Seattle City Council Land Use Committee Special Meeting Public Hearing 6/18/2025

Good afternoon, everyone.

The June 18th, 2025 Land Use Committee meeting will come to order.

It is 2 p.m.

I'm Mark Solomon, chair of the Land Use Committee.

Will the committee clerk please call the roll?

Vice Chair Strauss.

Present.

Council Member Rink.

Council Member Rivera.

Present.

Chair Solomon.

Here.

Chair, there are three members present.

Very good.

All right.

With that, oh, also wanted to note that Council Member Moore is excused from today's meeting.

And if there is no objection, the agenda will be adopted.

Hearing none, the agenda is adopted.

So thank you all very much for coming out this afternoon to discuss land use.

As always, I wanna thank central staff, our city clerks, my staff, and thank you for taking the time out of your day to come here today.

On the agenda today, we do have two items.

We have some appointments that we're going to be making, and then we're going to continue our discussion on crime prevention through environmental design and the attempt to get that codified within the city of Seattle.

But we will begin with the hybrid public comment period.

Um, so public comments should relate to items on today's agenda and items within the purview of this committee, please.

Clerk, how many speakers do we have signed up today?

Currently we have two in-person speakers signed up and there is currently one remote speaker.

Okay.

Very good.

Uh, each speaker will have two minutes.

Clerk, can you please read the instructions?

The public comment period will be moderated in the following manner.

The public comment period is up to 20 minutes.

Speakers will be called in the order in which they are registered.

In-person speakers will be called first, after which we will move to the remote speakers until public comment period has ended.

Speakers will hear a chime when 10 seconds are left on their time.

Speakers' mics will be muted if they do not end their comments in the allotted time.

This will allow us to call on the next speaker.

The public comment period is now open and we'll begin with the first speaker on the list.

Alex Zimmerman?

How much, two minutes?

Two minutes.

One second here, one second.

Let us get the clock set for you.

Zechail, Zechail, Zechail, dirty damn Nazi Gestapo, Bandita and Junta.

Yeah.

My name, Alex Zimmerman.

I lived here for 40 years I trump support from beginning.

I speak in council chamber 5,000 times.

I have 6,000 days of trespass, and you, Bellevue, prosecute me five times.

Five times.

That's exactly what we need talking right now about environment, because I try to understand why they prosecute me five times.

I never steal a penny.

So my proposition right now, and I see your plan, is here, you know what this means, 100% BS with 50 pages, what is talking about how we can stop in crime.

I have a very simple proposition.

We can start with me.

I propose, Give Tesla, because Tesla good for environment, to every potential criminal, so I can be first in row.

You know what that means?

Because I prosecute, give me a Tesla, so maybe you not prosecute me number six.

You are a bunch of idiot, a cretina.

I'm talking about this.

Look, room empty.

I come for last week, nobody here.

Seattle, wake up.

It's exactly what I was talking for many years.

Exactly happened right now.

Why?

Because for five years we come from number one to number ten.

We've fallen down.

System collapsed.

And people start to understand this.

You Nazi peak cannot be forever.

We need to clean this dirty chamber totally.

You know what this means?

Fall in ten.

Floor, down is a hundred percentage collapse of system what is controlling, because king country number one fascist city in America.

New American Revolution.

Give me, give me please, give me Tesla.

I will be good boy.

All right, moving on to the next speaker, Steve Ropstello.

Speaker, before you do begin your remarks, I did want to reflect for the record that council member has joined us.

One of the things on your agenda today is to appoint people to the planning commission.

And that used to be a much bigger job than it is right now.

In your devaluating of citizens and keeping us out of the process because Lord knows we'd only muck it up and cost developers money, which we all know is the mortal sin in Seattle.

I'd like you to remember that that was part of the deal that brought the urban villages into Seattle.

What we had was a look at each development and to see how it fit in the neighborhood.

Now, we don't care how it fits in the neighborhood.

We're going to put it in.

And maybe that affects the livability in the city of Seattle.

Now, I don't make over 100,000 a year, so you probably would be just as happy to see me gone anyway.

But I don't intend to leave as of yet.

I know many who have.

But I think we ought to be looking at building Seattle that we want to live in.

And I don't think that we should be a slave to the agenda of the development community.

When they decided that trees would have to go, neighborhoods.

Now we have these boxes that you're putting down that don't require very much engineering because it's all pretty much the same thing.

It's been engineered and trees are not important.

Now in the north end we have had a number of trees much more than the south end.

but you're equalizing because you're destroying the trees that are in the city of Seattle.

And that is one of the problems I see of not caring about what people think in the city.

People didn't used to want to be on the land use committee and there was a good reason.

Moving on to our two virtual speakers.

We'll be starting with Aaron Brown.

Aaron, when you're ready, hit star six.

Yeah, my name is Aaron Brown, and I'm a resident of Bellwether Housing Anchor Plats at 1511 Dexter Avenue North.

I'm here today to urge this committee to intervene directly with Seattle Department of Coast and inspections and halt the permitting process related to Bellwether's proposed amendment of Master Use Permit 3015682, which would remove the requirement to provide tenant parking.

This requirement is not arbitrary.

It was a condition of the 2016 contract rezone that allowed the project to be built.

Under the MUP and rezone agreement, Bellwether is obligated to provide 26 tenant parking stalls, two ADA accessible places, one car share spot, and one staff space.

These were conditions agreed to in exchange for upzoning, and per SMC 23.34.004, Those obligations are to be maintained in perpetuity.

Instead, Bellwether has acted in willful violation of these terms in December of 2024. My assigned parking was stripped without notice of justification.

Bellwether then created a wait list to mask the reallocation of tenant stalls, placing me as number one on the list, but refused to offer me a space despite repeated requests and visibility.

or visible availability months of tenant complaints were ignored it wasn't until april 30 2025 that sdci finally issued a formal violation notice against bellwether for failure to comply with their parking obligations an alarming turn less than two weeks later bellwether filed a request to amend their mup not fix to fix the violation but to eliminate the requirement altogether retroactively excusing their non-compliance This is an egregious abuse of the permitting process.

It is an attempt to subvert Seattle land use code, nullify binding terms of a council approved rezone and disenfranchised tenants, particularly low income and disabled residents who depend on that parking access for basic mobility and safety.

I also submitted a reasonable accommodation which was ignored.

And adding insult to injury, Bellwether never informed tenants of their intent to amend the MUP even though it directly impacts our accessibility, safety, and rights.

The lack of transparency further underscores that it is not a good-faith request.

It is an after-the-fact attempt to legalize harm.

I'm asking this committee to formally request SDCI suspend or deny Bellwether's MUP amendment application on the grounds of an active violation tenant harm.

All right, thank you.

Our final speaker for today will be David Haynes.

Hi, David Haynes.

The presentation about environmental design is proof that we need to tear down Pioneer Square and Chinatown and rebuild a 21st century first world quality advanced interpretation of pedestrian-centric, resident-friendly neighborhoods not on the side of the drive-by road rage and predatorily convenient neighborhoods for evil criminals to hide within the slums to conduct their uncivil war on community with impunity.

while relying on criminal nightclubs, over-serving bartenders, giving a pass because they generate tax dollars, short-changing community, leaving everyone vulnerable, propping up slum real estate as residents are endangered because city council wants to focus more on environmental design and sidewalks as their agenda in public safety, while really not addressing their root problems of crime, the actual criminals still getting away with it while innocence has no privacy.

If we didn't have so many landlords on the city council sabotaging the comprehensive plan and allowing for a land abuse that forces everybody into the same rundown real estate on the side of the road that creates a need for all this patchwork fixed perception of safety, we could have a 21st century first world quality redevelopment of homes and commercial buildings that provide robust floor plans for the neighborhoods.

And, you know, Instead, we have all this modern third world 20th century rundown rentals at double triple mortgages that are oppressing the small businesses and the workers that are forced to live and work on the side of the air polluted road.

And yet I never hear all of the council members acknowledge that they have a conflict of interest every time they discuss the housing, the homeless, the public safety and the landlord tenant issues and even the ethics issues.

but yet you all are like virtue signaling whenever you can manipulate the media to make it seem like you're refusing yourselves from certain considerations on rentals, and it's offensive.

You all need legislation to prioritize financing new homes and buildings that go.

Thank you, David.

Okay.

Thank you, David.

Council Member, that was our last speaker.

Okay.

As that was our last registered speaker, the public comment period is now closed.

We will now move on to the first items of our business.

Will the clerk please read items through three into the record.

Agenda items one through three.

Appointments 3186 through 3188. The reappointment and appointments of Michaela Daffern, Rebecca Bunn, Julia Janin Shields as members of the Seattle Planning Commission for a term to April 15th, 2028. For briefing, discussion and possible vote.

Great, thank you.

And I see our presenters have joined us at the table.

So when you are ready, please introduce yourselves for the record and you may begin.

Am I live?

Yes.

Yes.

Thank you so much, Chair Solomon, and members of the committee.

My name is Vanessa Murdock, and I'm the Executive Director of the Seattle Design Commission.

I want to thank you all for the opportunity to introduce ourselves to you today, and the two appointees recommended that I will I'll turn to them in just a moment.

I do want to give a quick synopsis of the Planning Commission.

The Planning Commission is a 16-member independent volunteer body that is appointed by this body, the City Council, the Mayor, and the Commission itself, with all appointments being subject to the full City Council approval.

The commission advises this body, the mayor and city staff, on issues related to land use, housing, transportation, and livability.

These past few years, we've been very involved in following the development of the One Seattle Plan and are carefully following the deliberations of this body as you consider that plan and the associated legislation.

We look forward to making public comment at the hearing on Monday, and again, are following the deliberations very closely.

With that, I'd like to turn it to Rebecca Bruhn to introduce herself, and then following that will be Julia.

Hello.

Oh, I am live.

Great.

Good afternoon, committee members.

Thank you for having me.

My name is Rebecca Bruhn.

I use she, her pronouns.

I'm a renter in Crown Hill in District 6, and I'm just delighted to be here being considered for the Planning Commission.

In my day job, I am a senior project manager for transit-oriented development at Sound Transit, where I manage a portfolio of agency-owned surplus properties on their journey towards development as affordable housing.

I have projects all over the city and beyond, and they include both affordable multifamily rental projects and permanently affordable projects.

So I have seen firsthand all of the joys and frustrations of housing development and affordable housing development, and beyond that, seeing how important it is that we really capitalize on these truly generational investments in transit infrastructure and build out our station areas such that households of all shapes and sizes can enjoy the affordability and the mobility that's required to fully participate in the city.

And I was really inspired to apply to the commission because I think that that affordability and mobility should be extended to everybody in the city, no matter where they live, station area or not.

and that land use policies can themselves be generational opportunities to offer the opportunity for everyone to truly participate in and be in conversation with the city that they live in.

So thank you again for having me.

I'm really excited to get to work, pending approval.

And thank you.

Thank you again.

Thank you, Rebecca.

Julia, Jen, and Shields.

Let's see here, there we go.

Hi all, Land Use Committee Council members.

I'm Julia Janenshields, and I use she, her pronouns, and I'm honored to be considered for appointment to the Seattle Planning Commission.

I grew up in the San Francisco Bay Area where I saw firsthand how rapid development can harm historically underserved communities and the surrounding environment.

And that experience really shaped my commitment to community-driven planning that allows people to thrive in place.

I currently serve as King County's inaugural regional planning equity and engagement program manager, leading equitable engagement in long range planning.

I also co-chair the Puget Sound Regional Council Equity Advisory Committee, serve on the board of Homestead Community Land Trust, and I'm a partner at Black Space Urbanist Collective based out of Brooklyn, New York.

where I lead workshops for organizations like the American Planning Association on culturally responsive engagement and planning practices.

I deeply respect the Commission's efforts to amplify transparency and community voice, hence my interest in applying, and I'm excited about the opportunity to continue to contribute to a more inclusive, collaborative, and healing approach to planning Seattle's future.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Did you want to speak to the person who's being up for reappointment today?

Certainly.

Michaela Daffern is currently the co-chair of the Planning Commission.

She is the Affordable Housing Committee Manager with King County's Housing and Community Development Division.

Michaela has served three years and is seeking reappointment to serve another three.

She brings the experience of working at the county, working on affordable housing issues.

Prior to her time at the county, she worked for community roots housing up on Capitol Hill.

She's a great asset to the commission and I'm hopeful that you will seek, will approve her reappointment.

Okay, great.

Thank you.

Committee members, colleagues, any questions, comments for our guests?

Council Member Strauss.

Thank you, Chair.

Excuse me, Vice Chair Strauss.

You're totally fine.

Call me whatever you need to.

Clerk, could you let me in?

I'm also gonna ask to share a screen.

I know that that's a little odd, but Rebecca, nice to meet you.

I got to ride the bus with Thatcher yesterday and heard that unfortunate news, but really excited to meet you.

You as well.

Yeah, something that I talked to Thatcher about since you're doing transit-oriented development.

I am Seattle's sister city liaison with a city called Chongqing in China.

It's only the world's largest city of 38 million people.

There they have light rail that is actually in a building.

And so I'm going to show this if I can figure out how to use.

There we go.

Is it coming up?

Here we go.

So here we have an actual light rail station in a building.

i submit this for the record as something that's very i mean we've got the space there i'm always pushing can we do this can we do this i've heard maybe not yet we can look into it so i i say since i have your you before me right now what do we need to do to be ready to have light rail come into seattle from the planning commission standpoint we've got nearly 20 to $30 billion worth of investment.

It's gonna be a hundred year infrastructure.

What do we need to be thinking about as we're getting ready to have light rail come expand within our city?

Simple, easy question with very easy answer.

I would never try and speak on Thatcher's behalf.

He is the director of the community development office and is the mastermind behind both our TOD program and our joint development program.

I believe what that reference would be would be a joint development project.

Possibly that effort is well underway, trying to integrate housing, affordable housing, other types of development with our light rail stations and our new alignments.

I am not a part of that program, so I cannot speak to that specifically.

But I would say from the Planning Commission's perspective, they do great work in looking at land use codes, development capacity, looking at permitting reform, things like that, all these things that we can do to kind of grease the wheels towards getting those projects off the ground, making good relationships with the development community, with the local jurisdictions, with the neighborhoods, really putting in that work on the front end to make sure that when we're ready to put in that infrastructure, whether it is delivered concurrently or sequentially with the transit and development, However that can work, make sure that we're just ready for it when it happens and we don't miss that window, I think is most important.

And I believe the Planning Commission and the city has been doing great work on getting there already.

Thank you.

And Julia, you serve with Homestead Community Land Trust.

They just honored one of my longtime heroes, Jean Darcy, with her home.

putting an ADU behind it and now putting that on the market as affordable housing for everyday people.

What do we need to be thinking about as far as land use, zoning, planning?

What do we need to be thinking about in order to support programs like Homestead Community Land Trust being able to provide those affordable home ownership opportunities to Seattleites?

Yeah, I love those questions.

You should pull that real close.

Thank you.

Hello, there we go.

Thank you, council member for that question.

I think it's just so thoughtful and clear the intention and care that is behind it.

I think when it comes to organizations like Homestead Community Land Trust and working to ensure that we have more affordable housing in the city and things that we can do, As the City of Seattle and the Planning Commission, I think about the Planning Commission's Neighborhoods for All reports and really the focus on community impact and where community needs are highest to really ensure that we are moving the needle in the right direction.

Homestead Community Land Trust has been really transformative in terms of centering engagement and processes like placemaking with community to think about what do we really want to see in our neighborhoods and how can we ensure that it's not homogeneous but continues to preserve the history and culture of our region while continuing to plot a path forward together.

And so I think that while I might not have a direct overarching answer, community really knows best and it's been really insightful and wonderful learning as a board member, as we've gone into different communities, hearing what they want and how we can really build together.

We spent last weekend in Skyway doing a two-day community engagement process where we talked about the history of redlining within Seattle, then did design mapping and design sprints on what do we want to see and how can that really be reflected.

And that type of work throughout King County and in the city of Seattle, I just think is so important to continue pushing this forward and having processes like the Planning Commission that really allow community members to be in front of audiences like this and talk about what they want to see and how they can continue to represent their community to ensure that we're working towards a Seattle for everyone.

And so I hope that that was insightful and we'll continue to work towards those different perspectives coming together.

An answer that gives me homework to read the report is a good answer.

Thank you.

And thank you for your volunteer service to our city.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair.

And thank you both for being here today to speak with us.

Thank you for being willing to serve on the Planning Commission.

And it's clear that you both bring an abundance of expertise and would serve the Planning Commission immensely well.

And I'm thinking about the bodies of work coming ahead of us.

And we're moving into, well, we've been in comp plan for a while.

We're gonna keep being in the comprehensive plan work for a while.

And the planning commission has weighed in on the previous draft of the comprehensive plan.

And I'm wondering from your perspective, what do you think are the opportunities we have as a council and as a city in this new comprehensive plan as we're engaging in this work this year?

and the subsequent planning efforts?

And how would you like to see council maybe better engaging with the planning commission on that body of work?

I'll take a stab at that.

I can't.

Obviously, the complaint's a big lift, huge effort, so many voices in the room, so many voices coming from everywhere.

It's very difficult, I think, for council and OPCD to really take into account all of those different perspectives and come to a conclusion that everybody is happy with.

And I feel like what has come out of the process is good.

Obviously, we'd love to see a lot of housing diversity, a lot of density, and a lot of room for growth there.

I think what came out of that process is a good representation of compromise.

And I appreciate the effort put into that compromise.

Personally, would love to have seen it gone further.

Can't speak to how the Planning Commission and Council have interacted thus far, because I wasn't on the Planning Commission, but I do know that they have voiced kind of a similar opinion throughout this process.

I agree with that opinion.

However, it's the Planning Commission's job to advise the council and advise OPCD and let y'all make the hard decisions on listening to those voices.

But I would love to see further engagement with the Planning Commission on both the comp plan and whatever further work comes out of that.

I feel like through these processes, there are always items that are revealed or issues that are revealed through discussion and through community engagement that then can be sussed out after the fact when the focus can turn from getting this document and this package done to let's look back up this process and see what we can optimize in the future?

What do we really need to take a closer look at?

So those are my initial thoughts.

I'm sure I will have more in the coming weeks.

Yeah, that was wonderful.

I definitely echo those sentiments.

I think the other thing that comes to mind for me was I think in this past process, engagement process with the Comprehensive Plan to really dedicate funds towards allocating them to community-based organizations to lead their efforts in their community, really understanding them as experts.

And getting to be doing community engagement in a way that is really authentic was really inspiring, especially as I am starting out this new program at King County for regional planning, equity and engagement.

Those are models that I am just in awe of and I'm really grateful to be seeing and having partners in our region that are dedicated to that.

And I think that moving forward, at least from a planning commission perspective and working with council, continuing to ensure that there are funds dedicated to community participation in a range of ways, right, to ensure that folks can come, whether it's childcare or food or transportation, but then also, you know, continuing to honor the fact that people know their community best and giving those resources where they're needed and meeting people where they're at.

So I thought that that was just wonderful and looking forward to the ways that we can.

you to partner and push that work forward.

Thank you.

Well, thank you both again for your service.

Really excited that you will be joining the Planning Commission.

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you.

All right.

Council Member Rivera, any comments from you?

No comments from, well, I'll just say like I always say, I recognize that these are volunteer positions.

I always appreciate everyone's willingness to serve.

It is an important, the Planning Commission is obviously an important body as they advise us on all things land use related.

And I really appreciate your willingness to serve.

Thank you, Chair.

All right, thank you.

I have nothing further to add.

Again, I want to express my gratitude for your willingness to serve.

I mean, it's a really high paying gig, you know, got to admit that.

Definitely appreciate you and every person on every commission who chooses to take their volunteer time in service to their community.

So again, thank you very much.

With that, I move that the committee recommend confirmation of appointments 3186 through 3188. Is there a second?

Second.

Second.

It has been moved and seconded to recommend confirmation of the appointments.

Any other further comments?

Okay, clerk, will you please call the roll?

Councilmember Strauss?

Yes.

Councilmember Rink?

Yes.

Councilmember Rivera?

Aye.

Chair Solomon?

Aye.

Chair, there are four votes in favor and zero opposed.

Very good, the motion carries and the committee recommendations as the council confirm the appointments will be sent through the June 24th, 2025 full city council meeting.

So thank you all very much.

Again, thank you for your service and we look forward to bringing your full nominations or your nominations to the full committee for appointment confirmation.

Thank you all.

Thank you.

All right.

So we're gonna be doing a bit of a transition here.

Clerk, please read agenda item four into the record.

Agenda item number four, information 2690, informational item concerning crime prevention through environmental design for briefing and discussion.

Okay.

So for this portion, I will be moving to the presentation table and I will be joined by some colleagues there.

I don't know if colleagues, friends.

I'll be joined by some friends there and then we'll continue our discussion.

You can stay up there and do your presentation.

Really?

I can't.

Yeah.

You can just do it from your computer.

I mean, do whatever you want to do, man.

I mean, I'm not going to get in your way, but.

I'm going to hear what my buddies do.

OK.

Cool.

You want us all to come down there?

Okay, so we are continuing our discussion on crime prevention through environmental design and the argument for getting a codified in Seattle, and I would like my friends to introduce themselves for the record.

I'm Lisa Nitza, principal with Nitza Stegen, a developer in Seattle.

Okay.

And I'm Lori McEwen.

I'm the Vice President of Development at Nitsistagan.

Okay.

And one of the reasons that I've asked them to join me is because they are developers.

They are the ones who are building our housing.

And they're the ones who have always voluntarily reached out to me to say, hey, we have this project.

Can you take a look at our plans and give us your eyeballs on it?

So I want to acknowledge that and acknowledge...

their perspective when it comes to this topic.

To pick up where we left off before, as mentioned, these are just an example of projects that I've done that I've looked at that have had a SEPTED review.

So community centers, open spaces, houses of worship, stadiums.

You can see the list goes on.

So the sub-10 principles we're talking about do apply to not only the built environment, but any human environment.

So again, community center or a park.

And to that end, I wanted to highlight a couple of projects.

And I did shorten the presentation so we could have more discussion.

I felt it was more important to have a dialogue and discussion as opposed to doing death by PowerPoint.

So one of the projects we looked at is one of the next Sagan projects, 4001 South Willow Street, eight-story building, 195 residential units, 12 parking stalls.

Now, as a SEPTEP practitioner, I just don't look at what...

the building is, I look at where's it going, what's in the surrounding neighborhood, how is the surrounding neighborhood gonna impact this particular project, and how's this particular project going to impact the surrounding neighborhood.

So when I look at this one, I'm looking at what's in the area.

It's basically two blocks away from the Othello-Mild Baker Light Rail Station area.

Across the street, you have a tax credit property.

Right down the street, you have another low-income tax credit property.

You also have market rate apartments in the immediate area.

as well as Seattle Housing Authority properties.

You have shopping, commercial, medical, dental, banking.

It's a very thriving, very diverse community.

So when I looked at the initial plans, what you're seeing here, the picture above is the garage level.

So as a practitioner, I'm looking at where are potential access points?

Where are the potential conflict points?

So I'm looking at the ground level.

I'm looking at where is the entrance to this garage?

Where is that ramp?

I'm also looking at how wide is that ramp?

Because I wanna make sure that vehicles coming in and going out can de-conflict with each other.

as well as something I'm looking at is how can we have visual cues in the garage to prevent the pedestrian traffic, bicycle traffic, and vehicular traffic from coming into conflict with each other.

Lisa, I don't know if you want to say anything about this particular setup here.

Well, I think that's, I'm gonna turn it over to Lori, but I'd just like to say that we now are primarily building mixed income and affordable multifamily housing in opportunity zones.

So we have many of them going up in the South Seattle area and three of them in Othello.

And the first thing that we do once we begin putting our plans together, you know, has been to go to Mark and say, what are we missing here?

Where are we going to have problems either that are going to cause issues with safety for our tenants or that are going to create problems in the neighborhood?

And, you know, we're looking at it in a whole lot of different ways from our perspective, and you miss stuff.

So Mark's just, it's been enormously helpful to us, and he's done that now for, I think, six of our projects.

But Laurie can speak to the specifics of it because, of course, Mark's looking at it from his perspective, which is all safety.

So then there's meeting in the middle, and there's the things that we can't do that would be great if we could, and there are the things we can do that we might have forgotten about.

And that's kind of where we've ended up on all these projects.

But Laurie can be specific.

Certainly I know on this project, one of the questions that you ask immediately, Mark, is around the access.

And in this case, this ramp, it doesn't, this is gonna be tricky.

So what we take away from the checklist that we go over with you is we're constrained on the site.

We can't maybe have this as wide as we would like, but let's put in some mirrors.

Let's talk about some strategies that we can add to really address safety that we can't build it in that way, but we can include elements down the road to improve safety within the building.

And especially in this garage, we have very limited parking, but we also have all the bikes in the building and we have a fitness center in the basement.

So there's, there's a lot of different uses that are moving around on this level.

Thank you.

And I would point out that, you know, when I first looked at this project, I looked different than it does now.

The amenity of the fitness center was new.

The location of the bike storage has been moved.

Again, ramp is still the same.

The parking spaces are still the same.

There's just been a little bit of a change there.

But the things that I would ask them is, you know, about those mirrors so there can be oncoming traffic to seeing.

I also ask about what color are the walls?

Because if you've got light-colored walls in a garage, you can actually take advantage of a reflected light.

You don't need as many light standards, okay?

And so that can actually, you know, create energy efficiency.

So that's what I'm looking at with the garage.

I'm also thinking of buildings I've been to where I can think of one right off the bat, that once I'm in the garage, I can get anywhere in that building.

And from a safety and security standpoint, I want to make sure that something like that doesn't happen here, that there are, that if you're in the garage, you can get to the street level, but you're not going to be able to get to any of the residential levels, okay?

And that means having the elevators fobbed, maybe even having the elevator lobbies fobbed.

So those are some of the considerations I would bring forward with them.

When I look at the amenity of the fitness room, I'm wondering, is there some kind of glazing there?

Can people in the fitness room look out?

Can folks who are in the garage actually see into the fitness room?

What kind of visibility is between those two spaces?

So that, you know, if I'm gonna go into the fitness room, I wanna know what I'm walking into.

I wanna know who else is in there.

So I'm not surprised that there's six of the guys who weigh 300 pounds, you know, pumping weight.

Yeah, just as a precaution.

When I look at the ground floor, the primary thing that stands out for me, and that's the photo on the bottom level, is where is the main entrance?

How do I get into this place?

Now, what you see over onto the right side, where you have those residential units, the one-bedroom, the two-bedroom loft, those, that was initially designed to be a commercial space that has since been taken out and now has been...

a greater to residential units only, which is why the initial unit count of 191 has now increased to 195, okay?

Because the commercial space was taken out, additional rental residential units were put in.

That being said, I still want to know, where's my entry point, okay?

And I see there is a lobby vestibule that enters into the lobby.

Is that a controlled entry vestibule?

Do you need a key card to get in?

Do you need a code?

Is there a secondary lock there, right?

That gets you here to here, and then you're in there, you need to buzz in, those kind of things.

Where's the leasing office?

Does leasing office have good visibility of the lobby?

Does the leasing office have good visibility of the package area mail area because one of the things that i see often in these type of buildings is a high degree of package theft so i want to make sure that there's good visibility throughout um you know throughout that common space again is it a lockout building do i need a fob to access the elevators uh do i need a fob to access any of these residential hallways so that was something that i would also be looking at Any other comments on that?

I don't know if you have a visual of the exterior of the building, do you?

I do.

The one thing I'd say before we leave this is that after our conversations with you for all of our projects, one thing that we're really thoughtful about is trying to provide access through one main point And then other, like in this case, that hallway is only an exit.

So you enter through the main lobby and then you can't enter.

You can see the door at the end of that hallway.

So we're really trying to make sure that we're controlling where people are coming into the building.

We're allowing them to exit freely, but come through an area where there is kind of more people are together making sure they know what's going on.

Thank you, so let's just see if I can back it up to get to this.

Did you want to speak on this part?

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Yes, there are two elements of this that Laurie can speak about that are changed from the original design that are specifically because of the CPTED input that we got.

The stairs and the open area which is land that belongs to the city that we agreed to make into a public park.

So the staircase that you can see kind of in the center of the building there, there will be a piece of art on that staircase that was designed by a local artist that originally was designed as an open air staircase.

And it caused some design challenges, but also seemed like, through our conversations with Council Member Solomon, that it provided some potential security concerns as well.

So we just brought that into the building.

We still have the public art.

Then the plaza area that Lisa just mentioned, that is probably the area where we had the most input because, so that is a piece of City of Seattle property.

It's adjacent to our building at the corner of Willow Street and Martin Luther King Jr.

Way South.

We wanted to improve that property as a benefit to both residents and the neighborhood.

But I think there are a lot of challenges in thinking through what does that design look like in a way that is positive for people rather than becoming a problem area, basically.

So there was a lot of input from Council Member Solomon on what that space turned out to be.

So with regard to the stairwell, there was an open air stairwell.

It looked like it could be accessed from the ground floor.

And from there, you had access to all the residential floors above.

And one of the recommendations was to have that gated off so there wasn't just ground level access into that stairwell to be able to get to anywhere in the building.

Again, when I'm looking at plans, and I can't remember how big this plan set was initially, another one of the plan sets I looked at for theirs was 178 pages.

So typically, that's the kind of volume I'm looking at.

But again, I'm primarily focused on ground floor, garage, any access points.

I'm looking at glazing material.

I'm looking at type of doors, type of lighting.

And again, this is basically the garage level that we already saw a previous picture of.

And again, ground floor.

And when I teach SEPTED, I teach other practitioners how to look at a blueprint, how to review a floor plan.

You'll see this one.

We have the ground level planning schedule and the vegetation plan that you can see.

One of the things that I would do on top of looking at the vegetation plan is looking at the lighting plan and making sure that the lighting plan and vegetation plan don't conflict with each other because it's not uncommon that there'll be a great vegetation plan and a great lighting plan, but when that vegetation reaches full maturity, it's blocking lighting.

So we wanna make sure that those two elements are actually in concert with each other, not in conflict with each other.

The area to you right there, that is the plaza that was being discussed.

This open air area here, this is from the previous plan set where you see that open courtyard.

And the questions I would ask is, who are the intended users for this?

Is it for the folks who are gonna be in the retail space or Is it gonna be for the folks who are residents of the building?

How do you do territorial reinforcement to ensure that the space is being used by the folks you intended to be used by?

Again, I'm thinking about what else is in the area, who else is in the area?

How are we separating that from the street?

How are we making sure that we don't have any vehicle incursions into that area where we have people gathering?

So just a couple of considerations that I have there.

Anything else you wanna add onto this piece?

Just in aggregate, because we do this on all of our projects, our designers, our architects have really, I think, absorbed an awful lot, and so these things are all being worked in to subsequent projects in a way that is helpful.

But the one thing that I think Laurie and I were talking about is that it has to be done early on because it's very, very expensive to change walls and pipes and holes and things like that so that the value here is getting at this very early in the design of the project and getting the input.

If it's too late, then it gets harder and harder to actually implement the good ideas.

Which actually leads me to a question is, at what design stage would it be too late to implement some of these changes?

I think you have to be looking at this when, so it's post massing, you know, you have your massing in place, you have your gen, like you, you've started to put together your sip and then you can answer the questions effectively enough.

if it's too early you don't you know you kind of have to be able to respond so to have the guidance rather than having just guidelines the way that you've done it where it's asking you do you have this it's it's effective when you have a set of plans that are still malleable where you're still able to move all the change all the electrical add some extra lighting and And then also I think to do a subsequent check almost right before construction.

Did we get all this?

Is there anything else that we missed?

Has something changed that is now in conflict with a decision that we made earlier that made a lot of sense?

So like two reviews, not reviews necessarily, but two reminders to take a look at the checklist.

Good.

Thank you for that.

Yes.

Thank you, Chair.

I've had a lot of questions.

This is really good information.

And maybe we'll answer this over the course of the conversation.

I think where I'm getting hung up is a similar question of like, when do we check in?

How do we check in?

Because Nitze Stegen is one of the best partners that we have in the city.

Something that I always appreciate about all of the buildings that you do is that there's the third bottom line of public good.

how are you as a company being a good steward of seattle and how are you making seattle better and so i'm not surprised to see you at the table today and the question for me then becomes what about the people who are not necessarily civic-minded in the same way i'm not calling them bad i'm not calling there's no there's no negative connotations it's just that you are that much better thank you How do we then engage with them?

And this is where I think it's a longer, maybe throughout this conversation, do we codify parts of this?

I mean, because then it becomes harder in some ways.

Like I've seen code, well-intended code become problematic, right?

Is it all carrots?

Are we providing incentives?

Are we providing a higher massing, like a larger massing, higher heights?

If people engage in certain aspects or is it requiring consultation at certain points?

in the design process.

I don't know the answer.

Just hearing the conversation so far this morning, that's where my mind is going.

And I guess I'm not asking for a direct answer right now, but maybe we can weave it into the conversation.

Because, yeah.

It's a great question.

And I think the right question, because the point is that we're all trying to do the maximum good things that we can in a neighborhood.

And if all of the buildings are having this a level of thoughtfulness about this for the tenants, for the people that aren't tenants, et cetera.

And so that's the trick is how do you get there?

I just happened to have worked with Mark on some community things, and he said, well, you know, if you want, I can take a look at this stuff.

And then it was just such a huge help.

So part of it may be us speaking in our own, you know, circles and just doing a couple of presentations about it.

And so that's a helpful thought for us.

And Lori is the one, you know, obviously who...

can really speak to it.

But it's a shame not to do it.

And so it's on us to figure out how to have it proliferate some.

But then the far end of that is for developers, the more mandates that you create and the more things that one has to do or has to wait for a review on or other kinds of things, that's terribly costly and very, very burdensome when we're all trying to get as much accessible housing built as quickly as possible to meet the need.

So it's somewhere in the middle of that.

I would agree.

I would say that providing the checklist early on.

So, you know, when you begin the permitting process, I don't know exactly what that, you know, how you incorporate it, but the checklist gets your wheels turning.

So it's not necessarily you submit your plans and wait, you know, X weeks or months for a response, but more, these are the things you need to be thinking about.

Do you have these?

And then allow the developer to kind of take it from there.

OK, so these are the elements.

I think the checklist is so thorough and thoughtful that developers can incorporate these things if they're given the guidance on how it can be done most effectively.

That's great.

I mean, I just look at buildings in Ballard that were built in the 2006 to 2010 range that didn't even have gates on their garages, right?

Like they have got open parking lots and the public safety challenges that were created from those kind of pockets, if you will, not only impacted the residents, but it impacted the greater community And a lot of those HOAs had to put $30,000 in to make those retrofits.

And it's hard to go back and fix a problem once it's built.

And that's why I think, Mark, your question, Council Member Solomon, sorry, your question of like, when is the right time was exactly right.

I'm gonna be quiet, keep listening to the presentation, and I'd love to just keep working with you to answer these questions.

Thank you for the questions.

Great.

Thank you for that.

And it actually is a good segue, because one of the reasons I asked, at what point is it too late to make changes, directly relates to this project, Rainer Beach Community Center.

I was asked by the Parks Department to review this as the center was under redevelopment.

They were already so far along in the process.

I think they were at the 60% stage.

So anything I recommended at that point was probably too late.

And the one thing I noticed as I was looking at this plan, again, I'm always looking at where is this thing?

What's in the area?

What's around it?

What's the impact of the surrounding area going to be on it?

What is the impact of it on the surrounding area?

I look at the fact that you've got South Shore School right adjacent to it.

You've got a pool.

You've got Rainer and Henderson, which has seven different bus routes that converge there.

You've got Rainier Beach High School a couple of blocks to the east.

You've got the library a couple of blocks to the south.

You've got major shopping this kitty corner from there.

You've got the tennis courts and then just about two blocks west you have an elementary school.

So you have, oh, and to the north of this, you have an alternative school, South Lake.

So there is a lot in this particular area.

And as you can see in the south, the picture is south of the community center.

you have this large open plaza.

Well, one of the things I noticed about the plans were the entrances.

You have one major entrance on the north side, which leads to the main parking area, and you have a major entrance to the south side, that leads into that plaza area.

Both were intended to be open at all times.

And I looked at the orientation of the front desk.

The front desk is only oriented north.

There are no eyes from that desk on that south entrance.

So the recommendation I made was to reorient that desk 90 degrees so there would be natural eyes on both the north entrance and the south entrance.

That was not done.

The first day this community center opened, There was a fight disturbance that developed in the little plaza, where it made its way north through that south entrance, through the community center, out the north entrance, and into the main parking lot.

Since then, they've actually had to close that door on the south plaza and basically keep it closed, keep it locked.

When I was at the community center this past weekend, Again, there's signs on the door that direct people to go around to the north side of the building because that door is not actively used.

Why?

Because they can't actively monitor it.

So one of the things I asked about was cameras.

Well, can you put a camera on the door?

Yes, there is a camera on the door.

Although where you see...

Where the camera is that actually looks at that door is pretty much in the center of the hallway by those classrooms between the pool and the classrooms over on the right-hand side.

So it doesn't have very good visibility.

There is a camera that looks at the plaza, but it doesn't look at the door.

And when I asked about who can view the cameras and where from, at that time, the cameras could only be viewed from the utility closet across the hall from the main desk.

So I suggested, okay, make sure that the folks at the main desk can actually view those cameras.

That was done for a while.

Current configuration is the cameras can only be viewed by the community center's director's desk.

So those who are working the front desk cannot actively view the cameras.

So that would be a change that I would make in terms of policy in terms of camera placement, I would actually recommend more cameras.

But this is an example of recommendations being made at a point where it was too late to actually implement those changes.

So the whole idea behind, you know, codification with this is, think about it early on in the process, okay?

And we've been thinking about, okay, can we incentivize it?

Can we carry it?

How do we do it as opposed to...

One of the things I looked at was what are other cities, other municipalities, other jurisdictions, what do they have in terms of CEPTED and code?

And I look at the example of Tampa, Florida, which probably has the most robust CPTED language in their codes.

One of it, just looking at chapter 27, is a statement that says the city of Tampa supports a CPTED philosophy as a way to reduce crime.

Okay, so it's a statement of purpose, okay?

And that it has incorporated subject principles throughout the regulatory review process.

So they're basically saying that not only do we support this stuff, we're gonna implement this stuff throughout all of our processes.

And another example with the West Shore Overlay District calls out which elements of SEPTED will be incorporated.

And primarily we're talking about natural surveillance, natural access control, and territory reinforcement.

As we were talking about earlier, there are the five overlapping strategies for the purposes of codification.

Natural surveillance, natural access control, and territorial reinforcement are the ones that we want to focus on and get incorporated into code.

An example from Jupiter, Florida, with Section 27, 1858, supplemental district regulations.

You know, it spells out, SEPTED standards shall be incorporated into all new development throughout the district.

And they're primarily talking about school districts here.

And they lay out some specific examples regarding murals and sculptures and artwork.

So public art is another good SEPTED principle.

It discourages graffiti, especially if the artwork is done by a local artist, as it's going to be the building at 4101. They've got a mural that's gonna be on that stairwell that will be done by a local artist.

So that's great.

It's an activity generator.

And local art can be a focal point as well.

When I look at the city of Grand Rapids, they have a SEPTED ordinance.

And again, they spell out what it is and what it is they intend this ordinance to do.

the state of Virginia actually enacted something in a regular section that requires plans and specifications for newly remodeled public school construction has to be reviewed by somebody who's got an expertise in crime prevention through environmental design.

So this is something else to look at, that if you're gonna be submitting plans, those plans will be looked at somebody who's got a SEPTED lens.

Okay.

Yes, sir.

So now we're getting into more of the requirements, the sticks.

Because we've got our experts here, if you can help me understand, do these other municipalities, are they getting it right with the timing, with their sticks?

Do we also need to be, including incentives, because I hear the real, I mean, and this is real, because I see it all the time, especially with the permitting audit, that any additional review or consultation can really create a backlog.

And if we had 850,000 Councilmember Mark Solomons, we'd have all of the time in the world.

I get a little worried about those bottlenecks.

And so just as we're kind of going through these different ordinances helping me better understand where did they get it right?

Where might that create an unintended consequence?

And then the secondary question of if we're going to require consultation or meeting certain codes, what is needed from there for you?

Is it just pure height?

Is it massing?

Is it floor area ratio?

Help me better understand how I can be helpful.

I would think that, so for us as multifamily developers, providing the list but not necessarily including it as an actual element of the review process, I think that's a starting point.

So here, even a check that you have reviewed the checklist, something like that, you know, so that it is out there, it's in the hands of multifamily developers.

I would think that maybe for something like schools, you need to go through the full checklist or projects that are receiving, you know, city funding, that maybe there's a different process.

That's really helpful because I just think of the Ballard Branch Library When it was rebuilt, they added a customer service center onto it.

And it's so bad, people can't find the door.

beyond all of the other public safety issues that it creates.

They literally have to put a sandwich board out now because I was having to direct people from my fishbowl office.

So I think your inclusion of publicly funded projects or especially city buildings or schools, that's helpful.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Okay.

Thanks.

And this is where we get into some of the things, you know, we've seen some examples from other municipalities.

And I wanna show a couple of examples that are right here in Washington State.

There are over 40 jurisdictions in Washington State that have CEPTED somewhere in code.

Here's just an example from CTAC.

And again, looking at the purpose of the Title 17 is to create standards that address CEPTED And this title shall apply to all the land use categories.

And they're saying that this title shall only apply to all new construction, including buildings and site improvements.

So there they're saying, here's what it applies to.

And while it suggests that a single family residential should, single family residential is exempt from these requirements.

A lot of what I've looked at in terms of what we may want to model in Seattle is what Federal Way has done there, chapter 19, adopting design guidelines in accordance with land use policies established in a federal way, in accordance with crime prevention through environmental design guidelines.

So again, here's where we're looking at guidelines, and they're talking about implementing CEPTED principles by, and here's what they're looking at requiring.

Just as I mentioned before, that natural surveillance, that access control, that ownership, that really is about that territoriality.

because territoriality is an extension of ownership.

It goes on to highlight where SEPTED principles will be used and incorporated into design features, and why, what's the rationale for incorporating these elements into the design of the building.

And because you can read, I'm not gonna read through every line.

Laurie, you can speak to this with more detail than I can, but I think when we look at these things, they are all, when you're talking about being encouraged to or having, going through a checklist, being given a checklist at the beginning of it, and then looking at the expectation that one will have thought about what they can do within that checklist is very And what we have found is that if you have things that require somebody to go over them, or if you are going to have reviews of whether or not you have implemented things, it's very, very costly because you have such massive time lags here.

And so the project's sitting for all of that.

And so if there were any of that, it would have to have some kind of a rapid implementation that would not take us backwards into making the project so expensive that people couldn't build them.

Yeah, absolutely.

Did you have another question before?

Okay, great.

Again, just, you know, circling back on federal waste code, you know, the applications are subject to design review guidelines.

It does give the director the authority to approve, modify, or deny proposals under this process.

So just as the director now has the ability to approve, modify, or deny a project, Having the CEPTED requirement seems to be another area where the director, you know, can exercise that hammer.

What I'd like to emphasize, though, is the incentive, as it has been mentioned, doing a draft checklist.

And this is something that Federal Way has put together.

You know, they basically say, hey, if you've got plans you're going to submit, fill out this checklist and submit it with your plans.

So they've provided written guidance.

as the kind of things that they're looking for.

So I believe, and Lead Star is a copy of the Federal White Checklist.

I have developed a draft checklist for the city of Seattle that's extremely comprehensive.

And it's not just, basically it's a master checklist.

It applies to a parking garage, a school, a church, an open space.

It's just, you know, If this, yes, if this, no, if it doesn't apply, you just hit NA, right?

So rather than having seven different checklists, I have just one that whatever applies, you fill that portion out.

What I've seen in other cities in Auburn, for example, they assign a point system that if you meet certain CEPTED guidelines, and for Auburn, it really only applies to cannabis retailers, but if the plans, meet those particular CEPTED guidelines, and they get points added, you know, for their consideration.

That's just as an example.

For the city of Bellevue, CEPTED really only applies in their code towards homeless shelters, okay?

So different municipalities apply it in different ways.

And there's actually a database that I can access through the US CEPTED Association that shows you which jurisdictions and which cities or, excuse me, which states actually have CEPTED in code and can point you directly to that code.

So we do have that resource that we can look at and draw from.

So we're not recreating the wheel.

We're looking at, you know, things that are already in existence, like CTEC, like Federal Way, and looking at that as a model to develop.

our own, and so here's where I'm looking at, you know, where do we in Seattle try to come at it?

And one proposal is adding language similar to Tampa that expresses support for SEPTED, right?

That, you know, we support a SEPTED philosophy as a way of reducing crime.

And adapting the state of Virginia language similar to that any plans that are gonna be reviewed Somebody that's got a SEPTED lens has to be looking at those.

Now, you may be thinking that there aren't a lot of people out there who have this expertise.

And I would say, actually, there are.

There are a number of city employees that do have this as an expertise.

My colleagues in the police department, several folks in the Parks Department.

And I've had an opportunity to do some training with the Washington Association of Code Enforcement And a lot of them are in our Department of Construction and Inspections.

So they're aware of SEPTED.

And getting folks trained up and just having somebody with that lens look at these plans with, you know, the fire department and every other department, you know, that's basically what we're saying.

You know, the plans are going to be reviewed anyway.

Let's just make sure that somebody with a SEPTED lens is looking at those plans.

Also looking at guidelines similar to what we have in Federal Way that provides that guide, provides that guidance.

What is that checklist?

If you want me to be considering this stuff, what is the stuff you want me to consider?

And that's where coming up with that checklist for consideration is coming from.

Make it easy.

Don't make it guesswork.

because when I've looked at plans for, and it's a stake in, as well as other developers, a lot of developers, when I ask a particular question, they go, oh, we didn't think about that, right?

So that's why some of the questions are worded, because I want them to start thinking about that ahead of time.

One of the primary things that has come up repeatedly for me was first responder access into buildings that are lockout.

Right now, fire has the Knox box, you know, they can get into any building.

Police don't have access to the fire's Knox box.

And I've been, you know, heard from so many officers who have said, hey, I tried to respond to this address.

I couldn't get into the building.

And even if I could get into the building because It's FOB access only.

I couldn't get to the floor.

I couldn't get into the elevator.

Couldn't get into the stairwell.

So, you know, they're responding to a hostile person with a axe in the stairwell.

Can't get to them.

They're responding to a domestic violence situation on the fourth floor.

They can't get there without the person actually letting them up.

maybe not breathing.

Again, something else that officers are responding to, but the people who called are not able to let them in because they're dealing with the crisis in that unit.

And again, officers can't get in the building, they can't get up in the elevators, and they can't get to the floor where they need it.

So what we've been able to do is work with these buildings to provide law enforcement specific access, usually in the form of FOBs, you know, they'll do a lock box, a recessed lock box that can't be knocked off the side of the wall that has a key code, multiple fobs in that box so that, you know, the initial responding officer can get a fob, gain universal access to the building, get into the stairwells, elevators, go to whatever floor they need.

And if they need backup, they can call for another officer.

That other officer can come, enter that same code because the code would be, married to that address in the computer aided dispatch system so if officer a needs backup officer b can show up get a car you know get a fob to respond to back that officer without having that initial officer disengage okay so been able to do that with a number of buildings in the d2 and again something that we want these buildings to consider especially the multi-family buildings there are Your FOB will only get you into the commons and to your floor, period.

I've got a number of buildings like that in the south end.

And again, we've had to work closely with those buildings and the property management to make sure that when officers are responding to something, we're talking about life safety stuff, like I said, domestic violence, assault a person, that they can gain access to the building and get to where they need to go to render that aid.

So that was a lot.

Are there questions?

And I'm sure there are.

Where did you find that photo?

I have my secrets.

I've been asking a lot, so if there's other colleagues.

I mean, I guess I'll just keep talking then.

It really is the question of the how, when do we require or incentivize And possibly, you know, I just think Councilmember Solomon, here we are having a private meeting in public, right, of what are the next steps?

Is it do we create a pilot?

Do we create requirements for publicly owned buildings?

Like when you brought up Rainier Beach Community Center, Green Lake Community Center and Rainier Beach were...

Beach went in phase one of the MPDs because there wasn't enough space for both of them.

Now Green Lake is up, and luckily we're not at 30% design, but I'm suddenly realizing that if I'm not there to require it, are they going to go through a SEPTED checklist and then are we going to end up closing one of the doors forever?

And so, I just kind of try to think about in the functional next steps from here, how do we ensure that it's not just a presentation on June 18th, 2025?

How are we making this a more lasting imprint?

The way I look at this is, if we do nothing else, let's start with the stuff the city owns, right?

Whether it's a community center or a library, Magnuson Park.

There are so many CEPTED recommendations we have for Magnuson Park that have been made.

multiple times that have not been followed through on.

If we had, we would probably help address some of the crime and disorder issues going on in Madison Park.

When I look at Jefferson Park, I had a chance to review those plans before Ground was broken.

I was able to say, hey, let's orient the children's play area this way so that officers driving by can actually see into it.

So something as simple as that.

But again, to me, it would have to be done early on in the design phase where there is still time to make those changes.

My gut says, I'm just picking 60%.

Maybe there's still time to do something at 60%, but at that point, it's going to be dang expensive.

So if we're starting to look at it at the concept phase, it's like, hey, we want to do X.

It's like, great.

Here's a checklist for you.

So the earlier on in the process, the better, and we can figure out a way to incentivize it.

And we've been talking in the office, do we offer increased FAR?

as an incentive.

Do we award points?

And here's the thing that's really, in some ways, very frustrating for me as a sub-tech practitioner, because I can go to any company.

I can go to Lisa or I can go to whoever and say, here's my recommendations.

They don't have to do them.

So, do we get it to the point where, say, you will, right?

And I think that's where they're saying, nah, we don't want that, okay?

So, you know, and this is where, you know, we have to figure out, okay, what's the right language to use that?

Please consider, as opposed to you will, right?

I mean, when, like, the other jurisdictions would say, they, you know, SEPTED will be incorporated, okay?

it doesn't say what the or else is, right?

And then you have the other jurisdictions where it's just highly encouraged, or the other jurisdictions say, you know, consider these things.

And what I'm looking at for us is adopt the philosophy that says we support it, give something to those developers that they can actually go by to look at, and then have somebody that's got the kind of training that I do look at the stuff at the same time that everyone else is putting their nose in the plans.

And if it comes down to a capacity of making sure that we have enough SEPTED trained personnel in the city system in SDCI to make it happen, to make that process seamless, that's easy enough to do.

It's easy enough to get a good cadre of people trained up.

Because what I'm almost seeing is it's the requirement that somebody's received the checklist, like what you were saying of, have it be a checkbox on the application that received and reviewed the SEPTED checklist as that being the first round in this pilot to then the second step being incentives for meeting a certain number of the requirements.

And those incentives can be, you know, fill in the blank.

What would the incentives be that would be most meaningful

And you can also come back to us later.

We just happened to be spitballing today, right?

Sure.

I mean, I think what you mentioned is exactly it.

Depending on where you are in the city, additional height, additional far, that would need to be sorted out, absolutely.

But I think that kind of incentive could have some real value.

And then the third piece being the requirement for publicly owned buildings.

I would hesitate only because affordable housing projects are essentially the only publicly funded projects and I don't want to create the same roadblock But at the same time, they need to have a higher threshold of engagement.

So maybe the publicly funded ones is where we dig in a little bit more.

The publicly owned buildings are required, right?

So then we have a number of different tiers so that we can test the pilot out.

So we're minimizing the unintended consequences.

And for anyone watching on Seattle Channel, we're literally just talking this out right now, so don't hold any of us to any of this, but this is, you're seeing where everyone's thinking.

And I would also follow the lead of CTAC and not require this for single family residential.

In fact, I would exempt most, pretty much we exempt anything under 20 units, you know, to require that they go through this kind of checklist vetting.

Yeah.

That's fair.

Cool.

All right.

I'll chime in over here.

And apologies, I've been a little bit quiet on this just because I'm trying to digest myself.

This was a fantastic presentation, so thank you for walking us through this and just trying to, in real time, understand a little bit more of this philosophy, this approach, and the expertise that you're bringing to this.

I have a couple of questions, but one, just because you brought up this point, can you expand more on why you would want to exempt single-family development from this?

I just want to better understand the rationale behind that.

Okay, basically, why would I want to accept single family?

As I look at the CTEC ordinance that says that, yeah, you should have disposals when you're looking at single family, they're not gonna require it, okay?

And what I'm thinking about for us is really, again, what does the city build?

What does the city own?

City assets, and then we talk about multifamily our workforce housing, where we've had safety concerns because of the way that things have been designed, saying, okay, we want you to consider these things.

So, you know, duplex, triplex, stack flat, not necessarily going to have the same kind of security and safety concerns.

Yes, I do want you to have good natural visibility out of your windows.

I do want you to have good locks and latches and good access control.

I do want the property well maintained and well identified, but for our purposes, do I want to require that an individual homeowner or someone who's doing a duplex or a couple of cottages, do I want to require they follow these?

Not necessarily.

Do I want to encourage them to?

Yeah, absolutely.

Interesting.

Thank you for breaking that down for me.

And I'm wondering, especially since we have...

Oh, sorry.

And I'm losing my voice.

Sorry.

Thanks, Councilmember Strauss.

Just since...

Thank you to Nietzsche Sagan also for being here today.

Really appreciate the expertise you're bringing to the table.

And I suppose I'm also trying to understand, when you think about peer development organizations, Do you have a sense of their level of familiarity with this as a concept or the kind of work that they've done incorporating SEPTED principles into design?

I honestly, it's something that we've talked about quite a bit.

We've had all of our design teams meet with council member Solomon for our last four or five projects.

So it's certainly something that we talk about in our circles, but I can't speak to whether other similar peer development companies are incorporating this process.

I don't hear it talked about.

So I think that, you know, simply getting it so that it's talked about is a big step forward.

Thinking that way, which, you know, again, can start with something as simple as the checklist.

I think it's not an obvious way of thinking for people.

Of course, it makes incredibly great sense the minute you start thinking about it.

And it's very manageable.

Once you sit down and go through this list, it's not confusing in any way.

But to Lisa's point, it's maybe just not obvious.

So just having it out there and talked about.

That's incredibly helpful to understand and definitely feedback received, just getting it out there.

Sorry, Council Member Strauss.

He's looking out.

And I'm wondering, this might be a question maybe as we move along in this process, a question for central staff, but I am curious about the level of expertise we have currently within SDCI on this matter.

I don't know if that's a question you can answer, Council Member Solomon, but it's certainly something I'm interested in knowing what kind of internal like city staff expertise we have in this area as well.

The exact numbers of how many SDCI staff are CEPTED aware, it's quite a few.

CEPTED certified, probably very few.

I would say that your biggest cohort of CEPTED certified practitioners is actually within the police department with your crime prevention coordinators.

Some of the community service officers have also been trained in crime prevention through environmental design.

The class I did in Tumwater a couple of weeks ago had a couple of members of the parks department who came and got their certifications there.

And I know other parks staff that are certified in it as well.

Again, getting folks trained up, certified is actually a pretty easy process and not that expensive.

You know, especially when I look at, you know, the different options, whether it's through the National Institute of Crime Prevention or the American Crime Prevention Institute or even the State Crime Prevention Association.

All of those offer CEPTED certification programs at differing costs.

Okay, great to know.

And this last question is kind of a more holistic question, but I'm wondering, since you all are much deeper in this work and have experience having worked on projects to improve safety through environmental design, I'm wondering what do you think is the most misunderstood element about this body of work?

I think that you would need to do some, like make some grand changes.

Instead, it's more kind of micro.

Like Council Member Solomon was mentioning, it's thinking, you know, you'll have your lighting plan, but have you thought about the next step of what your lighting plan looks like in 10 years when your vegetation has grown?

So that's just one little notch further.

You obviously have locks on your doors.

You have an access control system in your building.

But have you access controlled the vestibule doors, the stairwell doors?

It's just really thinking one step further.

It's not a major redesign.

and something as simple as thinking about with the garage door in the project we were looking at.

I wanna know how long does that garage door take to open?

How long does it take to close?

And what's the lag time?

Because I wanna prevent somebody from either tailgating on foot or in a vehicle behind somebody who's just coming in.

Now, there is a building I reviewed this just north of the University Bridge where the opening time of that door was like 1.3 seconds.

I mean, that's all it took for that door to open.

It stayed open long enough for a car to pass and it closed at 1.3 seconds.

as opposed to our city hall garage, which the door takes, I don't know, two, three hours for it to go open.

I mean, it just chugs along.

Far too long of an opening speed, far too long of a opening time.

I would actually look at reducing the time that door stays open and reducing the amount of time it takes for that door to actually open and close so we can prevent those people who have ill intent, usually breaking into somebody's car from following in behind somebody.

And I've seen that happen in the Jackson Place neighborhood and the Alki neighborhood.

People just tailgating behind someone who's pulling into their condo.

So we actually just installed a garage door in our 900 Rainier project that is incredibly fast as a result of our conversations.

And it's not, the additional cost is so minimal, but it is so effective.

So that's the kind of thing.

It's very, these are small changes, but they're really impactful.

Other questions?

Those are all my questions.

Thank you.

It was really helpful.

Other questions from Council Member's House?

No further questions.

No further questions.

Okay, great.

Council Member Rivera?

Okay, great.

Well, with that, I want to thank my colleagues here, well, colleagues, my friends.

They're my colleagues.

I want to thank my friends for coming and being part of this presentation, sharing your expertise and your thoughts as folks who are building housing in this community as to the benefits of codifying CEPTED, what some of the drawbacks may be, what some of the incentives may be.

We definitely appreciate your expertise in this area, and I look forward to working with you to crafting something that we can get across the finish line.

Thank you very much for asking us.

It's a pleasure to be able to share this kind of stuff to try and have the best possible decisions made about your next steps here.

But if you would like any further input, we can certainly ask some of our peers as well to review whatever pilots you come up with or things like that.

Yeah, I think that they call that stakeholdering.

It's that new term I've learned.

It's like, I take that as talking to people, right?

So yes, we'd love to have further conversations.

Happy to help with that.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Lisa.

Thank you, Laurie.

Nice.

All right, we have reached the end of our agenda.

Are there any further items for business or discussion?

Okay, hearing none, I will call the January, excuse me, June.

18th Committee of the Land Use Committee to an end.

Our next meeting will be July 2nd, Wednesday, July 2nd at 2 p.m.

So with no further business, it is 3.34 p.m.

and we are adjourned.

Thank you very much, everyone.

Thank you.