Seattle City Council Finance & Housing Committee 9/15/2020

Welcome to order.

I'm Teresa Mosqueda, chair of the committee.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

Chair Mosqueda?

Present.

Vice Chair Herbold?

Here.

Council President Gonzalez?

Here.

Council Member Lewis?

Present.

Council Member Strauss?

Present.

Council Member Morales?

Council Chair, that is five present.

Thank you very much, Madam Clerk, and thank you very much, Farideh Cuevas, for folks who have not had the pleasure of having this meeting on their calendar for a while.

Just want to remind people that our clerk is Farideh Cuevas from our team.

Thank you so much for helping shepherd us through these committees and getting us all prepared.

We have a full committee.

Today, so I want to thank our council colleagues for joining us.

We will start with public comment, and then we will have two items on today's agenda.

We will have a briefing and discussion and possible vote on the Bird Bar transfer property.

We will hear from Deputy Mayor Raganathan, Director Estefa from the Office of Planning and Community Development, and Director Mantilla from the Department of Neighborhoods.

Also from Andrea Koppen from Bird Bar Place, and Lish Woodson from the Council Central Staff.

Then we will have a briefing on the Transportation Network Committee.

Sorry, we'll have a briefing on the Transportation Network Company Minimum Wage and Labor Compensation Standards.

We'll have a briefing from the Office of Labor Standards and Karina Bull and Amy Gore from Central Staff.

That is our agenda.

I think before we move on, hearing no objections, our agenda will be adopted for today.

Hearing no objections, the agenda is adopted.

Let's move on to public comment.

Today we have a handful of folks who have signed up for public comment.

I'll pull up that sheet here momentarily.

I will remind folks that we are working in real time to try to accommodate all of the growing pains that come with working remotely and we continue to strive to make sure that everyone has an opportunity to provide public testimony.

Today we are lucky that we will be able to have the full two minutes for folks to provide public testimony.

Folks at this time we have a handful of folks signed up more than We have more than 50 people signed up.

I will endeavor to get through as much public testimony as possible.

At first, we will open it up for 30 minutes of public testimony, and if we need to go longer, I will then extend public comment.

Again, you will hear a 10-second timer.

That will be your notification to wrap up your comments and to make sure that you do get your last word in.

I just want to double-check here.

I'm sorry for the interruption.

For the clerks and IT folks, I'm looking at the sign-in sheet.

I want to confirm that I'm looking at the right sheet.

Is this the right sheet that has 54 people signed up, or is that from a different meeting?

That is correct.

OK.

The bottom tab says a slightly different title, but we will go with that first sheet there.

So 54 people signed up.

Two minutes, you will hear a chime at 10 minutes, or 10 seconds, that's your notification to wrap it up.

Please do hang up the line and listen in on our other listen in options.

You will be asked to state your name, and please keep your comments related to items on today's agenda or on our work plan.

At this point, let's go ahead and get started with the first three speakers, Peter Kuehl, Ahmad Mohamed, and Noreen Fofana.

Peter, good morning.

And I believe you need to push star six to unmute yourself, folks.

So if you're in the queue, please push star six to unmute yourself.

Peter, are you with us?

Yes, I'm here.

Wonderful.

Go ahead, Peter.

All right, thank you very much, council members.

My name is Peter Quill.

I'm a Uber and Lyft driver.

I've been driving since 2014, and also a president of the driver's union affiliated with Tunister Local 117. And I thank them a lot, and I thank the city council for bringing this forward.

It's very fair.

It's been a long, long waiting.

a long four, six years campaign in order to get into this point.

We are organizing always to fight about the cut that is going on through these six years from November, where it come to less than a half, where they cut it for now.

Today, we are delivering our petition, signed by more than 1,600 drivers with four domains in it.

And one of the issues that we raise is raise payment per mile.

And also we need transparency in a company commission.

And also in a five dollar period, short trip minimum.

And also we are asking to hand the unpaired vehicle age limit, which was 12 years before.

Right now, it's only five years, the black SUV.

Those are very expensive car, where somebody buy them $57,000.

And we will appreciate if you help the driver.

So the driver payment is so low.

And thank you very much.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you.

We appreciate your time.

Thank you, Peter.

Ahmad, welcome.

The next person is Ahmad Mohamed.

Oh, yes.

Thank you very much.

Council members, Council President and Council Chair, my name is Ahmad Mohamed and I am an Uber and Lyft driver, also a chairman of Somali American Driver Association.

We support strongly drivers union demand.

And since I have been driving Uber and also closely working to the drivers, we had a lot of complaints from the day.

I remember the day I was starting driving Uber, I had like to receive an 80% of the customer base.

And every single day, When I wake up and I try to sign in for my, I mean, just to drive, I just always realize that it's in action required.

And that is lowering, taking down and down and down for the pay.

We just supposed to just work.

We are really investing in this company, but they are treating us and they are not sharing with us at all.

They are always, they try to hide whatever the customer pays.

They hide, absolutely.

And you will never ever see the same amount for the two trips you take.

One, it's totally down, they kill you.

And the other one, they just, you know, give you a little bit close what the agreement was.

And the other one, again, they kill you and they will never ever just make fair whatever the customer needs and all that.

I remember a lot of last time, I just picked up a portrait from an airport.

And I dropped off the last one to Queen and North.

And they charge $128.

And they pay me $38.

I asked them why this happened.

I am the one who just had a very bad tragedy in front of Seattle.

So why is this happening?

They say, this is what we are bringing.

Just take or leave it.

So we need, please, this happened.

And we need it to stay.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, and Norene, good morning.

Norene.

Please go ahead.

Hello, Council Member, can you hear me?

Yes, we can, thank you.

Good morning, Council Member.

My name is Norene Adam Pufana.

I'm an Uber and Lyft driver.

I've been driving for five years now.

And I support the driver union fair share demand.

We are drivers and we are in the pandemic.

And as drivers, we are out there in the front line, like all other essential workers, risking our lives, working extra time with no pay at all, just to protect ourselves and our passengers from the virus as we skip rides to clean our cars.

Doing that, we don't get any pay.

We skip rides and clean our cars disinfected just to protect ourselves and our passengers.

And we don't get paid for that.

So we plead with you to please help us let this bill go through.

and let us get a fair share from this, I mean, job we've been doing.

Drivers are majority from diverse community of black and brown people.

So, I mean, getting this fair share, too, for our community is part of the racial equity.

Thank you very much, council members.

Help us get this.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

The next three people will be Vasil Denev, Michael Wolfe, and Adema Durkay.

Do remember to push star six to unmute yourself.

And to try to get through some more folks today, we're going to do a minute and 30 seconds.

So if the clock could be set to a minute and 30 seconds from here forward, that would be great.

Vasil, good morning.

Good morning, Vasil.

I see you are still on mute.

Oh, perfect.

Go ahead, please.

Okay.

Good morning, council members.

Thank you for hearing me.

I came in this country 17 years ago, seven of those years.

I work for Uber and Lyft.

I came here because of the American dream.

For me, what is the American dream?

The American dream is to wake up every morning and know that today is going to be better than yesterday.

Unfortunately, for the last few years, it doesn't happen.

I don't know how it happens.

The price in Seattle and in the country goes up, but the price Uber and Lyft pay us, staying absolutely the same numbers, never mind how much they charge the customers.

Obviously, after so many years, we ask them to pay us fairly.

They don't do that.

Obviously, they don't gonna do that without a rebutter who will tell them to help the drivers.

Please, counselors, be our rebutter and make Uber job great again.

Let the American dream be alive again.

Just help us, please.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Michael Wolfe, good morning.

And you're still on mute, Michael.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Hi, this is Michael Wolfe.

Can you all hear me?

Yes, we can.

Thanks.

Hi, my name is again Michael Wolfe.

I'm the executive director of Drive Forward.

And I will start by saying that DriveForward does support a minimum earning standard for rideshare drivers.

We always have and we always will.

However, any rideshare minimum earning standard that involves an ongoing utilization rate as part of the measurement of that earning standard is a non-starter for us.

The similar system to the system being proposed here in Seattle was enacted in New York City.

And in New York City, it caused the companies to restrict access to the platforms for the drivers, resulting in nearly 16,000 drivers losing their jobs.

Those drivers that couldn't meet high-trip standards enforced by the companies were only given 11 scheduled hours per week, not enough to earn a living wage.

According to reports in Vice.com and other news sources, Drivers reported working longer hours and making less money under this type of system.

They also reported sleeping in their cars just to make sure they got enough trips to meet the high trip standards to maintain access to the apps.

This is not a system that will work in Seattle.

We wanna make sure that the council understands this, and we would ask them to remove ongoing driver utilization rates from this system.

Thank you.

Thanks, Michael.

Adema, good morning.

And just star six to unmute yourself.

Adema, we still cannot hear you.

Star six to unmute.

I'll read the next three names as well as you're unmuting.

Um, Ahmed Ali, Shookshine Bonwit, and um, Tuscalgee Abra.

Adama, uh, have we unmuted you?

Okay.

I'm sorry.

I'm not able to unmute you from here.

If you can hear us, we will keep you on the line and we'll get you back in.

The next, the next person is Ahmed Ali.

Good morning.

I see you are on the line.

You can go ahead and unmute.

Okay.

Wonderful.

I hear you.

Go ahead.

Yes, thanks.

Good morning.

This is Dr. Ahmed Ali.

I am honored to speak to the council members this morning and the council president.

I want to thank you for this opportunity.

I am an independent pharmacy owner.

I follow Kelo Station Pharmacy in Southeast Seattle.

one of the only black-owned independent pharmacies in the state of Washington.

I'm also the current president of Somali Health Board, which is an organization that empowers the community in addressing health disparities, working with the health systems.

I wanted to briefly talk to the council members about our experiences we had with the Uber and Lyft drivers and some of the social determinants of health that have negatively impacted in terms of unfair pay.

At Somali Health Board, we know the drivers deeply.

So many of our drivers are from diverse communities, from immigrant communities, working long hours to support their families.

And during the COVID time, Somali Health Board has taken extra time and extra work and extra effort to ensure that we are talking to our communities in prevention of COVID.

as well as making sure they're getting treatments and screenings.

The Uber drivers and Lyft drivers from our communities have played a significant role to making sure that they are following appropriate and needed services to ensure that they stay healthy.

I want to say that, and I really want to reiterate that we stand with the drivers for community, in our community, for fair pay.

Thank you very much, Dr. Adama.

If you're with us still, you're still welcome to speak.

Shushain, are you with us?

Yes.

Welcome.

Good morning.

Good morning.

Please go ahead.

Good morning.

My name is Shushain Banwet.

Originally, I'm from India, and I am Uber black driver.

I started with the Uber 2013 and started with the Lyft about three, four years ago.

So I support the driver's union fair pay proposal.

Why drivers need pay raise?

Because everything compared to six years, seven years ago, everything is 30, 40% going up is up and our pay is cut by 40 to 50%.

We have no benefit whatsoever.

No sick leave, no paid vacation, no 401k, no medical.

We have to pay our own insurance, repair, fuel, business licenses, cleaning, everything.

The insurance 2013 was under $4,000 full insurance on my SUV.

Now I'm paying $6,000 for the year.

So Uber and Lyft, they just care about how they can make money.

So this time we need help from the city, Uber and Lyft and public help.

We like to get some pay raise and we like us to treat as a human, not as a slave, please.

Thank you very much.

Have a good day.

Thank you very much.

Tskagi, good morning.

Tskagi will be followed by Reverend Angela Ying, Mohamed Diallo, and Jamel Jada.

Tizaki, good morning.

Go ahead.

Just star six to unmute yourself.

I see you're still on mute.

Tizaki, just star six.

There you go.

Welcome.

Good morning.

Please go ahead.

Tuskegee.

Okay, we will come back to you if you can hear me.

Hello.

Hi, please go ahead.

Thank you.

Yep, you're up.

Tuskegee.

Okay, I can hear you.

We will get you in next if you are still working on mute.

We can we heard you for a second there.

The next person is Reverend Angela Yang.

Welcome, Reverend.

Are you in star six to unmute?

There you are.

Thank you.

Good morning, council members.

I am the Reverend Angela Ying, senior pastor at Bethany United Church of Christ, working with BIPOC communities on the South end and all throughout the city, as our members and drivers are in all of your districts.

I stand in solidarity with Uber Lyft drivers and the drivers union in the struggle for fair pay and fair living wages.

As I've shared their stories, they are essential workers risking their lives.

And you have the privilege of listening to a few of the stories yet over 30,000 drivers are licensed in Martin Luther King County.

The majority people of color and immigrants who pay their taxes yet who are excluded from the protections of traditional labor laws.

Our drivers earn on a good day a mere $9 or so, which is unacceptable and not even close to a fair living wage.

especially as Seattle is the first city in our country to pass the $15 minimum wage, thanks to our council members Shama Sawant and the People's Movement.

With COVID-19, our drivers are indispensable as frontline workers who transport the sick patients to clinics and hospitals, our elderly to the medical appointments and ensure health care, and grocery store workers get to their jobs on time.

They all help us in our communities.

We ask that you lead and make sure our Uber Lyft drivers receive TMC fair pay, fair and living wages to counter the current inequities in our communities and support our drivers with fair pay.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

And just want to check to see if Tasagi is still with us.

Next person would be Mohamed Diallo.

After that.

Welcome, Mohamed.

I see you're on the line.

Please star six to unmute yourself.

Hello?

Please go ahead.

Hello, how are you?

Good, thanks, how are you?

My name is Mohamed Diallo.

I'm doing well, thanks.

Thank you for helping us.

My name is Mohamed Diallo.

I've been driving Uber and Lyft three years ago, and I'm demanding for the fair pay Why?

Because the cost of live in Washington here is too high.

I used to live in an apartment.

It was like 900 two bedroom.

Now you go up to 1800, which is too much.

We drive now with Uber and Lyft too much hours since this COVID-19 and we are not even making half money we used to make before.

That means we work double more than before.

So Also, one more thing, Uber and Lyft are charging a little bit more and giving driver less.

We are the ones who take care of our car maintenance.

We pay insurance.

We take care of everything.

So which is unacceptable.

We need a little bit more money to get more rates.

If possible, if you guys can help us, that would be very grateful.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Jamal Jada, followed by Matthew Berndine, Bashir Hassan, and Don Greery.

Jamal, good morning.

Good morning.

Excellent.

First of all, thank you, the Seattle City Council, for giving us time to listen to our concert.

My name is Jamal Jada.

I'm a member of Driver Union.

I support the Driver Union for Fair Pay.

I've been driving for six and a half years for Uber and Lyft.

What I've observed with the decreasing fare pay from time to time, at the meantime, as all of us know, the cost of living and expenses increasing from year to year.

Especially year of 2020 is not an easy year with COVID-19 pandemic that took many lives and created uncertainty in our community.

Unfortunately, Uber and Lyft failed to help in this difficult time.

So the city council should know.

Drivers are taking extra time that I'm paid to clean their cars to make sure our riders are comfortable and safe.

Drivers' expenses are increasing for maintenance of their cars and tools, so much with no help from Uber and Lyft.

Drivers are the front runners by giving rides like nurses, doctors, patients from their homes to hospitals and vice versa.

We contributed so much for Uber and Lyft to grow fast and become billionaires and happy.

Unfortunately, both companies are getting very greedy and undermine driver's rights and fair pay.

Undersigned drivers cannot afford to feed their families and extend to cover their needs.

Therefore, who may consult, take a step to help helpless driver at least to raise fair pay as soon as possible.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Matthew, good morning.

Please go ahead.

Hi, my name is Matthew Burdine, and I support the TNC Fair Pay thing, and I've been driving for Lyft just about a year now.

I've driven in between jobs and also to supplement my income, so I've driven both full-time and part-time.

But yeah, with my time with Lyft, I've seen them, I've already seen them use divide and conquer techniques to divide full-time drivers from part-time drivers.

But I refuse to be divided because no matter how many hours someone drives, we all need a raise.

Excellent.

Thank you so much.

Bashir, good morning.

Oh, sorry, Matthew, did I cut you off?

Okay.

Thank you, Matthew.

Bashir, good morning.

Hello, good morning.

My name is Bishar Hassan.

I do support driver union pay.

I was driving Uber and Lyft for the last five years.

Since then, my earnings were going down while Uber and Lyft earnings were going up.

So as Seattle cost of living is increasing, ours is decreasing.

So we are requesting the distinguished ladies and gentlemen of the great city of Seattle, city council, who always stand up for the working men and women in this great city of Seattle of which we Uber and Lyft drivers also live to enjoy our fair share so that we get what we work for.

And finally, today is my proudest moment to call Seattle home because our dreams are coming true after six years of struggle.

I thank everybody and I think Aluta continues.

Thank you very much.

Thank you for your time.

Don, good morning.

Hi, Don.

Just star six to unmute yourself.

Good morning.

Go ahead.

Don, you are unmuted.

It's your turn if you're able.

Okay.

Apologies, Don.

We are going to keep you on the line.

If you're still with us, we will come back to you.

Can you hear me?

And the next three speakers will be Fawzi Ali, Rebecca Smith, and Katie Wilson.

Fawzi, good morning.

Just start six on mute, and you're ready to go.

Yes, thank you, council members.

My name is Fawzi Ali.

I'm from the Oma community, and I support the driver union expedition for several years.

Drivers have been fighting during these thousands of drivers with driver union.

The demand for fair pay, that's a big question.

Justice is more valuable now than ever for immigrants.

Drivers on the front line of pandemic and the majority of full-time drivers are African immigrants from places like Ethiopia, Ethiopia, Somalia, Kenya, and many more.

So it's hard to put food on the table for especially large families or those who have five, six kids, living in two bedrooms with eight households, we really need that fair pay.

Also, actually, it's very hard for the parents to get their kids to school with proper clothing.

The payment that they get is not even for their food.

They can't pay for their rent.

they're still struggling.

And also the housing authorities, and they see that if they are applying for housing, they see what they are making, and it looks like very high, but they don't have money, and they're not qualified to get the housing.

And thank you so much, appreciate it.

Thank you for your testimony this morning.

Good morning, Rebecca Smith.

Good morning, Rebecca.

Just star six to unmute.

Hello.

Perfect.

Good morning.

Good morning, council members, and thanks for the opportunity to speak today.

My name is Rebecca Smith, and I'm the director of the Work Structures Project at the National Employment Law Project, and NELP is a member of the Fair Share Seattle Coalition.

We strongly support the Fair Share plan to raise driver pay You know, we talk with drivers and their organizations across the country on a daily basis, and they all tell us the same thing.

Driver pay is their number one priority.

And you've heard from drivers this morning who are seeing their pay arbitrarily changed and arbitrarily slashed and are having really extreme difficulties making ends meet at the same time that they're risking their health and their very lives during the pandemic.

Seattle has the opportunity to make a real difference in drivers' lives and at the same time create a model for cities across the country.

Secondly, driver pay is a racial justice issue.

Drivers, the overwhelming majority of whom are people of color and immigrants, are earning far below even a minimum wage, disrupting an extremely exploitative pay structure.

moves us to step towards the larger goal of dismantling structural racism in our city and in our country.

I ask that with your vote, you make sure that Uber and Lyft drivers receive fair pay.

Thank you.

Thank you, Rebecca.

The next person is Katie Wilson.

Good morning, Katie.

And just star six to unmute yourself.

Okay, Katie, just star six unmute yourself.

Welcome.

Good morning.

Hi there.

Sorry about that.

My name is Katie Wilson and I'm speaking on behalf of the Transit Riders Union.

We are part of the fair share Seattle coalition and we strongly support the fair share plan.

Uber and Lyft drivers just like our public transit drivers are on the front lines of the COVID-19 crisis risking their health and their lives to provide transportation every day.

They deserve labor protections and a living wage.

But as it is, these drivers shoulder all the risk and often make less than the minimum wage.

As you've heard today, drivers' costs have been going up and up, but their pay is not.

Please pass this legislation and ensure that Uber and Lyft drivers in our city earn a living wage and the respect that they deserve.

Thank you.

Thank you very much, Katie.

Folks, we have about 13 more people signed up.

I think if I move the timer to one minute, we can extend our public comment by 15 minutes and try to get through everybody who is present today.

If there's no objection, the public comment will be extended by 15 minutes.

Hearing no objection.

We'll continue with public comment.

Thank you very much.

The next three people are Kenneth Ambi, Moulay Sharif, and Ahmad Farah.

Kenneth, good morning.

Just star six to unmute.

Kenneth, if you can hear me, we still see you are on mute on our end.

Just star six.

Okay.

I'm going to call the next person, Kenneth.

If you do get unmuted, please feel free to let us know.

We have Moulay Sharif.

Good morning.

Wonderful.

Go ahead, please.

Hello.

Good morning, everyone.

My name is Moulay.

I'm a listed driver and I support the union driver's demand for fair pay.

First, I would like to thank all the people from the community who are helping us today.

I hear their voices now talking, and it's really helping.

All I want to say that we are working for the community, and we're doing what we can to help out, and we're happy doing it with the efforts, with the extra time, with everything.

But on the other side, we're not getting paid enough for what we're doing.

I'm struggling this week with my daughter's birthday.

I don't know what to do next week.

You know, we don't want to get to this point that you're working every day and you cannot come up with little things for your family.

And I hope that this time, please, you really consider just to make some calculations and see how we are hurt, how we cannot make a decent living with these wages.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

The next person is Ahmed Farah.

Welcome.

Hi, my name is Ahmed Farah, and I'm with the Drivers' Union, and I'm calling in today to add my voice to all the voices that are calling today about the fair pay for drivers.

And it is, I think, more important than any other time that we would actually fight for all these drivers that are delivering our frontline workers, and also treat them as employees, because that's pretty much what we are.

Driving over the years for both Uber and Lyft, I experienced, you know, I watched, pretty much watched my day, you know, get slashed in half.

And I thank you for your support and I hope.

Thank you so much.

The next person is Haley.

Good morning, Haley.

Wonderful, please go ahead.

Hi, my name is Haley Pune.

I've been driving since October 2017, and I do not support the ordinance whatsoever.

I second to what Mr. Wolf said, who was with Drive Forward.

This does not actually correct our pay if our flexibility is going to be compromised because of it.

I believe that there's a different way to accomplish the same thing.

I'm not against higher pay.

But I'm against the pay, this type of pay that's going to undermine the very fabric of the business model of Lyft and Uber because it makes it completely unsustainable long-term.

I don't feel I should get paid when I'm not, quote, unquote, working.

It could threaten the fact that Lyft and Uber says, well, it's not sustainable, so we're going to leave Seattle.

Then no one's going to get paid.

It also has the ability to only cater to 5% of those drivers that are working 40 hours plus.

So...

Please continue.

Oh, so I don't feel like it is an overall solution that's going to help 95% of the drivers.

Because of that, I'm all about fair pay, but I'm not all about this $1.17.

I think it's deceptive of understanding what it really does, and there's better solutions to accomplish the same thing.

Thank you very much, Haley.

The next person is Bob Gulbranson, Aboukar Kanith, and Ahmed Moumi.

Bob, good morning.

Just star six to unmute.

Good morning.

Morning.

Hello.

Hello, good morning.

Yeah, for Robert Gulbranson.

Perfect, yes, please go ahead.

Yeah, it's your turn.

Okay, thanks.

Thanks for dealing with us.

Sorry about the confusion.

Let's restart your time, Robert.

Just a second.

My name is Robert Goldbronson.

I'm a member of the Drivers Union and I support the fare pay.

I've been a driver since 2014. Then our pay was base fare.

We had $250.

per mile fare was $2.70, per minute was $0.50, the minimum fare was $0.06, cancellation was $5.00.

Uber's commission was 20% of what the customer paid, and that was a fair pay, and the customers did not complain about the price.

They were happy to get a ride in five minutes with a nice, clean car.

Today, Uber takes 30% many times more of the customer's fare.

Uber had a fair price then, and I'm sure they can give us a fair price today.

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you very much for calling in.

Aboukar, good morning.

Great, you can go ahead now.

Okay, if you're still with us, please let us know.

I'm going to call the next three speakers.

Ahmed, Mumi, Abdi, Sheree, and Tamara Howie.

Hello.

Hi, please go ahead.

Wonderful.

Hi, my name is Abugar Kente.

Today I am speaking on CB 119876915-2000.

Thank you, Council President.

council members and council chair.

Before my decision to drive by chair, I work a minimum wage job.

I started off as a part-time driver because I had a full-time job as a program coordinator and a social worker.

You see, I love to help people, connect with them, offer my support and the knowledge I have to share.

Unfortunately, I was tired of dealing with the bureaucracy and not being able to express myself fully.

Now I am able to continue that same social work, but as a driver, and I do that at my own time, with a great pleasure and freedom.

Since then, I have fallen in love with owning my own business and making good money.

However, the government is imposing its will on us, restricting my HOP hours of operation.

Please consider our independence, our freedom, and our flexibility.

American Dream is also owning your own things, doing them at your own time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ahmed Mumin, please go ahead.

Yes.

Can you hear me?

Yes, we can.

Thank you.

My name is Ahmed Mumin.

I'm the executive director of the Seattle Rideshare Driver Association.

And I think this fair share initiative of the mayor is waste of public resources and it's a curse to the drivers.

And I just see white people playing around with poor immigrant drivers, dividing them into groups.

And I think that, mark your calendar, next year at this time, This fair share will bring no materialized benefit to the drivers, and it will only leave us in more debt because we are slaves of Uber and commodity of the Timsters.

And the mayor's office is the master here, making sure that we don't reach our maximum potential.

Therefore, we do not support this Fair Share Act in whole.

Thank you very much.

And the next person is Abdi.

Good morning.

Just star six to unmute.

Abdi, if you're still with us, please let us know.

The next person is Tamara Howie, followed by Anna Zevitz.

Abdi, can you hear me?

Just star six.

Okay.

Tamara, good morning.

Please, do you hear me?

This is Abdi Shireh.

Oh, so sorry, Tamara.

Just one second.

Let's have Abdi go first, please.

Abdi, please go ahead.

Thank you.

Also, thanks for the council president.

I'm Abdi Shireh with the chairman of the Seattle Rideshare Driver Association.

Actually, driver community are very frustrated on how the mayor's lip service drivers in regard to the fair share.

And I'm asking to city council to consider not support this fair share, because this fair share is short and rushing to the way the mayor has introduced that mayor has divided the drivers, cherry picking and creating a coalition, nothing to do with the driver issue.

And we're asking for, we have asked way back in September last year to ask, to meet as a driver, give us a chance.

And our concern is that we are not being given chance to speak with either even counsel.

So please, we're asking for not consider to this fair share because this fair share is a short and the mayor is a research and everything was COVID from New York.

And we're asking for to give us a time and to be

Thank you very much.

Tamara, sorry about the wait.

Please go ahead now.

We can hear you.

Go ahead, Tamara.

Okay, thank you, council members.

My name is Tamara Howley.

I'm a Seattle resident and Byrd Bar board member, and I am making a comment about the transfer of the building.

Bird Bar has been providing food, energy, housing, homelessness prevention, home repair, personal finances, and such for some time.

It's been essential to the community.

I can recall my family using Bird Bar services when I was a child.

Back then, it was known as Camp.

About, let's say, 20-something odd years later as an adult, I used Bird Bar services.

when I became a young single mother.

I believe Bird Bar has been providing services in the community for over 56 years.

Bird Bar has been and is still an anchor in this community and indispensable to Black the Black community and low income families.

The transfer is important to Black community and the low income families.

The building is historic landmark and a symbol of the Black community's place in Seattle.

it.

Tamara, I'm sorry that we didn't have more time.

I know that this is an important topic on our agenda today, so if you also want to send in the rest of your comments, that would be wonderful, but really appreciate what you did share and looking forward to that discussion.

Anna, good morning.

Hi, good morning.

Ana Zibar here from Disability Rights Washington, the Disability Mobility Initiative, formerly rooted in rights, and we are also part of the Fair Share Coalition.

As someone who has had low vision my whole life and hasn't been able to drive, Uber and Lyft have been really important to my life.

and my ability and other people's ability who can't drive to access our communities, especially when they're poorly served by transit.

But our mobility cannot depend on unsustainable and unjust wages of the drivers.

Disabled people who cannot drive must stand with the people whose hard work expands our access to our communities and support fair pay for the drivers.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

And the last three speakers this morning are Tadele Kabedi, Charles Finn, and Henry Garrett.

Tadele, good morning.

Good morning.

Just star six to unmute yourself.

Again, Tadele Kabedi.

Good morning.

Okay, if you're still with us, please let us know.

We will go on to Charles.

Charles, good morning.

Just star six to unmute yourself as well.

Hi, do you have me?

Yes, wonderful.

Thank you.

Well, I just want to take my minute to say that I've driven for Uber and Lyft for about four years.

And when I started, the rules were very straightforward.

I knew there wasn't going to be any more than 75% of my fair given to me and that's what they've done.

We choose to be independent contractors.

We choose this.

We're not deserving of extra benefits because basically we're our own business.

If you don't want this to happen, you simply don't have to sign up.

Or if you don't like it, then you can go get another job.

But to demand a minimum wage for someone that has their own business, just doesn't make sense and it won't be sustainable.

It didn't work in New York.

It's not going to work here and it'll actually hurt the drivers.

Thank you.

Thank you for waiting on the line.

Appreciate it.

Henry Garrett, our last speaker today.

Welcome Henry.

And just star six to unmute yourself.

Thank you.

Please go ahead, Henry.

Good morning.

And, uh, Thank you for allowing us to participate in this great democracy in America.

Uh, I'm Henry Garrett, uh, with the Washington state coalition of African community leaders, which also includes us all throughout the diaspora.

And thank you, uh, mayor and city council members, uh, for listening to us this morning.

Um, what I wanted to have comments on is the Uber driver and Lyft situation.

And, um, I wanted to comment that there are some specific things that we are definitely in favor of and then there's a couple of things we'd like to perhaps even facilitate a more in-depth discussion on.

In particular we are in support of the community driver's wage package and benefit package I guess as a toll when the Uber first came to Seattle and I believe it was 2012. where their mileage and their time was at a great introductory rate.

Henry, thank you so much for your testimony.

I believe you had a few more items on your public testimony list so I'm going to ask that you email us and I will also send you an email requesting that and then I'll send it out to the whole committee.

Folks, we got through our entire list today.

Thank you for all of the folks who called in for public testimony.

We'll continue to endeavor to make sure that the system runs smoothly given that there is a need to unmute yourself.

We know that it takes a few seconds so We'll continue to call names and try to get through everyone as we move forward.

At this point, that does conclude our public testimony for today.

Not seeing any additional folks that we called and getting themselves on the line.

So thank you so much to our friends from IIT and communications who've been helping shepherd us through that.

That concludes public testimony today.

Let's move on to the first item on our agenda.

Farideh, could you please read into the record our first item on today's agenda?

agenda item one, council bill 119886, an ordinance relating to the transfer of city property located at the 72218th Avenue, Seattle, Washington.

For briefing, discussion, and possible vote.

Thank you very much, Farideh, and welcome, everyone.

Today we have Deputy Mayor Raganathan, Director Asefa from Office of Planning and Community Development, Director Mantilla from Department of Neighborhoods, and Andrea Kaplan from Bird Bar Place on this item for today.

We also have with us Lish.

Good morning, Lish.

I wondered if you wanted to get us started and then we will have folks introduce themselves as they do comments.

Good morning, Lish Whitson from Council Central staff, and this is legislation that would transfer property in the Central District to its tenants since 1967. Bird Bar Place is a social services agency that's been in old Fire Station 23 since the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960s and has deep roots in the community.

I thought I would just share a map to let you know where the property is located and then shift it over to the executive to talk about the process.

So the property is located on 18th Avenue between East Cherry Street and East Columbia Street, just north of the Swedish Cherry Hill.

hospital complex and a couple blocks east, well, about six blocks east of Seattle University in the central area.

And there's been a lengthy process to develop the agreements to transfer this property, and I'll hand it over to the deputy mayor, if that's okay, to talk about the proposal.

Welcome, Deputy Mayor, and thank you, Lish.

Please go ahead, Deputy Mayor.

Good morning, Council Members.

I'm Shefali Ranganathan, Deputy Mayor.

It is my great pleasure to, on behalf of Mayor Durkin, to transmit the legislation to permanently transfer former Fire Station 23 to Bird Bar Place.

Bird Bar Place has really been a pillar of the Central District community, serving families for the last several decades.

with housing assistance, food access, energy assistance, and financial counseling.

Originally a camp, then Centerstone, and now Bird Bar Place, they have been steadfast in their mission to support the community.

We've been so pleased to be working with them to make Fire Station 23 their permanent home.

I do want to acknowledge Andrea Coppen, who you will hear from later on, on her partnership and a partnership with the Bird Bar Place.

Last layer on direction from Mayor Durkin, six departments got together, FSOPCD, DAWN, Office of Housing, and a few other departments to develop very specific criteria to help guide the transfer of these mutually offsetting facilities to community.

This is part of Mayor Durkin's continued investment in supporting community building.

As you know, the EDI, the Equitable Development Initiative, has invested millions to support this effort around community wealth building.

We also have $15 million dedicated from the MRSA Mega Block Sale to help fight displacement.

And just recently, the EDI has a $5.8 million RFP to support capital investments, capacity building, as well as COVID response.

There is now legislation pending before the council related to establishing a permanent EDI board.

Bar Bar Place is one of several transfers that we will be transmitting to council that will transfer city property over to community-based organizations in the next few weeks.

I will leave it to directors to go through some of the details, but thank you for the opportunity to discuss this important initiative today.

Thank you, Deputy Mayor.

Welcome, directors.

Please go ahead.

Thank you, Council President and Council Members for having us here.

We are actually really excited because this is the culmination of and the beginning of a major initiative to really empower community organizations and build wealth.

As the Deputy Mayor explained, we have been working for almost a couple of years now to one, have a consistent criteria by which city can transfer its properties to community organizations.

This has been an ask that has been around for quite some time.

About three or four years ago, actually, community organizations came to us and asked that we have a consistent process.

We facilitated that through a consultant to actually help us define what are the key elements that we need to consider in the transfer of properties.

Mayor Durkan directed us almost 18 months ago that we need to have that consistent process completed and begin the transfer process.

As the Deputy Mayor expressed, the six departments came together, signed a memorandum of agreement, around eight very specific criterias that apply to every organization and every property, and that we go through that due diligence to determine eligibility at the end of our process.

And we're excited that Bird Bar is the first of the gate, in part because they have a critical timeline issue that we've been working with them.

And we'll be coming to you with the Central Area Senior Center, the Phinney Ridge, and then a long-term lease for the Fire Station 6 as well in the next coming weeks.

So thank you for having us here, and we're actually really excited.

This process is moving forward.

Thank you.

Thank you, Director Acepa.

Appreciate it.

Director Mattia.

Yeah, thank you.

Council members.

Thank you.

Deputy mayor.

Just a reminder that there are 6 other ones that we are working through, including South Park neighborhood center.

I'm looking at council member Lisa there.

But also just want to reiterate my thank you to the community for keeping us on task on this.

And it's through your organization and voice and collaboration with the mayor that we've been able to move through this process.

So thank you to Bird Bar Place and Andrea specifically.

And I'll just leave it there so we can get to some of the questions.

Thank you.

Wonderful.

And we're really lucky to have Andrea here with us today.

Andrea, could you tell us a little bit more about your role and Bird Bar Place?

Excited you could join us today.

Thank you.

Thank you, council members.

So we did partner with the city.

It's been a multi-year process, almost a decade, but we're happy that we're at this place today.

You know, at Bird Bar Place, our vision is to achieve a vibrant and thriving black community.

And to do this, we're providing for the immediate needs of our most vulnerable in the city, as you've heard earlier, with safety net services.

We also work on policy and systems change at the state and federal level.

And we've been doing this work for over 56 years, since the birth of our organization during the Civil Rights Movement.

And Fire Station 23 became our home in the late 60s.

And there began our work for more, you know, to be more rooted in our community.

And this building is not only a means to create economic mobility for Black people, but for all of our vulnerable families and individuals in Seattle.

And we know that despite the pivotal role our organization and people have played in the cultural landscape of our city, our well-being as Black people, our preservation and sustainability have been overlooked at times in history and sometimes denied.

And so today offers an opportunity to invest in our sustainability.

And I thank you.

The creation of Central Area Motivation Program, now Bird Bar Place, we feel are living testaments to African-American history and the achievements of generations within our community.

It's not only about symbolism and visibility, but the tremendous amount of pride and value that we hold as a black people.

We've had educators and public servants and ministers and attorneys and businessmen and women journalists and philanthropists who've come out of the CD.

But because of gentrification, our history is in danger of eroding and eventually going away and opportunities for economic prosperity may be lost.

With this opportunity to stay in place, we'll be able to carry forward our stories through the programming and collaboration that we're planning.

As one of our CD clients put it, she's a senior, everything that I am and everything that I became is because of the CD and my life experiences in the CD.

And we want to ensure that stories like hers and those of our ancestors are carried forward for generations to come.

And so ultimately Fire Station 23 holds empowerment that reflects the legacy of the Black experience in Seattle and also of accomplishment and pride in overcoming the incredible obstacles we face as a people.

Acquiring Fire Station 23 will enable us to seismically retrofit the building make it ADA accessible and create larger meeting space for community groups and residents to gather as well as ensure economic mobility, community culture acknowledgment and preservation.

We see this transfer as a quest for social justice and racial equity.

Thank you, council members.

Thank you.

Thank you very much for that historical perspective as well as the work that you continue to do today.

I know that there are probably some questions from folks, but I just want to start by saying thank you for the decades worth of work that you've done to make this transfer possible today.

For the directors and deputy mayor, thank you.

on behalf of the mayor for being here and presenting this effort.

We know that you've been working on this diligently over the last few years.

I just want to note how excited we are.

We talked about this a little bit in council briefing yesterday, but we're really excited for this legislation to move forward given how much Burt Barr has nurtured and worked with the community, invested in our community and making sure that people have ownership to implement improvements and future plans is really critical.

For decades, you've already heard folks have offered food banks, have offered financial assistance, energy assistance, have worked to make sure that people who are in emergency situations get the support that they need so that their power doesn't get shut off, so that they can make ends meet.

And that includes our immigrant and refugee population, and it includes our elders in the community.

and vulnerable families.

So very excited that we are able to do this today.

We are very, I think, fortunate that this is one of several mutual and offsetting benefits sites or MLB sites that the city currently owns, as you heard Lish and the Deputy Mayor and the Directors talk about.

I think that this helps set a tone for future conversations.

I shouldn't say conversations.

We know that in late 2018, the And this today is our opportunity to make sure that the lease is in in alignment with what the council and the mayor have discussed with the organization.

And while it is past our March 2019 deadline that we originally thought of, as Andrea mentioned, excited to see this move forward today.

I look forward to the conversation and questions that folks might have.

The first question that I have though, Andrea, just for historical context, can you tell us a little bit more about how it was that the community ended up having the fire station to begin with?

Sure.

It was a process where we looked around.

It should be made known that our sibling organization, the Urban League, we got started under them.

So before we got our 501c3 designation, not only our home but our presence and where we had our programming was at the Urban League building on 14th and Yesler.

And as we were looking around at expanding and evolving our presence in the Central District of Seattle where you know the majority of Black folks lived in the 60s, we thought about being in close proximity with our other sibling organizations.

We had identified a few schools, churches, even synagogues.

and we discovered that the fire station was up for an opportunity.

And so it was, we worked with the city, we worked with community advocates, with other nonprofit organizations, our elected officials, and it was determined that we could repurpose Fire Station 23 to be used, and we were also supported with a grant from the state of Washington to be able to do that, and then it became our home in the late 60s.

Thank you for that.

Council colleagues, are there questions about this effort?

Any comments?

Council President, please go ahead.

Thank you, Chair Mosqueda and Andrean, Director Assefa, Director Mantilla, and Deputy Mayor for being with us this morning.

Really excited about finally seeing some meaningful progress here and moving forward and really am appreciative of the opportunity to consider this legislation today.

I had a quick question around the major renovation project.

And, you know, this is referenced in in luscious memo.

It's the last paragraph of the 2nd page, and it does make a reference that bird bar place is working on a major renovation project.

And in order to receive a state grant bird bar has to control the property, either through ownership or a long term lease.

And so.

This council bill will, will at least address that particular component.

And I was just wondering a couple of things is is 1, what, what, what are the state grant possibilities?

And if we could just get a little bit more information about that on the record, that would be great.

And then secondly, if it's not a state grant that is currently in the works, or maybe it is, is there anything that the city needs to do in terms of our legislative agenda to prioritize communicating to our state legislators and the governor the passage of this bill and our ongoing support for the development of this project and effort?

Thank you for that.

And that is what's driving the timeline is that we have a building communities fund grant that we were awarded in 2015 that we stand to lose.

Many of you might know that it was extended.

Um, our legislators from the 37th and the 43rd got together and helped extend the deadline, but they will not.

We've, we, it's been communicated over communicated that that extension will not be granted again.

And in addition to that, we have begun renovation plans.

We've been looking at how we can seismically retrofit the building and to ensure that it survives the next Nisqually-type earthquake, and adding an elevator, widening doorways and hallways to make it more accessible, and also modernizing the workspace.

In order to do that, we have to access that $1.5 million to begin the renovation.

We can't do that, as you said, until we own the building.

And so this action that we're taking today, and hopefully it passes out of committee and onto the full council and it does pass full council.

it will satisfy what Department of Commerce needs in order for us to move forward with those renovations and to be able to access the funds.

So thank you for highlighting that.

Absolutely.

And then just really quickly, just so we're all on the same page as to that deadline, since it is going through the council's legislative process, perhaps either you or Lish or anyone else on the line can remind us and the viewing public what that deadline is.

Yes, it is October.

and we know that 30 days after that, we need to complete paperwork and go through an additional process with the city, and that, again, satisfies the Department of Commerce's requirements.

Great.

Thank you so much.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you, Council President.

Are additional comments or questions, colleagues?

Council Member Herbold and Vice Chair to this committee, please go ahead.

I just want to first say I'm really, really excited that we're here to take this important step forward for the users of Bird Bar Place, as well as the broader community.

It is really important, again, not only for placemaking and for community black-led ownership of properties within the CD.

But it's also, as Council President Gonzalez just referenced, really important to allow us to move forward on the needed investments in the building.

And so this is just a Static that we're that we're here at this this this point today and thank the executive and thank the community members that have been pushing us to push you.

I'm just wondering if somebody on the panel could talk a little bit more about.

the one of the terms of the agreement, and that's the negative easement.

If you could just talk a little bit more about the purpose of the negative easement and how it would be, if necessary, it would be triggered and under what circumstances it might be triggered.

Deputy Mayor, is that something you're able to tell us?

I can speak to it, and also I think Director Asefa, if you want to add anything.

I think the idea there was to provide sort of flexibility for the organization, and each site is going to be different, to be able to continue to provide their services and expand the services if that's in their but also because many of these properties are located in communities that we have seen very rapid displacement, particularly in the central area.

If a future opportunity arises to do residential development, particularly affordable housing, that there is flexibility.

in sort of future agreements that sort of I think lives beyond sort of the current structure to be able to provide for affordable housing should there be a partnership ideally with the city and with the nonprofit.

So what triggers it, Council Member, would be in this case, and I hope I'm recalling it correctly, but Director Assefa will correct me if I'm wrong, is that if Bird Bar Place were to choose to expand for the purposes of residential uses, so housing, the negative easement would require that that housing be affordable in keeping with the city's objectives to ensure that people have affordable places to live in and that are rooted in their communities.

The only thing I'll add is, first, this is not a requirement.

It's just an option that is there.

Part of it, sort of the bigger picture is, as you know, we constantly struggle with finding places for affordable housing.

If there are any opportunities in the future, and if the organizations like Burbark Place are interested in what we're saying is let's put that option there in addition to you have an option to expand the existing services as well.

What would trigger a change or reversion?

I think one of the question is, if the entity in the organization changes its mission and instead of service provision, they choose to do something completely different, private enterprise or any other, then that would you know, require a reversion.

But specific to the negative easement, it's really to add that flexibility and option for affordable housing.

Director Assefa, you referenced a reversion.

If they decided to change their mission, what would that look like?

And what would the terms of the agreement require in that case?

That would be best answered by the lawyers, but basically the agreement outlines.

So in order to provide to meet the city, the state requirement of gifting of public funds, you have to have a public service that the city considers are And so what the Burbard is providing now is a public service, and that is consistent with that requirement.

If that mission changes in any significant way to do something other, you know, private enterprise, then that would trigger the reversion because it does not meet the requirements to provide the public services as defined in the agreement.

But the decision to build housing would not be considered something to trigger that reversion.

So what the agreement says is as long as the housing is affordable up to 80% area median income, it does not.

And there's an option to also have a combination of services on the ground floor, housing above, as long as it is affordable housing.

Thank you.

I see Council Member Strauss' hand.

I just want to give Andrea a second.

Do you have any comments or concerns about that element of the contract that you want to flag for us?

I don't, but I will say, quite frankly, we had differences in opinion about that language being there, but we feel pretty absolute that we'll be around for another 56 years and that we'll be providing the same services well into the future.

Okay.

Thank you for flagging that, Vice Chair Herbold.

Councilmember Strauss, please go ahead.

Thank you, Chair Mosqueda.

I just wanted to share my thanks to the Deputy Mayor, Director Mentea, Director Assefa.

Director Assefa and I spoke about this earlier this week, and many thanks also to you, Andrea.

This work is incredible, and this is a great historic change, and I'm excited to be able to vote in favor of this.

Thank you all for your great work.

Thank you very much Councilmember Strauss.

We also have Councilmember Lewis who is here as an attendee today.

I'll welcome any comments from you Councilmember Lewis.

I think it's already been said by the committee members.

I'm really excited, not just about this project, but all of the other ones in the pipeline.

This is at the foundation of how we do place making and community building in the city and just a great example of what we need a lot more of in our urban planning and our investments.

So super excited to vote on this today.

Thank you very much, Council Member Lewis.

I do have a question about the pros and cons or the benefits, the discussion that may have gone into an outright transfer versus a long-term lease.

And we know that there's many situations where cities have used 99-year leases instead of an outright transfer.

And I think from the little that I know about housing development and getting future loans for improving existing structures to the lender, a 99-year lease doesn't really make that much of a difference between whether it's a sort of a long-term lease or whether it's an outright transfer.

Andrea, you're welcome to chime in on this too in terms of what your preferences were, but really wondering what is the background behind whether or not we had considered a long-term lease such as a 99-year lease versus a direct transfer.

Can folks comment on that?

I'll start.

So we did initially when we began this conversation with Mayor Greg Nichols' office, it was about...

This started with Greg Nichols' office.

That's how long this has been going.

I just want to make that note.

Yes.

For the record, yes.

And our board and I discussed really the value in either one of those.

And we initially started down the path of a long-term lease.

But we soon realized through testing the market, doing our fundraising, our capital campaign feasibility study, that a lot of private foundations and funders were not necessarily keen to that.

While our public partners who were going to be funding this project were okay with that, a lot of the private foundations were not.

So we felt you know, we needed to look at, and we discussed it with city staff over time, um, you know, the pros and cons, not just the city, but the community.

And eventually Burr Bar Place felt strongly that given what we were seeing with gentrification, given the idea and the philosophy around ownership and agency and, um, the higher probability of being able to raise resources from private, um, sources to renovate the building, that owning the building outright is, was the better path for us.

I'm not sure what additional conversations that were had over those administrations since Mayor Nichols' administration about lease versus ownership.

Thank you very much.

Go ahead, Director.

If I could just add in the concept of ownership versus 99-year lease is certainly some conversation that we've had with individual organizations as to what better suits their needs at the moment in time.

given a range of factors, including their organizational capacity to be able to take on some of these commitments.

But I will talk a little bit about kind of the issue of ownership as it is core to building community wealth and as a priority of what we've talked about, not in just this process, but the mayor's outline in community wealth building.

And then certainly Director Assefa in his EDI program, which is essentially the ownership of asset is what allows you to leverage other types of kind of community wealth benefits to it.

And so that's been a central component of how we've thought about this.

That said, you know, the organizational capacity, readiness, if you will, around these conversations is very real.

And so we don't we also have in the conversations been very clear and open with other organizations about understanding what how ready are they in terms of capacity to maintain a building to do these types of activities.

So, Director Assefa, do you want to add to that?

Sure.

The only two things I'll add is, one, I mentioned about three or four years ago, actually, the community organizations came to us and asked for a transfer process, whether it's Fire Station 6 or Central Area Senior Center, At a time where the city did not have a consistent process, but the transfer was the core ask.

That's when we started engaging the community organizations as well as consultants to help us shape a consistent process.

The second part of it, so for example, on the EDI funding, Bird Bar has received a million dollar for capital improvements.

But they cannot spend it on a building that the city owns at the time.

And they are still waiting to get that release of a million-dollar EDI fund.

If it is transferred, then they are able to utilize that.

That was one consideration as well for Burbark Place in terms of the transfer.

And then the bigger, I think, emphasis is what Andres said.

There is no better wealth building than ownership.

you're still, as a lease, you are actually not an owner of a property, especially land and property.

As we learn more about the causes of poverty, especially for BIPOC populations, ownership is a critical element of that, whether it's psychologically and practically as well.

Thank you all very much.

Are there additional comments or questions on this agenda item?

Lish, anything else to add?

No, thank you.

Okay.

I'm not seeing any additional hands.

Andrea, any final comments or you feel like you got all your comments in?

I do.

Thank you for the space.

No, I just wanted to say thank you for the space and thank you for your commitment to us and to our community.

Absolutely.

You're welcome.

Anytime to have space in our committee and also happy that we are actually creating physical space for the community to to be able to continue this good work.

Hearing no additional comments or questions, I move the committee recommends passage of Council Bill 119886. Second.

Wonderful.

It's been moved and seconded.

Are there any further comments?

Hearing none, will the clerk please call the roll on the passage of the bill?

Chair Mosqueda?

Aye.

Vice Chair Herbold?

Aye.

Council President González?

Aye.

Council Member Lewis?

Yes.

Council Member Strauss?

Yes.

Madam Chair, that is a five in favor.

Okay, Farideh, let me just double check.

Council Member Lewis, are you an official member of the committee?

I believe I am.

Okay.

Yes.

Excellent.

Thank you.

I heard something about being in attendance as an observer today.

So thank you so much.

It's been so long since we met.

I wanted to double check.

That is a unanimous vote.

We do have five eyes.

We will be moving this.

this piece of legislation to full council for their final passage on September 21st, and the motion carries.

Thank you so much, and congratulations all.

Let's move on to the second item of business before we do.

Council Member Lewis, my sincere apologies for the question.

I hope that I didn't offend you.

I know that we've been meeting remotely for so long that when I saw that you were in attendance, As a, just listening in, I thought maybe I had misread my notes, so apologies for that, Council Member Lewis.

No, no, not at all.

Perfectly fine.

Yeah, actually, it made me think, like, wait, am I actually on this committee?

It's been such a long time.

It's been a long year, yes.

Thank you.

My strategy was, I'm going to wait for the clerk to call the roll, and if she calls for me, I'll be like, okay, I'm on this committee.

Okay, excellent.

Well, thank you to Farideh for keeping us on track here.

And again, thanks to the presenters, really appreciate it.

Thank you, Andrea.

Congratulations.

Please tell the community who's been working on this for so long how much we appreciate them.

All right, let's move on to the second item of business.

Could the clerk please call the roll on the second item into the record?

Agenda item number two, council bill one.

and 1-9876, an ordinance relating to transportation network company driver labor standards, establishing minimum labor and compensation standards for transportation network company.

Okay, thank you very much.

We have with us the Office of Labor Standards and Central Staff.

Why don't I ask you to introduce yourselves real quick with your titles?

That'd be great.

And then we will turn it over to Central Staff to walk us through the materials.

Good morning.

I'm the interim director of OLS.

I'm an analyst on central staff as well.

Wonderful.

Thank you very much.

We are here to talk about transportation network companies and the protections as it relates to a fair wage for the drivers.

We heard a lot about that.

in public testimony today.

Before we ask central staff to walk us through, I just wanted to say to Director John and your team at the Office of Labor Standards how much we appreciate all of you and your entire team, including Sarah Laird, who was a dear friend of many of us on Council.

Council President spoke at her memorial.

I had the opportunity to work closely with her on farm labor standards issues for the last decade or so.

And her incredible work is a true legacy that stands on its own.

And we know how much she was a pillar of the good work that the Office of Labor Standards does and that you all continue that good work today.

So in her memory, we will look forward to having this conversation today.

Workers and continuing to uplift all that she fought for, especially for immigrants and refugees and vulnerable workers across our state and especially here in our city.

We thank the Office of Labor Standards for your good work, and we really send our heart out and deep appreciation to her family and her friends, who I know are continuing to mourn the tragic loss of her life.

And we really appreciate you, Solidarity, Sarah, and Sarah Esta Presente.

Let's continue.

Let's have central staff tell us more about the bill in front of us today, and then we will have an opportunity to hear from Office of Labor Standards and our council colleagues.

Hi.

As you noted, this bill is establishing a minimum compensation standard for TNC drivers along with other protections.

And I actually don't have a full presentation prepared for today because Office of Labor Standards has generously offered to share their presentation that they've already shared with the council and members of the public for this committee.

So I will turn it over to Karim now to provide that information.

Thanks, Karina.

I'll just load the PowerPoint up here.

And can everyone see that all right?

Great.

So I was asked to sort of give a quick overview of what's contained in the legislation.

We provide a similar presentation last month, so I'll try to keep it brief, but happy to go into any more detail that council members would like at any point.

So the first thing I want to just level set for everyone, this is a slide that folks have probably seen numerous times now, but it's important because I'll be using some of these terms today.

Driver time is divided into three phases.

There's P1, available or available platform time, which is the time when a driver is waiting to get a trip request.

There's P2, and that is when the driver has received a trip request and is driving to the passenger location.

And finally, P3, which is when the driver is driving the passenger to their destination.

And these terms are in the legislation itself, and I'll be referring to them today.

And one point on this is it's important to remember that a driver cannot be in P3 doing the part of the work that we as members of the community as passengers experience without first being in P1 and P2.

And furthermore, the companies rely on drivers being in P1 in order to deliver their service to passengers.

They compete by having low wait times, which requires drivers in P1.

And so we thought it was critical to ensure that drivers are paid for all of their time when they were waiting for a passenger, when they're waiting for a trip request, when they're driving to the passenger location, finally, when they're driving the passenger.

So with that sort of set stage set, Let's dive into the ordinance itself.

The ordinance covers TNC drivers who perform TNC services in Seattle.

There's a little nuance there.

If a ride begins in Seattle and ends outside of Seattle, the entire ride will be covered by the ordinance and the pay policy.

If the ride begins outside of Seattle and comes into Seattle, only the portion of the ride that is within the city boundaries will be required to be paid at the minimum compensation level in the ordinance.

For TNCs themselves, quite a bit simpler.

Any TNC that provides TNC services in Seattle and reports more than 200,000 rides, sorry, trips in the prior quarter will be covered by the ordinance as transmitted by the executive.

The pay policy itself is divided into two components, a time component and a mileage component.

So there is a per minute rate and a per mile rate.

And those are designed to address two different buckets of compensation.

The first one, time, is compensation for Seattle's minimum wage at the Schedule 1, the large employer level, at $16.39 currently.

The mileage component is designed to compensate for the reasonable expenses drivers incur, which is both the cost of just driving your car around, so the cost of the vehicle, gas, maintenance, those types of things, as well as what we call non-mileage expenses.

So these are certain benefits or costs that that many employees have compensation for.

So health insurance and employer-side payroll taxes are examples of those, as well as some other taxes and licensing fees that drivers must incur.

So those are the two components.

Let's talk about what they mean in terms of numbers.

So I mentioned the time component is Seattle's minimum wage of $16.39, but made into a permanent amount.

That's $0.56.

And the mileage is $1.17.

There's some complexity here.

If you take 1639 and divide it by 60, it doesn't equal $0.56.

It equals about $0.27.

But because the pay standard only attaches to the time spent in P3 when a driver has a passenger, we have increased that $0.27 amount to cover all of their working time, both P1 and P2.

The factor of increase is roughly 2x, because they spend about half the time with a passenger in the car.

So we increase it to make sure they're paid for all their time.

The same principle applies for the mileage.

It's increased to make sure all their miles are compensated.

The factor of increase is a little different there, but the same idea is present there as well.

So that's the core of how the pay policy works.

We have a number of other protections in there to ensure that this functions well.

I've highlighted them here.

So we have tip protection, so that any tip paid by the passenger needs to go to the driver, and the TNC companies cannot use tips as an offset against their minimum compensation obligations.

Any cancellation fee that is charged to a passenger for canceling a trip goes to the driver.

We also have some transparency provisions such that both drivers and passengers receive detailed ride receipts and that drivers get pay statements every time they are paid, detailing what trips they did and what they were paid.

We have a standard record keeping provision of three years and a proposed effective date of January 1st, 2021. The next two slides, I'm not going to go over in detail.

They're here in case there are questions on these, and we can circle back.

But we've modeled a number of trips and what drivers make now.

You can see those listed here, downtown to Capitol Hill, airport trips, inter-downtown trips, and a U-District trip.

And we compare the current pay with what they should make under the pay standard to give us a kind of real-world example of that.

And the final slide here just models what driver average pay was prior to COVID.

We did our evaluation before COVID, and so their average pay was about $21.53.

Under the pay policy, it should go up to $28.99, about a 30% increase.

And 84% of drivers will receive some sort of increase.

84% do not make this rate currently.

So I know that was quite a lot and quickly, I just wanted to move through quickly and open for any questions or anything that is helpful to go into the greater detail.

Thank you.

Director John, anything from you?

OK.

Wonderful.

Well, thank you all for your work and the presentation today.

Is there anything else, Karina and Amy, that you'd like to share?

I'll just I'll just add that the legislation is comprehensive and has a number of additional standards and requirements.

So just a couple that all lift up is that every year there are a number of automatic adjustments and some discretionary adjustments to the figures and the ordinance.

So, for example, the permanent amount That is tied to the minimum wage, of course, will increase automatically to align with Seattle's minimum wage.

There is a per mile rate.

that is scaled up as using the term, it's a utilization rate, but Karen referred to it as scaling up, it means the same thing.

That per mile rate can be adjusted by the director on a discretionary basis.

And if it's not adjusted on a discretionary basis, it'll increase automatically to reflect the rate of inflation.

And then there also is a discretionary The next piece is that the legislation provides for provision of personal protective equipment and disinfecting supplies during the COVID-19 emergency.

Wonderful.

Thank you all very much.

Council colleagues, any additional comments and questions at this point?

Vice Chair Herbold, any questions from you?

Not at this time.

I just saw you off mute and I thought maybe you were teeing up for something.

Sorry, I am trying to manage too many screens here.

I would just like to hear from you, Chair Mosqueda, about what you envision as our committee process moving forward on deliberations on this bill.

Okay, wonderful.

Well, thank you for that.

So as it relates to the next steps, we are hoping that we are able to get any additional comments and questions, any amendment ideas from folks.

Karina, Amy, remind me of the deadline we were hoping for later this week, I believe.

I don't think we've established a deadline for amendments, but thinking that the next committee meeting will be next Thursday, I would say, maybe Thursday midday.

Great.

Thursday midday, um, this week, this week.

Correct.

So then the following week they could be teed up for discussion and consideration.

Um, I will note that there are some conversations that we've been having after talking with, um, folks from the Riders Association, Lyft, Teamsters, I'm looking forward to bringing forward a few amendments that are still being crafted.

Ideally, what I'd like to do is to streamline our conversation by putting a few of the amendments together as one piece, so there could potentially be a substitute that people could look at as a whole package.

Sorry, that made it sound like it was more robust than necessary, but just so you could see the full picture of how these pieces could interchange together.

This is helpful.

When you say substitute, do you mean a substitute bill?

Or are you saying that there's going to be one amendment that's sort of like an omnibus of all of the proposed amendments?

Yeah, it would basically be a roll up of various amendments that I've been hearing about.

And so it would be an omnibus list of amendments that basically would in effect and tell me if I'm saying this wrong, essential staff in effect be a substitute to our existing bill.

So you would see all of the amendments in one place.

Got it.

Um, in that substitute, would it, um, do you envision it needing a title change and having to go through the, okay.

No, definitely.

I know that there are some, um, additional issues that both, um, folks from community partners have raised and some council members have raised.

I would encourage to leave the title as is.

And if there's a corresponding piece of legislation that someone would like to offer that complements this, that would be very much welcome.

But at this point, I don't think that we would want to redraft the bill.

We would want to work within the confines of the title.

And then if there's additional pieces that people think would fit nicely, I would absolutely welcome that conversation.

Thank you.

Any additional comments or questions?

I'll make a few comments.

Oh, please go ahead Council Member Strauss.

Thank you chair musket I think this is an important piece of legislation because we need to maintain our minimum wage held across all platforms and this bill is also as I heard bring forward some important transparencies the driver understands what passenger is paying and how all costs are accumulated throughout throughout this type of business so thank you for hosting this in committee and I look forward to the process as it continues.

Thank you very much, Councilmember Strauss.

Not seeing additional comments from other colleagues, I'll just offer a few comments to the public.

If it seems like we talk about Uber and Lyft and other rideshare companies for a long time, that is true.

We talk about these because as Councilmember Herbold has discussed in previous years, The gig economy is not just a sliver of the economy, it is the economy.

And as we think about ways that Seattle can really apply some of our labor standards to nontraditional work in sectors where we've seen gig work continue to grow and expand, wanting to make sure that the strong labor standards and principles that we have for protecting workers are applied in this sector.

is really critical.

So yes, it does seem like we continue to talk about this issue.

This, as I described on Monday during council briefing, this is another element to the conversations that we had last year and other strategies that we advanced earlier this year to make sure that folks who are working in gig type work have true protections so that they can, as one of the spokespeople said today during public testimony, so that they can put food on the table and keep a roof over their head.

just around the corner from where I live.

Often I see many cars that look like black car drivers, the nice Lincolns that are sitting there, and I believe people are living in them.

I think that it's imperative to make sure that people who are putting their life's work into providing a service at least have a minimum wage, and that's part of what this effort is really trying to do.

I'm going to turn it over to the city manager.

≫ Thank you.

Just for background, in 2014, the city began regulating TNCs by requiring licensing.

Since then, the city council has discussed and passed a number of policies including those requiring data disclosure, those protecting the rights of workers and more.

These policies were met with fierce We also passed a resolution to study adequate base wages for TNC drivers and this year under the leadership of the mayor and the office of labor standards we have a study as well as legislative proposals for base wages here.

I know many of you received a briefing about this legislation before the recess so I really appreciate your time there.

But since a few of us were not there for a few, sorry, since a few of us had an additional few weeks between those conversations.

And today I think that this recap has been extremely helpful.

And I do want to make sure that folks have plenty of time to review any amendments.

So any amendments that we receive, we will make sure to send those out.

the amendments that I'm considering drafting, we will make sure that folks get that well in advance of our September 24th meeting, where we do hope to vote on a revised bill.

If there are any additional amendments from council colleagues as well, we will make sure to reconcile those and make sure to share it as early as possible.

My hope is that we will be able to continue to solicit not just your feedback, but the feedback from Uber, Lyft, Rideshare Association, Teamsters 117, DriveForward, we have done in the past weeks and will continue to do so.

With that, thanks again for all of the comments and questions that came today.

And yes, continue to encourage comments and questions.

Council Member Herbold as Vice Chair, please go ahead again.

I'm so sorry.

No, it's no problem.

We have plenty of time.

When I mentioned that I was juggling screens, one of those screens was the notes for this meeting.

I want to signal my interest in amendments to address a couple issues that I understand you, Chair Mosqueda, also have some interest in.

And one of those is to strengthen the transparency requirements in the bill so that riders and drivers know how much each is paying and being paid.

And then also, we received a really, I think, important letter regarding the health care and cleaning practices that are necessary during during COVID-19 from an academic who has been really focused on that issue across the work being done by essential workers, and I'm very interested in addressing that issue, compensating people for the costs associated with maintaining their vehicles in accordance with health best practices, including the time.

This is something that Councilmember and I worked on as it related to premium pay for food delivery drivers, and I'm very interested in addressing that as it relates to TNC drivers as well in this legislation moving forward.

Excellent.

I absolutely support those efforts and look forward to making sure that we get a chance to look at amendment language that comes out so that it reflects your priorities as well.

We will be looking at additional language related to issues around transparency in the pricing mechanisms, adding in some basic labor standards that many other workers receive, and providing base fare and stable wages for drivers.

I think all of that is complementary to the existing base legislation in front of us, and look forward to working with you, Council.

and vice chair Herbold, and any other council members who are interested in possible amendments to bring forward together.

To try to streamline our conversation again, I'm going to try and see how much we can merge into one larger document.

And then if there's complementary legislation that's needed for other issues, again, welcome that discussion.

I do have one quick question before we wrap up today's discussion.

And for Office of Labor Standards, I think this may be a question for you.

One thing we heard from the TNC operators is that the wage formula transmitted looks similar to the New York model, and that the New York model and the TNCs limited the number of drivers on the app.

Now, I assume this means that the drivers on the app were getting more hours, and some were even less likely to be forced to have a second or third job.

But can you walk us through how this legislation addresses that concern around P1 time and the numbers of drivers on the app?

Yeah, thank you for the question.

I think it's healthy to dive into that because there's quite a bit there.

And the way the New York policy works is, you're correct, that it aims to keep drivers busier, so to speak, and therefore increase their pay.

And I just want to draw a distinction between different policy reasons.

There could be a reduction in, say, the number of drivers who are driving on the platform.

One is sort of what we've heard from the companies.

They sent a letter to counsel, as well as to our office, that there's a New York policy of monitoring how busy drivers are, and that resulted in, and they, as a reaction, reduced the number of drivers on the platform.

So that's one area.

The other kind of area of arguments is sort of similar types of stuff that we've heard before the Seattle passed its own minimum wage ordinance, that increasing wages or compensation results in a reduction in employment, or in this case, the number of workers.

And those arguments were made pretty vociferously, and by and large, they haven't been borne out.

We had record low unemployment in Seattle before COVID.

And, you know, I think what minimum wage policy and minimum compensation policy does is it values setting a minimum guarantee so that nobody falls below that, in contrast to sort of maximizing employment at the expense of a race to the bottom in terms of wages.

Now, what this policy does is it's going to create a minimum guarantee of a living wage, which 84% of drivers don't receive right now.

And it does that by setting a minimum per minute and per mile rate.

It does not initially set any, require any monitoring of how busy drivers are in contrast to what New York did.

And so any policy choice by the companies to reduce the number of drivers on the platform would be tied more to that second bucket of arguments that they have chosen as a way of implementing this to reduce the number of workers rather than say other policy choices like reducing their commissions to address that.

And I just want to draw a couple other distinctions between Seattle and New York.

New York is a very unique market and regulatory environment.

So in the regulatory bucket, they have a cap on the number of vehicles that can even be licensed at all.

Seattle doesn't have that.

And they had a really rapid influx of new drivers, resulting in about 3,000 new drivers per month and a total of about 200,000 drivers prior to their policy being implemented.

And then the last difference is Seattle's policy does not require a monitoring of how busy drivers are for over a year or perhaps longer.

And it requires that we provide notice to the company before we do anything of that nature.

So there's no reason for the companies to sort of limit the number of drivers based on how busy drivers are at the at the beginning of this policy.

So I hope that answers answers the question.

That's very helpful.

And if you have any follow up, just on the New York example that we might be able to share with other council colleagues, that would be helpful too.

If they're not able to listen in on this presentation, but we'll be sharing with them the PowerPoint presentation that you shared so that everybody has the same information and.

really appreciate that background in comparison to New York.

Vice Chair Herbold, please go ahead.

Just one other question.

An issue that has been raised with my office relates to regulations related to the condition of vehicles.

Can anybody from LOS or Carina, speak to how the legislation as proposed addresses that issue.

Minimum standards for vehicle conditions or vehicle age, I think is one of the issues.

Yeah, the ordinance does not address it.

And I think That's sort of outside of OLS's expertise.

That would, I think, properly fall more within FAS.

You know, maybe there's a way for the ordinance to address it, but task FAS with administering it.

That's a possibility.

But, you know, the short answer to your question is that the ordinance does not contain any regulation of vehicle age.

Okay.

Thank you.

Yes, so yes, I agree with Karim that the legislation doesn't regulate what age the vehicle needs to be.

However, I will add that in the calculation of the reasonable expenses, the researchers were able, they calculated an amount that is based on a 48-month loan for a vehicle, and they're assuming that the average lifespan of a vehicle is four years.

And so correct me if I'm wrong, Karim, but their calculation of the per mile cost for reasonable expenses includes a purchase or a loan of a new car every four years.

Is that one way to think about it, Karam?

Yeah, that's right.

They did assume how long a vehicle is on the platform.

I think if I'm understanding, Council Member, the question, I've also heard concerns from drivers that there's a cutoff by when they're no longer allowed to drive a vehicle, I believe, particularly with Uber Black.

And if they've invested an even amount of money and they purchased the car when it was only two years old, they're sort of forced off.

Yeah, that issue is not addressed in the ordinance.

But yes, there's an average length that Uber X drivers tend to have a vehicle and after which the vehicle is sort of not I think that is a problem.

It doesn't have any residual value and isn't reliable enough to thrive.

that.

We want to make sure we are not creating disincentives.

We want to make sure there is the ability to also keep their car and their house.

I heard last week from Lyft that their study included many drivers that weren't captured by the Parrot and Wright study.

Do we know if Lyft provided those drivers or that data to the city or our researchers to incorporate?

I just want to know if we're able to do an apples to apples comparison there.

Yeah, the short answer is no.

They did not provide us the data that underlines the Cornell study.

In fact, the city, just to review very briefly, the city, before launching its study, engaged the companies, asked for trip-level data, which is the data on how long each trip is and what the pay was.

The companies declined to provide that, citing privacy concerns.

They did give us some aggregate data.

Uber did.

And then they provided that trip level data to Cornell.

And we were made aware of the study roughly weeks before it was released.

It was released the same date roughly as our study.

And because of that timeline, we could not directly incorporate that analysis into our study.

And we still have not been provided with the underlying data.

But with that said, we have, of course, taken, you know, reviewed the study in depth.

I myself have been on calls with the study's authors and researching the Cornell, multiple calls with Uber and Lyft.

So it's something that we absolutely are considered in our own policy development.

But no, we were not provided the underlying data.

during our own study process or made aware that the study was even being conducted.

Thank you for that clarification.

Colleagues, additional comments, questions?

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

the partners, including Teamsters Lyft and Uber, Rideshare Association, Drive Forward.

I know people have been providing input over the last year plus.

So thanks for all of the work that's gone into bringing this legislation in front of us and look forward to sharing amendments with folks soon so that we can have a robust discussion on the 24th and ideally vote it out.

We will also be considering the Loyal Heights property transfer at our meeting next Thursday.

and those two items are what incorporates our agenda today.

We may have one more presentation that's still being requested of us and I'll let you know in advance.

Any additional comments or questions for the good of the order?

Okay, hearing none, we got through this in two hours.

I appreciate all of you.

It seems like a short meeting compared to some of the other marathon meetings that we've had.

So thank you very much.

I hope everybody stays safe, is able to be indoors and for those When we began shelter that you're able to get into some of the safe air spaces that are out there.

We appreciate all of your work and everybody stay safe.

We will see you on the Thursday, the 24th at 2pm.

With that, the meeting is adjourned.

Thank you all very much.