SPEAKER_99

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13

Okay, good afternoon.

The Public Safety Committee meeting will come to order.

It's 2.02 p.m., July 31st, 2024. I'm Robert Kettle, chair of the Public Safety Committee.

Will the committee clerk please call the roll?

SPEAKER_24

Councilmember Hollingsworth.

Present.

Councilmember Moore.

Present.

Council President Nelson.

Present.

Councilmember Saka.

Here.

Chair Kettle.

Here.

Chair, there are five members present and Council Member Morales is also signed on online.

SPEAKER_13

Okay, welcome Council Member Morales joining in remotely.

Appreciate you joining us.

If there is no objection, the agenda will be adopted.

Hearing and seeing no objection, the agenda is adopted.

For the chair report, I wanted to make some remarks today.

FIRST, THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR JOINING US.

AS NOTED, THERE'S BEEN MANY ARTICLES AND COMMENTARY AND SO FORTH RELATED SINCE OUR LAST MEETING ON THE TOPIC OF JAILS, CORRECTIONAL FACILITIES, STAFFING, AND BOOKING, SO I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THE FOLLOWING.

FIRST, THERE'S BEEN QUITE A BIT, VERY MUCH, STAKEHOLDERING THAT'S BEEN DONE ON THE SCORE ILA, AND IT CONTINUES, AND IMPORTANTLY, IT CONTINUES.

SO I WANT TO THANK ALL THAT ARE INVOLVED, TO INCLUDE SPECIFICALLY MR. MEYERBURG.

I myself have visited SCORE, but I've also visited King County Jail, the King County Correctional Facility, and the Issaquah Jail.

All very professional.

The tours were great.

All are accredited and all provided great insight in terms of how they conduct their business and how the jails were working.

On SCORE, I wanted to note that I took a SEIU 925 letter, and they're the union that represents the public defenders, that was sent to me.

I took it to SCORE and asked their questions verbatim.

And I believe the answers that I got from the director of SCORE SHOW THAT THE, INDICATE THAT THE ISSUES CAN BE WORKED, PARTICULARLY THROUGH THE PROCESS THAT MR. MEYERBURG IS DOING ON BEHALF OF THE MAYOR'S TEAM.

I ALSO HAD A VERY GOOD TOUR OF THE KING COUNTY JAIL, VERY PROFESSIONAL.

I UNDERSTAND THEIR STAFFING CHALLENGES.

IT'S MUCH LIKE THE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE WITH SBD STAFFING.

YOU KNOW, I LOOK AT THAT VERY MUCH A MATTER OF THE FACT.

AND AGAIN, I WANTED TO THANK THE D.A.J.D. TEAM DEPUTY LARSON, AND SPECIFICALLY THE COMMANDER OF THE CORRECTIONAL FORCE.

AGAIN, A VERY GREAT TOUR, AND THEY'RE DOING GREAT WORK.

THEY'RE PROFESSIONAL, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE CHALLENGES THAT THEY'RE FACING WITH THEIR STAFFING.

AGAIN, MUCH LIKE WE'RE SEEING HERE WITH OUR SEATTLE PD.

ON THE QUESTION OF MEETINGS, THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT MEETINGS BETWEEN KING COUNTY AND SEATTLE.

I JUST WANTED TO NOTE THAT WE DID HOLD A MEETING WITH KING COUNTY ON THE ISSUE OF JAILS.

It included King County Deputy Executive Braddock, King County Council Member Dembowski, DAJD's Director and Deputy Director, Director Nance and Deputy Larson, along with King County Sheriff Colton Dell.

And on our side, Seattle, we had myself and Council Member Moore, City Attorney Davison, our Deputy Scott Lindsey, the Mayor's Office represented by Mr. Meyerberg and Chief Rohr.

and staff as well.

It was a great discussion.

Again, matter of fact, highlighting the challenges that we're facing, highlighting the challenge that the Seattle police officers are facing, but also the King County Sheriff's deputies.

And it was really interesting to work through the discussion and highlight that, yes, we need to look at the governing memo, an idea that was brought up by Council Member Dembowski, and I'll look to do that.

And I'd like to do that with my counterpart on the King County Council, King County Council Member and Law and Justice Chair Barone, he was not at the meeting and as highlighted in these articles, that's an area that we need to do better on.

I've done at least three meetings with Council Member Barone out in community that have been really public safety and public health focused, but I've not had a one-on-one meeting with my counterpart on the King County Jail to talk about the issues that we're facing on our streets and our neighborhoods and our communities.

And so we do have a meeting now scheduled, and I will look to continue that on a regular basis, either monthly or quarterly at least.

And so I just wanted to note this because I know there's been a lot of talk.

I just wanted to give that baseline.

I also wanted to note, because it's important to note too, the situation with the jail and bookings is critical to what we're facing.

It's critical to our strategic framework plan as we look to tackle the permissive environment underlying our public safety challenges.

YOU KNOW, IF WE CANNOT BOOK THOSE THAT NEED TO BE BOOKED IN JAIL FOR MISDEMEANOR CRIMES, IT OFTEN LEADS TO CONTINUAL CHALLENGES THAT WE SEE IN OUR COMMUNITIES, WHETHER IT'S IN DISTRICT 7, YOU KNOW, THIRD PIKE AND PINE, MAYBE IN BELLTOWN.

WE TALKED ABOUT ALKAI AND D1.

COUNCILMEMBER MOORE ON AURORA UP NORTH.

WE NEED TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THESE CHALLENGES THAT WE FACE.

AND TO BE CLEAR, WE, ALL OF US, I'M INCLUDED, WE BELIEVE IN DIVERSION PROGRAMS.

WE BELIEVE IN THOSE EFFORTS.

BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO LOOK AT THE OTHER ASPECTS, TOO.

AND I UNDERSTAND THE EMPHASIS ZONES ALLOW BOOKINGS, AND I'M THANKFUL TO THE COUNTY ACTING, AS RECENTLY HAPPENED, WITH CHIEF ROAR'S REQUEST.

SO I APPRECIATE THE COUNTY RESPONDING TO HER REQUEST, WHICH I THINK WAS A WEEK AGO, MAYBE TWO WEEKS AGO NOW.

AND THAT'S VERY HELPFUL.

AND THAT'S GOING TO HELP KEY AREAS OF WEST PRECINCT, INCLUDING DISTRICT 7. AND SO WHILE D7, THOUGH, CONVERSELY, IN REGARDING BOOKINGS, While D7 has helped, we still have our challenges in District 1. Like we talked about Alki with street racing.

In District 2, what we've seen there in Council Member Morales' office district, Council Member Hollingsworth's in District 3, And as noted, up in five as well.

And really all seven districts throughout the city.

And so that's the challenge that we face in terms of dealing with those basically public safety challenges that don't have the ability to book in jail.

To close, we face severe public safety challenges.

And one of the things I like to note is that we need to lead with compassion, we need to start with empathy in terms of the challenges that we face, but we also have to have the wisdom to look at the bigger picture, to look at what's the impact on our communities, what's the impact on our neighborhoods.

I have walked third from James up to Pine.

I've walked the neighborhoods many times in Belltown and other parts of District 7. Those communities are hurting.

I've talked to residents that are scared as they're walking back to their apartment or condo buildings.

I've talked to businesses, small and big, that have shut down or about to shut down because of the what's happening in front of their storefronts.

And these things are real.

So we have to have the wisdom to look at the bigger picture as well, because in the long run, if we don't take care of that, we're not going to be able to be compassionate and empathetic to those that are in need in the long run.

And, you know, in my 100-day letter, I noticed, noted that our mandate is from the voters at Seattle City Council, especially within the public safety community, is to help keep Seattle safe.

And from a vision point of view, we envision a future where families feel safe sending their children on the bus to school, that businesses can operate without paying for private security, and that the city can respond, importantly, in a timely, appropriate manner to the people experiencing acute crises.

This is key for us to do as a committee and as a council.

And one final point that I want to note, and this goes to some of the commentary related to our partners here in Seattle City Council, is that in 2022 and 2023, we had City Attorney Davison.

In 2022 and 23, we had Mayor Harrell.

The difference in 24 is a new council and a new committee.

And we are working with the executive branch and the judicial branch in a one Seattle way early.

We're not waiting.

where we're engaging early from a staff perspective and with seniors on both sides, you know, the executive and the judicial coming from the legislative perspective to address these challenges.

And bottom line is we are getting our public safety shop in order.

So with that said, clerk, I believe that we have more in terms of registered public speakers.

So Each speaker will have one minute as we start public comment.

And we will start with in-person speakers first, 10 at a time.

Clerk, can you please read the public comment instructions?

SPEAKER_24

Currently we have 17 in-person speakers signed up and there are 24 remote speakers.

The public comment period will be moderated in the following manner.

The public comment period is up to 60 minutes.

Speakers will be called in the order in which they registered.

Speakers will alternate between sets in person and remote speakers between the public comment period has ended.

Speakers will hear a chime when 10 seconds are left of their time.

Speakers' mics will be muted if they do not end their comments within the allotted time to allow us to call in the next speaker.

The public comment period is now open and we will begin with the first speaker on the list.

The first speaker, the first in-person speaker is Alex Zimmerman, followed by Anita Condeval.

SPEAKER_13

Before we start, Mr. Zimmerman, before we start, I just wanted to note, yesterday and previously, we've had some disruptions with clapping.

I just wanted to recommend and encourage everybody, if you do want to make some type of motion to do the snaps, please.

I think we can do the snaps.

In fact, can we all practice snaps?

Okay, let's do that, because the clapping and some of the other...

It's very stupid.

SPEAKER_50

All civilized people clap.

All civilized people clap.

SPEAKER_13

Yes.

I don't know.

Please.

SPEAKER_50

Okay, where is my time?

Uh-huh.

Yep.

Start.

I don't know.

A bandita and killer, you know what it means.

My name is Alex Zimmerman.

One minute for jail is an idiotic situation.

I'm so sorry for you, my friend.

Yeah, not my friend, yeah.

So two months ago, I'm in jail for two days.

Bellevue police, you know what it means.

It's very...

Dirty policeman that has prosecuted me politically four times for the last 30 years.

Put me in jail for two days.

Guys, I think German Nazi concentration camp is better than this jail.

Dirty, back, everything.

You're talking about put people inside?

Who's a criminal?

So criminal is not a human?

Who are you, Nazi pig?

What is jail camp?

Go with me together for inspection.

You know what it means.

And I put you.

So only different between Nazi Gestapo concentration camp.

They don't have a crematorium.

You will go with me together for inspection?

SPEAKER_13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Next up, we have Anita Kondiwal, followed by Julie Behabout.

SPEAKER_01

Good afternoon.

My name is Anita Candela.

I'm the King County public defender.

Mayor Harrell states that the goal of this pilot is to give us needed flexibility, capacity, and stability in jail options, ensuring clear and consistent accountability for individuals based on their actions.

The statement is curious.

It presumes the guilt of people who are presumed innocent, and it sounds like a desire to punish, without any judicial process, those living in misery on the streets of our city.

And even through that lens, this kind of punishment hasn't proven effective.

The downtown jail already allows for booking targets of the city attorney's High Utilizer Initiative.

One of the people booked under that initiative has been booked four times in the last five months, with two stays of exactly 24 hours in the same week, the exact strategy the city is pursuing with SCORE.

Did those bookings deter him from continuing to steal groceries?

They did not.

He's now facing prosecution for a felony burglary charge.

and will be just as hungry and unhoused as he was when he was booked in.

As King County's recent experiences with this very jail show, this plan to transport people outside of the city of Seattle and incarcerate them will waste millions of taxpayer dollars at best, and at worst, it will be a deadly mistake for those people who are incarcerated.

I urge you to reject this proposal.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

We have Juliet Beabout and followed by Austin Freeld.

Freeld.

Sorry if I pronounced your name wrong.

Julia, go ahead.

SPEAKER_47

OK.

SPEAKER_99

102, 144, 147.

SPEAKER_47

That's how many drug users have been at Third and Pike over the last few days.

Let me be clear.

These are not cumulative numbers.

They are the number of simultaneous drug users on the block at any given time.

And while I'd like to say this is unusual, it is not.

I am a Third and Pike resident, and on average we have between 100 and 200 drug users on our block at any given time.

The recent fentanyl audit report provides clear and compelling data on the co-occurrence of drug use and crime.

Third and Pike is at the top of their list.

We do not want to further victimize .

But we need a balanced approach that gives the police the authority, power, and capacity to act.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

We have Austin.

I think it's you.

Sorry.

Followed by Gary Gossett.

SPEAKER_19

So my name is Austin Field.

I am a homeowner.

I'm a Seattle resident.

I am a combat veteran, and I'm a member of SEIU 925. I'm a King County public defender.

Um, people are rightfully fed up about the situation in our city.

It's a tragedy and they want action.

And this is not action.

This is theater.

What you're proposing is to spend $2 million a year to have Seattle police officers, the same people who you've told us are supposed to be spending their time preventing murders and DUIs and all kinds of other terrible things, shuttling, uh, shoplifters and specifically shoplifters accused of shoplifting less than $750 merchandise because anything above that is a felony and people accused of property destruction but destroying property less than $750 because anything above that is a felony and of course any theft committed with a weapon is also a felony and they can already be booked you want Seattle police to shuttle those people to Des Moines and back over and over again to have them held for a day and then released that's nothing this is theater this isn't action and now I'm gonna go get some people out of jail

SPEAKER_24

We have Larry Gossett, and then we'll be transitioning to our first set of online speakers.

Peter Condit will be up first.

SPEAKER_13

I'd like to welcome former council member Gossett.

Welcome to the Seattle City Council Chambers.

Welcome.

I didn't know that Alex was still around.

SPEAKER_00

He is.

I got to know him very well during the 25 years that I served on the Martin Luther King County Council.

But I'm here today to speak.

directly to the issue that the other speakers have spoken about.

The one that deals with putting misdemeanor city offenders in the score jail.

At our Reparations meeting last Wednesday, Seattle African American Reparations Committee, several African American citizens came to the meeting and said we're upset that the city council wants to put all the misdemeanors in the jail because the King County government cannot keep misdemeanors in jail long enough to suit them.

My time is up already.

Close.

You got a few seconds.

OK.

Long enough to suit them and they wanted to be able to stay in jail longer.

But today when I got here, I read the, uh, actual, uh, ordinance or that you have, and it's much more balanced.

It talks about alternatives to incarceration that would be made available to city misdemeanor offenders.

But we're very concerned if To whatever extent, the city council has put an emphasis on wanting to put inmates, citizens of Seattle, in the jails that can keep them longer than they can be kept in King County.

And that's particularly offensive to the African-American community because we are way overrepresented here.

in every jail in this nation.

And it has a lot to do with racism besides being an offender or needing medical help.

So we would like for you to consider before passing this legislation, the reasons that people perceive that you're doing it and take that into consideration before you make your final decision.

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_13

And balance is the key word.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

All right.

Next up, we're going to our online remote speakers.

The first remote speaker is Peter Condit.

Please press star six when you hear the prompt of you have been unmuted.

SPEAKER_22

Good afternoon.

My name is Peter Condit.

I'm a community member and parent in Green Lake.

I'm calling to ask that council members vote no on expanding deadly incarceration by contracting with a private facility.

Too many people have already died at SCORE, including but not limited to McKenna Buckland, Angela Majore, and Nicole Burghardt.

Loved ones who may or may not pose a danger to themselves or others deserve support and financial resources, not exclusion and neglect.

And I'll note, I listened to the chair's comments in the beginning.

I'll say that anyone who supports jailing out of fear for your neighbors, however valid that may be, is not a reason to throw compassion out the window.

Jails are not critical in our community if you actually care about and invest in diversion efforts and non-police responses to harm.

The SCORE contract would not only be cruel in and of itself, but also it would consume millions of public dollars that could otherwise be spent on compassionate and constructive initiatives.

Thank you for listening.

Please vote no on the SCORE contract.

SPEAKER_24

Next up, we have Megan Cruz followed by Kate Rubin.

Megan Cruz, please press star six.

SPEAKER_36

Good afternoon.

I'm Megan Cruz, another resident of Third and Pike and Pine Corridor, where drugs and violence are dominating central blocks.

My neighbors and I witness and have been caught in the middle of violent acts, just passing by at the wrong place and wrong time.

People trapped in the street scene are frequently the victims of violent assault.

In this free-for-all, jailing everyone who commits a low-level crime is impossible and it's wrong, and fortunately, it's not the answer.

Law enforcement and social services both tell us repeat offenders are responsible for much of this chaos.

Without these consequences, however, Individuals are not motivated to stop or follow through with a diversion program.

This is why the city needs more capacity.

Detention centers everywhere require oversight, but by failing to take the worst offenders off the street, the city is prioritizing their safety over all others, keeping us in.

Please act now.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Next up, we have Kate Rubin and followed by Natalie Schmidt.

SPEAKER_44

My name is Kate Rubin.

I'm the organizing director of Be Seattle and a District 2 constituent.

I urge you to vote no on the proposed contract with SCORE.

Spending over $2 million annually to incarcerate people for low-level misdemeanors at SCORE is fiscally irresponsible, especially with the $250 million budget deficit.

King County ended its contract with SCORE after just three months, and it's embarrassing that Seattle is considering the same mistake.

Criminalizing low-level offenses perpetuates poverty, instability, and homelessness.

We need to invest in services that actually improve public safety, like affordable housing, mental health support, and community programs.

This performative legislation does nothing to address the real issues that we face.

Instead, we must secure progressive revenue streams to fund these essential services and create real safety and stability in our community.

This council promised good governance.

Please follow through and reject this legislation.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Next up is Natalie Schmidt, followed by Flora Wright.

SPEAKER_35

My name is Natalie Schmidt.

I live in the Central District, and I'm here to demand that the council vote no on the score contract.

The city attorney's office claims, and we've been told at this meeting, that misdemeanor booking restrictions are having an impact on public safety, but that is a self-serving lie.

People who are arrested for violent misdemeanors are still booked into jail.

Nonviolent misdemeanors do not pose a threat to public safety.

They pose a threat to big businesses and well-off Seattle residents who feel uncomfortable when they see someone less fortunate.

Furthermore, there have been six deaths at SCORE in the past year alone.

If this deal goes through, being arrested for a misdemeanor carries a very real risk of execution.

I do not think anyone deserves to die for being accused of a misdemeanor, and I am appalled that the council is asking us to countenance this.

The $2 million the council is considering spending on this contract would be much better spent on affordable housing and social services.

Please vote against this barbaric deal and redirect those funds to social programs that will actually benefit all Seattleites.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

All right.

Thank you.

Last up for our set of remote speakers is Flora Wright.

SPEAKER_33

Hello, I'm Flora Wright, a Seattle resident calling in to oppose CB 120825. At least six people, including 21-year-old McKenna Buckland, 43-year-old Angela Majore, and 60-year-old Leanne Renfro, have died at SCORE since March 2023 due to malnutrition, dehydration, low electrolyte levels, renal failure, failure to provide acute detox care, injury, and other unspecified causes.

SCORE has still not filed reports with the Department of Health on two of the deaths last year, even though they're required to within 120 days.

And SCORE contracts with for-profit health care company Wellpass, which has come under congressional scrutiny for use of restraints on inmates and denying life-saving treatments.

Furthermore, a public defender's union described various violations of the constitutional right to an attorney at SCORE, including a lack of phone services and poor transportation to court appearances.

The director of public defense said that the jail contract will waste scarce city dollars and worsen public safety.

The city doesn't have money for a $2 million contract, while essential services are facing funding cuts.

Finally, this legislation is being rushed without adequate time for public comment.

Vote no and reject the contract with SCORE, which would be life-threatening for predominantly poor and housing disproportionately black folks incarcerated there.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Next up in our in-person speakers is David S. Levinson.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

I'm a resident and owner in Belltown since 2000. I urge you to vote yes.

You walk Bell Street, you walk Lenora Street, you can't.

Today, there's two, three, tents up by mamas selling drugs right out in the open.

Nothing happens.

People are afraid to walk in Belltown.

I know, I walk it every day because I'm dumb.

But other than that, you wouldn't do it.

Please.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

We have Jay Dobbs up next, and followed by Joseph Lockman.

SPEAKER_09

Hey, council members.

Thank you for hearing me.

Kettle, I'm District 7. If you vote yes on this, we can vote you out.

I do not want our tax dollars going to a new jail.

We don't need more jails.

We need to house the homeless.

I'm formerly homeless.

I'm no longer homeless because I'm a benefactor of Seattle's Housing First policy.

And so instead of putting homeless people in jail, just give them homes.

Homeless people, and I'm talking to you as an experience, homeless people commit crimes, they go to jails, they go to murder...

All of that costs taxpayers a lot of dollars.

It's less expensive to just house the homeless.

Do the right thing.

Fuck a new jail.

SPEAKER_24

Next up is Joseph Lockman.

SPEAKER_49

Hello, council members.

My name is Joseph Shoji Lockman.

I'm the policy manager at Asian Counseling and Referral Service, and I'm here on their behalf.

I'm also a candidate for a master's in public health here to urge you to vote no on the contract for SCORE.

Speaking especially from a public health perspective, I'm deeply concerned with the number of folks who have died in the facility, the fact that King County almost immediately ended their contract with them, the fact that a woman last May 43 years old, died of malnutrition.

And just on top of this, this is just an incredible waste of taxpayer dollars to be moving folks back and forth to this facility.

And just further adds to just an incredibly disturbing track record that the City of Seattle has had on human rights abuses related to law enforcement and the carceral state.

And I would urge you, please do the right thing here.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Next up is Kevin Dares to be followed by Kelly Bryan.

SPEAKER_21

I don't need to sit here and rehash all the horrors we face in our community from the sexual assaults to the burglaries to most recently the email many of you received on the children, the girls 12 and 13 being trafficked in our neighborhoods.

We're talking misdemeanors, and I hear a lot of people saying people who perform violent misdemeanors still go to jail when I haven't seen it.

I haven't seen it in my neighborhood.

You can assault somebody in my neighborhood and that same day be on our doorstep.

I don't know what we're doing.

We have to quit operating under ideologies where we believe we can only rehabilitate or we can only incarcerate.

There has to be a balance.

There are many people in the street who rehabilitation is appropriate for.

But if we're honest with ourselves, there's a lot of pressure.

who, unless they're held accountable and put in jail, won't stop doing what they're doing.

You know this.

You've seen this.

Please approve SCORE.

SPEAKER_24

We have Kelly Bryan, and then we will pivot back to Randy Banneker on remote speaking.

SPEAKER_14

Good afternoon.

I am a longtime Belltown resident.

And I no longer feel very safe walking the streets, walking to the local grocery store.

I see people disappear from our neighborhood for a week or two, and then they're right back out there doing the same thing.

rampant open drug use, and if you ask people to please move and not smoke below your balcony or outside your front door, you get not a very positive response.

So yeah, it's scary out there.

I keep patting my pocket because I don't have my pepper spray in my pocket and it feels weird.

That's all I have, thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Okay, back to Randy Banneker on remote speaking.

Reminder, please press star six before you start going.

Randy, you're ready to speak.

Are you there, Randy?

All right, Randy, we're going to move on to the next one.

I'm going to come back to you.

Breneia Quander.

Please press star six, Breneia.

SPEAKER_37

Hello.

SPEAKER_41

My name is Breneia Quander, and I'm a co-chair on the Seattle Human Rights Commission.

I'm speaking today in opposition of Council Bill 120825. This Council Bill is a misguided effort in trying to address misdemeanor crime.

The estimated $2 million contract between the city and SCORE only adds to the mass incarceration problem instead of supporting real changes that can reduce and avoid the so-called need for extra beds.

It was reported by central staff that the contract would pay approximately $260,000 and over time for SBD to move incarcerated individuals from one place to another.

It seems like with the staffing issues SBD faces, officers should be available for something more meaningful rather than being a taxi system.

This is money that could be used to support community corrections, alternatives to incarceration, and necessary social services.

The City of Seattle must use its funds in a responsible manner.

Further contributing to mass incarceration is not responsible.

Gore has also shown that it does not treat incarcerated individuals with dignity and raises human rights concerns.

Please do not support this misguided legislation and vote no on Council Bill 120825. Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Brianna.

Sorry for mispronouncing your name.

Next up, we have Alberto Alvarez.

SPEAKER_18

Thank you.

No to a contract with SCORE.

This council will plan to make being homeless a crime.

Making poverty a crime is vile and inhumane.

Nonviolent drug users do not deserve to be hauled off to some jail where this year six people have died.

At the same time, wasting money on police overtime for the one-hour round trip out of the city, not accounting for the intake time.

City attorney needs to focus on adjudicating violent crimes.

No to this contract.

Do better, a lot better.

I yield my time, thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Alberto.

Next up, we have Emeka Alozi.

And then after that, we'll try and go back to Randy Banneker.

Emeka, you are up.

SPEAKER_30

Can you guys hear me?

SPEAKER_24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_30

Good afternoon, City Council members.

My name is Emeka Lozi, and I'm a co-chair on the Seattle Human Rights Commission.

I'm here to express my strong opposition to the proposed ordinance of Council Bill 12825. This proposal risks deepening the cycle of criminalization, particularly for our most vulnerable residents, rather than addressing the root causes of the behavior it seeks to punish.

For a while, Seattle has long championed restorative justice and community-based initiatives.

In 2011, we led initiatives like the LEAD program, one of the first pre-arrest diversion programs in the country.

In 2012, we led the launch of Seattle Community Police Commission, which even now continues to fight for equitable justice reform.

In 2025, we led initiatives like Youth Opportunity Court for Youth, and in 2020, we led the launch of Just Care for Unsheltered.

Through these programs, we've deterred a lot of people from jail and saved many lives.

I can go on and on with how forward-thinking Seattle can be, yet this ordinance seems to be taking us backwards.

Far worse, it is empowering private equity for-profit healthcare providers like Wellpass, which has repeatedly shown on both the local and national level that they do not care for our most vulnerable whatsoever.

If we need acute measures, let's create wounds that heal and not scar.

Please vote no.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

We're going back to Randy Banneker.

Please press star six.

Randy, go ahead.

Okay, we're going to try again later.

Last up for this set of remote speakers, Oliver Misca.

SPEAKER_11

Can you hear me?

This is Randy.

SPEAKER_24

Yep, we can hear you.

Go ahead.

Thank you.

Apologies for the confusion.

SPEAKER_11

Chair Kettle, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to comment.

My name is Randy Banneker, and I thank you for your leadership on the score option before you today.

King County has let us down when our police officers have someone they need to get off the streets to keep us safe, and King County says the jail is closed for the evening.

That's a huge problem and perpetuates the permissive environment we continue to experience throughout the city.

Misdemeanor behavior has a real impact on our quality of life, and the prosperity of businesses in Seattle.

Over and over, we hear from retailers experiencing broken windows, graffiti, and unruly sidewalk behavior that's taking a severe toll on their prosperity and willingness to keep their doors open.

Too often, residents, young and old and throughout the city, confront aggressive, threatening behavior that makes them wish they never left the house.

That's not our Seattle.

It must change.

Exploring alternatives to King County Jail is a modest but important step forward.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Andy.

Last up, we have Oliver Misca before pivoting back to in-person and Jeff Granville will be up first.

Oliver, please press star six and then you're ready to go.

SPEAKER_29

Hi, my name is Oliver Miska.

I'm an educator, a member of a very different score, the Seattle Caucus of Rank-and-File Educators, an advocate for non-carceral practices and the tradition of abolition.

In the opening remarks, I heard a lot about compassion, and I heard about diversion, and I heard about the tours that you've made of local jails, Councilmember Kettle.

And as someone who's received less friendly tours of, you know, jail facilities.

I can say that these are not fun and professional as you might make them seem.

Recent reports also will indicate that and I don't I'm going to spare everyone just going over again countless deaths that have happened in these facilities.

You know we we bring up crime to justify detention often and I too you know I'm from Seattle walk around.

I also have fear but Fear doesn't justify carceral practices, especially when we're cutting programs that are doing that kind of work, like LEAD and the mental health funding that we promised youth.

The one Seattle way you keep mentioning is a dangerous form of consensus governing, and I urge you to oppose this performative carceral bill.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Oliver.

We are now Jeff Granville.

SPEAKER_04

Hello, everyone.

I'd like to share that I am scheduled to work at Concept One.

I'm sorry.

Can you pull it up closer?

Better?

Yeah.

Okay.

I'm here to share that I am scheduled to work in Belltown a few days a week at Concept One.

And when I travel into that area, it's an immediate night and day from most other places in the city, which you are aware of.

And that area requires emergent attention beyond the scope of this debate and this vote.

Those areas in town need emergent help.

or more businesses will be shut down and more people will lose life and limb.

But all of this is focusing on the symptom of a dysfunctional society where trauma is the root cause and the gateway to all drugs and mental illness.

And until we look at trauma as the root cause and treat it, we will continue to see this cycle repeat over and over and over again.

Four days a week, I work in the mental health industry and I see what happens and this is why we need to focus on this topic.

SPEAKER_24

Next up, we have Cadman Maglos Cahill, followed by Sarah Clark.

SPEAKER_03

Good afternoon.

My name is Cadman Maglos Cahill, and I'm representing the ACLU of Washington to urge you not to move forward with the proposal agreement with SCORE.

Pretrial detention as a tool to disrupt unwanted behaviors is a false choice.

This agreement will negatively affect the future safety of both the people who would be incarcerated and our broader community.

Public safety is not served by destabilizing people, and that is exactly what this agreement would do.

The harms of pretrial detention for those charged with nonviolent misdemeanors the people were focused on today are well documented.

Even one to two days of jail increases the risk of recidivism and leads to worse health and housing outcomes.

Few decisions carry as much weight as a city official as a choice of whether to incarcerate an individual.

Ensuring safety within correctional facilities is non-negotiable, and the city's duty to protect from harm, access to medical care, and mental well-being is critical.

I urge you to examine the practicality of the warm handoff to providers being offered.

Consider the six deaths at score in fewer than two years.

And that the Washington Supreme Court just ruled that virtual court hearings are unconstitutional.

The ACLU urges to reject this proposed ordinance.

SPEAKER_24

Next up, we have Sarah Clark, followed by Rebecca Sayre.

SPEAKER_45

Hi, my name is Sarah Clark and I represent the over 2,500 members of the Seattle Metropolitan Chamber of Commerce, 85% of whom are small businesses who have struggled to keep up with the additional costs that our city's public safety and behavioral health crisis have brought to their doors.

This is on top of the fact that due to low foot traffic from residents, many still have not recovered financially from the pandemic.

While laws currently on the books are designed to address some of these pressing public safety challenges, the current situation with the King County Jail does not provide the necessary capacity our city requires.

Our most recent installment of the index we conducted in spring showed that Seattle voters yet again identified that public safety is a top concern, impacting their quality of life.

Voters want action from the city to address these fundamental issues.

Roughly eight in 10 believe that addressing property crime and helping businesses deal with public safety concerns would improve quality of life.

Please support this proposal.

SPEAKER_24

Rebecca Sayre is up next, followed by Kathleen Burrows, and then we'll pivot back to remote commenters.

SPEAKER_32

It's painful to be here today talking about this.

I kind of hate the idea that I'm advocating for opening up a private jail.

I guess I want to say that that seems like it's possibly the solution we need right now.

I'm still learning about these issues.

I'm not here feeling equipped to advocate on all the funding cuts and all the other things that should be done or could be done.

But I can tell you this.

On my way here from my home where I was working from home, not that wealthy, I'm a single woman, just for one of the callers that was on earlier, the wealthy satellite thing kind of sticks to my craw.

Actually working to help some of my clients and neighbors pursue some of their goals, that's in my work.

And I couldn't get out my front door of my building on Third Avenue because it was blocked with people smoking fentanyl.

I opened up the door and I said, please move.

move out of our doorway.

They're like, you move out of the doorway.

People on the 3rd and Pike Corridor, they're starting to act like they own it, and they are threatening, and it is scary.

Every day.

Every day.

Morning, noon, and night.

And all I know is that is not okay for us or our city.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Last up for this section is Kathleen Brose.

First up...

and remote commenters will be Cam Orgaard.

SPEAKER_23

Good afternoon.

My name is Kathleen Brose.

I live in downtown Ballard.

I see open drug use.

I just sent you an email and a photo of what I saw yesterday in front of the ballot box.

I have compassion.

I care about people who have trauma.

This is the way of the world.

It's been this way in all recorded history.

But the number one priority of our city government is to keep the public safe.

Many individuals who commit crimes are repeat offenders.

Those who commit misdemeanor crimes such as repeat shoplifting, graffiti, destruction of both personal and public property, and dangerous street racing, and then there's the prostitution and the crime that comes with it on Aurora.

If these people are not incarcerated, How are they gonna learn?

We need more jail space.

It's just something we have to keep the public safe.

And you need the revenues from businesses to help pay for these services.

We all have to work together on this.

This is just the way it is.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

All right, we're going to Cam Orgaard.

reminder to please press star six.

SPEAKER_20

Good afternoon.

My name is Cam Orgard.

I'm the district services manager for the Soto Business Improvement Area.

I'm here to express our support for the additional addition of jail beds at the square facility as a means to facilitate public safety improvements and address the significant property crime in our neighborhood.

In Soto, we have consistently seen SPD arrest people for break-ins, vandalism, arson, and other property-related crimes, and consistently the King County Jail refuses to admit them.

And they're back on the streets repeating the same behavior within hours.

We believe that this measure, while temporary, is necessary while the city is expanding the care team, rebuilding SPD, and investing in programs to divert people away from or out of the legal system when applicable, and will go a long way in showing the city's dedication to public safety and crime reduction.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

All right, next up of our remote commenters, Katie Gendry, followed by Chris Allen.

SPEAKER_43

Hello, my name is Katie Gendry, and I have years of experience building deep relationships with unsheltered people.

I treat everyone with respect and compassion.

After talking with and listening to hundreds of unsheltered people, I have never felt unsafe, but I am concerned about everyone being safe and healthy.

Do not invest in SCORE and jailing misdemeanor defendants.

No to ordinance number 120825. Jail does not equate to justice.

Dr. Cornel West said, justice is what love looks like in public, just like tenderness is what love feels like in private.

Jail does not prevent violence.

Jail does not heal people.

Jailing people won't keep you safe.

To be safe, we must address the underlying issues behind violence, which are unmet needs perpetuated by poverty, lack of resources and opportunities, and lack of voluntary, low-barrier mental health and substance use support.

We desperately need to implement systems of care with social support networks, housing, voluntary low-barrier community health options.

Unfortunately, we live under capitalism, which only cares about profit and not people.

Locked facilities do not provide healing, resources, and care, which are the best proven solutions to invest in to reduce crime.

Please do not invest in caging people.

Please invest instead in community.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Next up, we have Chris Allen.

SPEAKER_27

Hello, my name is Chris Allen.

I'm a Belltown resident.

I encourage the council to vote yes on the contract with SCORE.

So anytime I walk outside my Belltown apartment, I'm greeted with drug dealing, rampant drug use, theft.

And this environment has caused many businesses to close in my neighborhood, which has caused inconveniences for us residents.

For example, I shopped in Target the other day.

It took me 12 minutes.

to get a $15 bottle of laundry detergent because it was locked behind plexiglass.

Many things there are locked behind plexiglass.

And now I find myself shopping more and more online because of this, which further depresses business activity in Belltown.

And this is essentially the doom loop in action.

And then finally, I'm a firm believer in broken windows theory.

So we can't deter low-level crime, so we can't deter other crime.

So Miles Hudson, the Deltown Hellcat, he was on YouTube just the other day talking about, you know, why does the city come after me for a loud car when other people in my neighborhood are doing drugs, dealing drugs, committing theft?

So I'm all in favor of this.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Next up, we have Ted Hastings to be followed by Kate Martin.

SPEAKER_10

My name is Ted Hastings.

I'm a Seattle homeowner and a father of two.

Like so many in this city, public safety has really been my top concern recently, and I know the city's got to do better.

All you who are new to the council, most of you ran on issues of good governance, working collaboratively with others in the system, and responsible budgeting.

I want to talk about all those three in turn.

First of all, with regard to responsible budgeting.

You know, I really feel for the folks who are there who live in Belltown and the Pike Pine Corridor.

We're talking about acts of violence, drug sales, sexual assault, burglaries, all the things they're going through.

It's a tragedy.

It's really a shame.

Unfortunately, if this legislation is passed, those are the things that SBB, who have a staffing crisis, are not going to be dealing with while they're driving shoplifters to Des Moines.

Also, all those are either felonies or serious misdemeanors that are already bookable.

Additionally, with regard to responsible budgeting, I know the council got a letter recently from Seattle Municipal Court talking about the intense strain that's going to be put on the SMC market.

If these people are put in score, that's a problem.

With regard to collaboration, uh council member kettle said that he's been working with the executive and the judicial but he named the mayor and the city attorney which are both executive that's not judicial smc already sent a letter they're not in favor of this it's concerning to me that the public defenders backed out of the conversation about this because they felt their voices weren't being heard and then also i see the council is not working effectively with king county jail has already made exceptions to its booking policies for high utilizers.

And more recently, they've agreed to book nonviolent misdemeanors from the downtown activation zone, which actually includes Belltown and the pipeline corridor.

So the folks talking about needing to put people into score to solve problems, they're kind of missing the point.

I guess they didn't hear the news.

And then finally, we're talking about- Thank you, Ted.

SPEAKER_24

Next up, we have Kate Martin.

SPEAKER_38

Hi.

Thank you.

This is Kate Martin.

Thank you, council members, for this strategy to establish more jail capacity.

Please vote yes.

We need safe neighborhoods.

I'm not sure how we got to abolition and a shortage of jail space from our united goal of reforming our jails and prisons.

We have some awful crime happening, and some people need to be apprehended in jail.

Simple outcomes like detox can happen and clearer heads can make better decisions, especially if we have effective reentry mandates.

Perhaps even these short stays and short sentences could require more diagnostics to happen and more mandated programs to address the results of those.

For instance, up to 60% to 70% of the men in our jails likely have traumatic brain injuries, often from fights and accidents.

CPIs are not mental illness.

Let's make more progress than we're currently making with these short-term stays, but first we have to have space to put criminals in order to assure public safety for all.

Please vote yes.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Kate.

Next, we have Emily Crumbaker.

SPEAKER_42

Good afternoon.

My name is Emily Crumbaker.

I'm a business owner in Georgetown and see firsthand the negative impact stemming from the lack of enforcing criminal activities and allowing individuals to live on the street here.

My employees, my children, and I all regularly witness crimes like drug use, drug dealing, prostitution, trespassing, vandalism, illegal dumping, and theft from individuals who have made it clear that they're not interested in the city programs that help with housing and rehabilitation.

Our property is consistently used as a place to use drugs, have sex, go to the bathroom.

It affects our business and our employees in that we experience fear and intimidation, and we consistently have to clean up after these unsanitary conditions.

Our customers don't feel safe coming here.

We don't want to relocate, but these issues are pervasive and affect so many facets on how we operate.

As a business owner, I see this as a step in the right direction and urge council to approve.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

All right, next we have Coco Weber to be followed by BJ Last.

Coco, please press star six.

SPEAKER_40

Hello, I was a former King County reentry case manager and substance use disorder counselor working with hundreds of our community members as they tried with all their might to transition out of jail streets and the addiction cycle.

There is one factor that indicated whether or not a client was successful in getting out of the jail street addiction cycle, and that was access to housing.

The speaker who came right before me said they don't want services.

If you tell me one person who is living outside right now who will say no to a housing first model.

As you heard earlier in the meeting, Housing First models work.

Housing First models are evidence-based, and they are proven efficacious.

Fear-mongering is not.

The people you all want to put in jail have been in jail before and are back because jail doesn't work.

I know people are scared, but trust me when I say it's more dangerous for the people living outside than for the people walking by who are scared to see them.

We have hundreds dying outside of King County every year.

That is our biggest public safety crisis.

Our neighbors in health crisis need your leadership.

And it sounds like people don't want, on this cold, don't want to see people living on our streets, so give them housing.

Finally, Scoredale has a really bad track record of unaliving people who are experiencing withdrawal and mental illness crisis.

It's because their providers are a for-profit model.

They're doing this nationally.

They provide the least amount of service to make the most amount of money.

This is a really bad idea.

They do not provide detox services.

I'm a former substance use counselor.

They do not provide detox services.

You are going to be putting people in grave, grave threat of death.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Coco.

Next up, we have BJ Last.

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_28

My name is BJ Last.

I'm a Ballard resident.

I'm calling in opposition to the proposed new score contract.

This contract would cost at least $2 million between the cost of the contract itself plus additional STD contract.

Amazing how there's always more money for cops and the carceral system.

We're currently looking at cutting funding for mental health for students in schools from $20 million down to $10 million.

That's literally the prison pipeline in action right now is we cut money for schools to give money to jail.

Hey, we're seeing a reduction in terms of shelter beds.

in Seattle and King County while we're upping spending on prison.

So we won't pay to actually give people shelter, get people off the street, we'll just pay to arrest them.

Because this isn't about actually like helping people.

This is just about people who want to see this, want to actually make people they view undesirable to again disappear to somewhere else.

And the fact that boards are deadly is probably good.

So it means a lot of them will probably get disappeared permanently.

And the businesses talking about, oh, the crime, the theft.

Hey, why don't you actually stop stealing from your workers first?

Let's look at Pagliacci Pizza.

They've been caught multiple times stealing from their workers over $1.5 million both times over the past few years in the exact same way.

But hey, y'all haven't kicked them out of your business association.

Target, same thing.

Y'all haven't kicked them out of your business association.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, BJ.

Next up, we have Pete Hanning.

Pete, go ahead and press star six to unmute yourself.

There you go.

SPEAKER_31

Good afternoon, Chair Kettle and members of the committee.

My name is Pete Hanning.

I am the Executive Director of the Fremont Chamber of Commerce.

I am calling in today to voice support for the City of Seattle to go into contract with the South Collectional Entity, or SCORE.

to help alleviate the issues with booking restrictions at our downtown county jail.

Here in Fremont, our local mom and pop businesses are begging for some help in dealing with the constant break-ins and blatant shoplifting.

Although diversion is the first choice, it is not the only tool.

We need to reintroduce consequences for criminal actions, even misdemeanor charges here in our community.

So I urge you to vote yes and to add this tool to our toolbox.

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_24

Next up, we have Denica Vincent followed by Michaela Linden.

Dinica, please press star 6 to unmute yourself.

SPEAKER_37

Hi.

Please vote no on this bill.

Incarceration for short or long periods does not enhance public safety.

It is a misguided approach that criminalizes our community, particularly targeting black people.

This bill is not about safety.

It is about profit.

It exploits vulnerable populations and continues a cycle of oppression.

that has harmed our communities for generations.

We need more programs, services, and resources, not more incarceration.

The idea that incarceration can provide individuals with resources and support is not only illogical but also harmful.

It is a backwards notion that has been debunked by extensive research.

When this fails and people die, as it will, as they will, future city councils will find themselves undoing the damage by the cycle of criminalizing our community only with different faces at the helm.

Until we the people realize we have the power, this will continue.

Also, the frustration expressed by some white residents about not being able to enjoy gentrified parks, neighborhoods, and sidewalks is a glaring example of privilege.

It overlooks the systemic issues that have pushed marginalized communities to the edges of society and ignores the need for inclusive solutions that benefit everyone, not just a privileged few.

We urge you to say no to the contract.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

Michaela is not present.

We will be going to KL Shannon to be followed by our last remote speaker, Tiffany McCoy.

KL, go ahead and unmute yourself.

SPEAKER_37

Until we the people realize we have the power.

Can you hear me?

SPEAKER_17

Yeah, go ahead.

Hello?

Yes, my name is Kale.

I'm going.

My name is Kale Shannon.

I live in the Rainier Beach area, and I am not in support of the SCORE contract and demand that city council do the right thing.

Vote no on the SCORE contract.

You could put that money, you know, our tax dollars into housing, jobs, and more mental health resources.

So vote no on the SCORE contract.

Wow.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, KL.

And our last remote speaker, Tiffany McCoy.

SPEAKER_39

Hi, this is Tiffany McCoy.

I'm the Policy and Advocacy Director for How's Our Neighbors and a resident of District 1. I'm calling in strong opposition to the city contracting with SCORE.

I THINK IT IS INCREDIBLY INCUMBENT UPON THIS COUNCIL OUT LOUD PUBLICLY TO SAY HOW THIS CONTRACT IS GOING TO DECREASE ALL OF THE CALLER'S CONCERNS THAT HAVE ALREADY BEEN LISTED IN THIS.

HOW IS THIS GOING TO DECREASE PROPERTY CRIME?

HOW IS THIS GOING TO DECREASE BUSINESSES CLOSING?

WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THESE INDIVIDUALS GOING TO JAIL OUT OF THE CITY LIMITS FOR ONE DAY AT THE MOST, THIS IS A FALSE IDEA OF SECURITY AND SAFETY AND IT IS YOUR DUTY TO TALK ABOUT HOW THIS IS WITHIN YOUR LONG-TERM VISION.

WHAT IS THIS COUNCIL DOING?

to increase tiny house villages, 24-7 shelters, transitional housing, mental health centers.

Where is your public safety vision beyond incarceration and propping up the carceral state?

It seems very sadly that most of you are more focused on relitigating the past.

We need leaders who are able to go beyond past quabbles and look at the future.

Vote no on this and put money into housing and mental health services and addiction treatment.

SPEAKER_24

That is it for our remote speakers.

Our last two in-person speakers are Carolyn Gaylord to be followed by Aiden Carroll.

Carolyn, you're up first.

SPEAKER_12

Thank you.

My name is Carolyn Gaylord.

I'm a resident of downtown Seattle on 2nd Avenue.

This is a complicated issue.

I understand that.

But we need some tools.

I kind of think of the carrot and stick approach.

We need a couple more sticks.

I see drug dealing, talk to a policeman, say there's nothing they can do about it.

So I think having a couple more sticks would be great.

The other issue is not doing anything.

There are so many hidden costs to do that.

Retail revenue, property tax values, and not to mention the impacts on lives.

It's not perfect.

Nothing seems to be perfect, but I would recommend moving ahead with adding some additional jail space.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Carolyn.

Last up is Aiden Carroll.

SPEAKER_26

As always, think about the hidden costs of not providing free housing in the ERs, jails, the police, as was mentioned.

I mean, the police are lying to you, but carrot and stick, they're not animals.

SPEAKER_25

This is obviously actually about homelessness.

So let's keep in mind who's really in danger here, because I mean, those who are most in danger are not the most of us for the safe place to sleep.

We are not the ones dying in record numbers.

Don't come at me with overdoses are a choice because if drug use is a choice to an addict, then you might as well blame AIDS victims for being gay.

Open your eyes and show the disabled and destitute some respect before it's too late.

This is personal.

I've lost a lot of friends.

Let people camp in peace while we're seeking real solutions like I-137.

We wrote that you're trying to delay to February even though we made the November deadline.

This is overwhelmingly discrimination against people with disabilities.

We don't fit in your boxes.

We don't fit in your social norms.

Sometimes you don't fit in your property lines.

If I was poor, I would look just as crazy as they do.

This is on you.

You're the crisis.

SPEAKER_13

OKAY, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

PUBLIC COMMENT HAS ENDED.

AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY A FEW THINGS FIRST.

FIRST, THANK YOU.

I REALLY APPRECIATE THE PUBLIC COMMENTS AND I HEAR THEM.

AND OF COURSE, WE'LL FACTOR THEM INTO OUR OVERSIGHT OF THE EXECUTIVE AND THE SCORE ILA.

AND I'D REALLY LIKE TO SAY I ALSO APPRECIATE HEARING YOU IN YOUR OWN VOICE.

CONTRAST OTHER TIMES WHERE IT'S JUST REPEATING THE SAME TALKING POINTS.

I love and appreciate the fact that we're hearing from you in your own voice, in your own stories, and that's really important.

And I also appreciate very much the snaps versus claps and other outbursts.

Definitely the way to go, and I really appreciate everyone following that.

Okay, now with that said, we will now move on to our first item of business.

Will the clerk please read item one into the record?

SPEAKER_24

CB 120825, an ordinance relating to jail services authorizing the mayor to execute an interlocal agreement with the South Correctional Entity for the provision of jail services and ratifying and confirming certain prior acts.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you very much, and we welcome Mr. Doss from the central staff.

We appreciate you being here.

Mr. Doss is going to give a presentation, about eight slides or so.

We will not have any questions for Mr. Doss.

We'll save those questions for Mr. Meyerberg and the mayor's team when they come up after Mr. Doss has completed his section.

With that, Mr. Doss, over to you.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you, Chair Kettle.

As you mentioned, my name is Greg Doss, Central Staff Analyst, here to give you an overview of Council Bill 120825. There is a Central Staff report that goes into much more detail than I'm going to give here in the presentation, and you can find that either attached to the agenda or it was emailed out to all members last week.

So start out real quick with an overview.

Council Bill 120825 would authorize the mayor to implement an interlocal agreement that would secure additional jail services at the South Correctional Entity, or SCORE.

And I'm gonna move to slide one.

Okay, good, it's up here.

And so, as you all were aware, last week at the Public Safety Committee, SPD Chief Farrar, City Attorney Ann Davidson, and Natalie Walton Anderson from the Mayor's Office presented Information, they mentioned that misdemeanor booking restrictions at the King County Jail are currently preventing SPD officers from booking those arrested for many nonviolent misdemeanors.

The presenters all said that having available jail space is a necessary tool for a functioning criminal legal system.

The above slide shows the reduction in jail sped jailbed use at the King County Jail and also the booking restrictions that are designed specifically to reduce the population of the jail.

King County put these restrictions in place originally under COVID to reduce the population, but has had to keep them in place due to correctional officer shortages.

In the presentation last week, the city attorney noted that this list under booking restriction restricts SPD from arresting and bringing to jail folks who have committed crimes such as theft, trespassing, property destruction, harassment, and other crimes.

I'd move to the next slide.

I guess I'll do it here.

Okay, so I'm going to talk a little bit about the proposed use of SCORE.

The council bill would authorize the mayor to execute an agreement that would house 20 misdemeanor detainees with flexibility for future changes.

I should note that the ILA that was attached to the ordinance currently doesn't have the number 20 included on it.

Those discussions between the mayor's office and SCORE have been ongoing.

The mayor's office will supply a ILA that has the number 20 written in under jail beds to the council sometime in the next week so that that can be swapped out via amendment and you can adopt one that has the number.

And that's just a result of the conversations moving as fast as they have been.

The ordinance contains a number of recitals that outline the city's support for alternatives to the criminal legal system, including through the use of the recently passed public use and possession ordinance.

It also identifies that a stakeholder workgroup process has been used by the executive to guide its efforts with the ILA and notes that the workgroup process will continue to identify solutions to operational problems and also to evaluate the use of SCORE.

Next slide.

So a little background on SCORE.

It's a governmental entity that was formed by the cities noted above, Auburn, Burien, Des Moines, Federal Way, Renton, SeaTac, and Tukwila in 2009. Its policies and procedure are comprised Procedures are compliant with the American Correctional Standards Association or American Correctional Association standards.

Sorry.

Score is accredited by both the National Commission on Correctional Health Care as well as the Washington State Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs.

It has a number of programs that are listed under that second bullet there.

One thing that differentiates SCORE from other jails is that it has embedded within its staff two staffers from Western State Hospital.

These psychologists, along with local service providers, have built a connection with the state that allows those who are being held for competency evaluations to receive those competency evaluations quicker than in other incarcerated settings, and usually within seven to 10 days.

Flip to the next slide.

So the executive's intended use for SCORE is to house misdemeanor detainees for about 24 to 48 hours.

That is the same as the statutory minimum before a detainee must appear before the court for a probable cause hearing.

The city plans to transport all detainees from SCORE to Seattle for their first appearance before the court.

It's the mayor's office assumption that most of folks in custody would be released by a judge with bail and or pretrial conditions at that first appearance.

As the slide notes, the transport of detainees to Seattle for a first hearing would ensure that the defendants are represented in person by their attorneys.

In the case that a defendant is indigent, they would be represented by attorneys that work for the King County Department of Public Defense.

The city contracts with the King County Department of Public Defense to provide this service for indigent misdemeanants.

It is possible that a judge may determine that an individual must be held in jail for longer than 48 hours.

That could happen because there's a competency evaluation needed, there's warrants from other jurisdictions that require the offender to be held, or there are just reasons within court rules that the judge may use to hold an offender.

or potential offender.

Next slide, please.

So, as the slide indicates, the executive has said that SPD will take to score only those misdemeanor arrestees who fit a very specific criteria.

And those criteria are listed here in the bullets.

First, SPD officers would need to determine that a person would create a significant public safety impact if they are not immediately incarcerated.

The person would also be unlikely to be released by a personal recognizance screener who has the power to release a detainee before they appear at their first hearing.

The executive has said that they will develop clear policies on which crimes and detainees may be booked at SCORE.

Generally, those folks who are medically and psychologically cleared to be booked according to SCORE's booking conditions and policies.

There is a potential that SPD would need to call SCORE staff to prescreen the folks that they would bring down there to make sure that they would not run into a booking decline situation.

Next slide.

So the mayor's work group has turned up a number of operational issues that need to be addressed before SPD could begin taking arrestees to SCORE.

The bullets on this slide are described in much more detail in my staff report.

I'm not going to go into too much detail now.

I'm just going to provide a high-level overview.

As we talked about, SPD would need to develop policies on who would be brought to score.

Transportation to and from score to the King County Jail or the Seattle Justice Center is the responsibility under the ILA of the contracting governmental entity, in this case Seattle.

And at this point in time, the only way that Seattle could bring offenders or potential offenders to and from the King County Jail or the Justice Center would be via SPD.

It is something that will happen in the short term as the executive works out some other method of transport for the future, potentially even contracting with SCORE itself.

The next issue has to do with detainees being held at the King County Jail or at the Seattle Justice Center.

There are some prisoner transport issues and also some facility issues that make holding cells a challenge.

That's something that the executive is working on and hopefully we'll have an answer for soon.

And then the last sort of larger issue that the work group identified has to do with data exchanges between SCORE, SMC, and SPD.

Obviously, when a detainee is being held by SCORE, they'll need to receive notice that that person will be receiving a hearing at the Seattle Municipal Court.

They'll have to arrange for transport.

These things can be done by computer systems that will allow the facilities to talk to one another.

Until those exchanges can be created, it'll have to be done manually.

Next slide.

There are a number of fiscal issues that are still being addressed.

At a high level, the 2024 adopted budget for jail services is $22.4 million.

It is the case that the executive has identified about $600,000 in savings in this year's jail contract that has to do with the difference between the amount that's budgeted for the jail contract and the city's use of the jail contract.

and that that $600,000 could be applied for jail services for the rest of this year, most likely in the fall after these operational issues that I've raised have been addressed.

Starting in 2025, the annual cost for 20 beds is assumed at 2 million per year.

That is a number that assumes a lower contracting rate for transportation and potential hospital guarding if inmates needed to go to the hospital.

As I mentioned, the In the short term, it's going to be SPD that's transferring folks to and from SCORE.

And if two officers did that two times a day, you'd be looking at about $262,000 in costs.

There's another $150,000 to $300,000 estimate for costs associated with adding those data exchanges I talked about a moment ago.

And sort of to be determined costs include additional SMC staffing, potentially for a workaround until the systems can be put up in place.

or also for martial staffing support if that's needed.

And then finally, as I mentioned, facility costs for holding cells at the Seattle Justice Center or King County Jail should one of those facilities be contracted to hold folks.

Next slide.

So, as I mentioned, There is an opportunity for council to amend the current bill to attach a new ILA that would have the number 20 as the number of guaranteed beds.

That's something that the executive is willing to do.

I have, over the last few minutes, talked about a number of operational issues that the executive and their work group is working to address.

The council has a number of options before they authorize the ILA.

One of them would be to hold this bill 120825 until the executive can come back and present answers to those operational questions and a plan for how they're going to move forward.

Another would be that prior to passing the bill, the council could amend the bill so that it requires the executive to come back and report on these operational issues in a way that either would be mandatory before detainees got taken to score or in a way that would just be supplementary supplemental to their transport.

Or finally, the council could pass the bill without amendment.

So those are the options that you all face with 120825. That is my high-level presentation.

As I said, my staff report goes into quite a bit more detail.

And with that, I think the executive might be best suited to answer questions because, as I said, this process has been moving.

It's moving quickly.

And many of the issues that I have raised here, they may already have some solutions to.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Mr. Doss, and I appreciate your presentation addressing some of the high, you know, the basic points of this.

And thank you also for addressing the one question that's come up again and again in public comment.

Score is not a private jail.

So thank you for clearing that up.

I appreciate it.

Now I'd like to introduce the mayor's team, Mr. Meyerberg, also Director of Public Safety, Walton Anderson, and Ms. Smith to join.

Mr. Doss, if you'd like, you can...

Stay with them, but look forward to the presentation from the mayor's team.

Mr. Bernberg, when you're ready.

SPEAKER_05

Good morning, council members.

Is this on?

It is.

Good morning, council members.

Thank you, Chair Kettle, for inviting us here today.

to discuss our prospective interlocal agreement with the SCORE jail facility and the accompanying ordinance.

I also want to thank Greg Doss and your team and central staff for being at the meetings and turning your work around with such short notice.

We appreciate that.

And thank you, Council Member Kettle, to your staff, who have been really essential partners in this work.

So thank you again.

Our administration believes that the preferred approach to most low-level misdemeanor crime is through diversion and treatment.

We know that many of the individuals that are engaged in this type of criminal activity suffer from some or all of mental illness, addiction, and housing instability.

To this end, we have invested heavily in approaches and programs that provide outreach, long-term casework, shelter and permanent supportive housing, and access to low-barrier drug treatment to help address the root causes of criminal conduct and to minimize the involvement of these individuals in the criminal legal system over the long term.

However, what we also know is that there are times where this approach either is not working or the conduct at issue warrants a further law enforcement intervention.

We need officers to have sufficient flexibility to make arrests where appropriate and for a broader set of offenses, as well as to be able to book individuals into jail for these offenses when needed.

To this end, the mayor's office, along with our partners here and at the county level, have been working on a number of different tools to provide law enforcement with more and better approaches to use in these situations.

and where an alternative approach or response is not feasible or is not working.

One of these tools that the mayor's office has worked on is access to additional jail beds to supplement our existing King County resources.

Earlier this year, the mayor's office began evaluating the feasibility of partnering with other local jail facilities for supplemental beds.

We looked at a number of regional facilities, and we ultimately landed on two.

SCORE, which as Councilmember Kettle said, is a government entity that serves five South King County cities, and the Issaquah City Jail.

In June, we launched a stakeholder work group comprised of the Seattle Police Department, Seattle Municipal Court, the Office of Civil Rights, Department of Public Defense, the City Attorney's Office.

We deliver care and purpose, dignity, and action.

We also began engaging with labor unions that could be impacted by a contract with a new jail facility.

The goal of our stakeholder meetings was to hear and understand concerns, to minimize the impact of a contract with a new jail facility on these partners, and to mitigate the potential harms to those who will ultimately be incarcerated in these new facilities.

Over three meetings and many one-on-one discussions, we worked to identify operational concerns and impacts that would need to be addressed prior to commencing a contract with a new facility.

Seattle has previously contracted with facilities other than the King County Jail.

Prior to 2017, we did contract with the Snohomish County Jail as a supplement to the King County Jail.

However, we knew that there were new issues that would have to be evaluated and muscle memory that would have to be rebuilt given the post-pandemic landscape.

Based on what we've learned, the mayor's office determined that SCORE was the most viable option at this time.

This was based on tours of the facility, a review of the programs and services offered, the medical care and treatment available, and their ability to serve our specific population.

As a result of the stakeholder meetings, we created a comprehensive list of operational requirements that we needed to resolve prior to moving forward with SCORE.

Most of these we've been already able to address.

However, as Mr. Doss has noted, there are some that remain outstanding.

We are confident that we'll be able to address these remaining issues in partnership with our stakeholders.

The proposed contract and ordinance are also both clear that we will not begin booking individuals into SCORE until these issues are resolved.

Ultimately, there were philosophical differences in our stakeholder discussions that mirror the perspective of many Seattleites and many that were here today.

Some believe that virtually no misdemeanor should be subject to bookings.

Others believe that many more should be booked.

In our perspective, this conversation and the answer is more complex.

We need flexibility around the jail.

We need to be able to enforce the law and to ensure public safety.

We also need to address the complex human causes of criminal conduct and minimize harm to community members, which are both the victims of crime and those who will be incarcerated.

And we believe that this ordinance and the ILA meets those needs.

So I'm going to turn it over to Director Walton Anderson.

SPEAKER_46

Good afternoon and thank you council members for allowing me to speak to this issue today.

I think it bears repeating to underscore the investments that show that the mayor's commitment in investing in public health strategies to combat the public safety crisis that we have in the city.

We have made tens of millions of dollars in approaches that are upstream.

champion outreach and diversion, alternative police response, and care teams to treat the underlying issues that contribute to criminal behavior.

I think it's important to understand the why, the why of why we are here today asking for counsel to consider this.

why we cannot continue with the current status quo, and while we are being mindful of the King County jail staffing numbers and acknowledge that even with this proposal, the city's access to jail bids have been the lowest since 2019. For our criminal legal system to work, each component must be functioning.

A strong and robust outreach approach, wraparound case management, services, on-demand housing, and prioritizing alternative response.

And whenever possible, diverting people from the criminal legal system to address the underlying needs through treatment and human services.

And we need the flexibility, capacity, and stability to provide an adequate number of jail beds The current criminal legal system does still include a fully functioning jail that provides the capacity when absolutely necessary.

There's a strong and urgent demand for the solutions from the community.

These solutions include outreach, alternative treatment options, but not everybody is ready to accept and volunteer for those services.

And when those individuals continue and repeatedly impact our residents and impact them in terms of their physical health, their wellbeing, their personal property, and when they impact small and large businesses repeatedly with no repercussions and no immediate desire to engage in one of those alternatives available, law enforcement must have the ability to intervene and to be able to remove somebody that is causing repeated and immediate harm.

It also bears repeating that arresting and booking individuals charged with misdemeanor offenses is not something that's seen as the best or even ideal outcome.

We absolutely need the ability to do that if other interventions cease to have impact.

We must listen and be mindful to all of our community, those causing the harm and those enduring the harm.

We cannot allow for there to be limited to no immediate interventions for individuals involved in chronic and repeated criminal behavior in a way that threatens and engages and endangers members of our community.

Unfortunately, there are individuals in the community who are not ready to accept those services and refuse assistance, and that is concerning.

What we cannot accept, though, is when they are unwilling to engage and accept those services and continue with illegal and unsafe behavior that harms others.

It is well known to probably everybody in this room that it takes time for people to be ready for change, to engage in services, and to accept treatment.

But when you are a resident, a business owner, a person walking the downtown or any area in Seattle, and you are inundated with criminal behavior happening to you or your property or your business on a monthly, weekly, daily, or even multiple times a day, how long can we ask the community members who are being harmed daily to wait before they become compassion fatigued?

How long can we ask them to continue to take the financial losses for their businesses and homes or property while we wait for people to engage in services?

There must be an opportunity to provide some immediate, temporary relief, some respite, so that we can continue to ask for their patience.

This plan will give the city what it needs, options and tools to be flexible and responsive to all community concerns, and taking into the consideration the current staffing at the King County Jail.

We are taking a phased approach to address as many of the operational concerns that have been brought by our stakeholders, and we thank them for their participation to help the mayor's office minimize the operational impacts.

In addition, the city will create policy guidance for individuals being booked into SCORE.

I want to take a moment to acknowledge some of the things that have been talked about in public comment and also raised in our operational work groups.

No death is acceptable, specifically those that are housed in our jail.

And SCORE has reported that they've had 12 deaths since 2011, since they've opened, and hundreds and thousands of bookings.

And we've had deaths also at other facilities all over the state and within King County.

The death of anyone in our jail facilities is tragic, and we must remain vigilant to ensure that the health and safety of those in our jails is our top priority.

And in fact, we must prioritize the health and safety of every individual in our community.

And we are seeing people who are more entrenched in their substance use disorder and mental health concerns and physical well-being than we have seen ever.

We are seeing individuals die from overdose in our streets, and we're even seeing people who we have provided housing as a first model in support of housing die in housing.

It's important for us to continue to listen to those safety concerns within our facility.

And our goal is to continue to assess how this is working, continue the stakeholder meetings so that we have an opportunity to engage our stakeholders and hear their feedback, not only in their operational concerns, but in their safety concerns.

Thank you for the opportunity to speak today.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you very much, Mr. Meyerberg and Director Walton Anderson.

Appreciate the points in addressing some of the comments.

The issue is highlighted in the public comment.

We will now turn to questions as standard practice.

I always start with my vice chair, then we'll go to other committee members.

And then also we have our, I do believe our committee can always be a select committee, and we also have Council Member Morales, so we'll go in that order.

So, Mr. Vice Chair.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you, Mr. Das, Directors Meyerberg and Walton, Sarah as well, for joining us and sharing this presentation.

And then, you know, most importantly, the underlying work that went into all of this.

So, and thank you, Greg.

I did read your very robust, comprehensive staff memo, dog-eared it, sticky notes, highlighted it, read all the attachments, I feel like there was an attachment to an attachment somewhere, but I don't think...

Yeah, yeah.

No, it's good stuff.

Really exciting, enthralling reading to do in front of the TV, watching the Olympics, and Simone Bile and Team USA win gold last night.

But anyways, it's a good memo, very thoughtful, and I appreciate it.

And...

I'm glad to hear there's historical precedent for this.

In the memo on that very first page, you mentioned, quote, in the decade preceding the 2020 COVID epidemic, the city would at times utilize all of its KCJ contract misdemeanor jail beds and would secure additional beds through supplemental contracts with other jail service providers, including Snohomish County, Yakima County, And score.

And then Director Meyerberg, you talked a little bit about that as well in terms of calling out what that looked like a little bit in 2017. But there is clearly historical precedent, clearly historical precedent for this.

But I would just love to hear a little bit more We know that to be a fact, but I guess maybe from the executive's perspective, what that looked like in prior years pre-COVID.

And I heard you specifically mention atrophy and lack of muscle memory and anxiety.

Yeah, what did implementation of similar stuff, similar contracting look like pre-COVID?

And how did you all overcome and resolve the challenges?

How did the executive, to your understanding, overcome and resolve some of those challenges at the time?

SPEAKER_05

What I'll say, Council Member Saka, is this was obviously some time ago.

This was in 20, I believe, you know, the contract ended in 2017 with Snohomish County, so it was commenced well before that, you know, in 2012. You know, we did use some of the underlying documentation that was advanced as far as the Snohomish County contract went when we were developing our contract and looking at their ILA and then the ordinance that was attached to the ILA.

As far as the procedural hurdles that went in, I can't speak to them here today.

What I'll say, though, is that this was not necessarily a controversial topic at that point.

I mean, I think there was an understanding that there was a need for jail beds, and the jail beds at that point were substantially above where we are right now.

So in the 250, if not higher range, where even with these supplemental jail beds that we're seeking today, our number would be around 105, which is again, it's below where we were pre-pandemic and well below where we were with the partnership with Snohomish County.

And what I mentioned with the muscle memories, I think we have a lot of our public safety entities have become used to the King County Jail facility.

We like the King County Jail facility.

I mean, we have a great partnership with the King County.

It's convenient.

But what we need to do is to build out a suite of options.

And that involves having some of our agencies think again through the procedural operational issues and we've been really pleased with the feedback we've gotten from our stakeholders and their ability to engage and their willingness to engage to help us identify those problems.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you.

And you noted it wasn't, at least to your knowledge and understanding, it wasn't particularly controversial, I guess, at the time.

And granted, definitely, I understand you weren't involved in the executive at the time.

It predates, it's another administration.

But Do you know, did that also require council action or approval offhand?

If there was an ILA involved, I imagine it did, but.

SPEAKER_05

It did, and it required approval from the Snohomish County Council as well.

So there was approval on both sides of the council.

SPEAKER_07

Okay, thank you.

No further questions or comments at this time, Mr. Chair, thank you.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Vice Chair.

Now looking over to my colleagues to the right.

Any questions from, okay, Council Member Moore.

SPEAKER_15

Thank you very much, Chair.

I had a number of questions, and thank you all for this presentation.

It's a very complex and nuanced material and area, so I appreciate all of this.

I just have a quick question, and I know this has been covered, but we are currently, our contract with King County is for, tell me, Greg, how many beds, 101?

SPEAKER_06

It's for just under 200.

SPEAKER_15

Just 200 beds.

Okay.

And basically, given the booking restrictions, we're basically able to book about 75, 80 of those beds?

SPEAKER_06

Well, that's what we have booked right now.

Yes.

SPEAKER_15

Okay.

And we're asking for 20 beds at score.

SPEAKER_06

I'll let it.

THE EXECUTIVE ANSWER THAT QUESTION.

THAT'S CORRECT, COUNCILMEMBER.

SPEAKER_15

SO BASICALLY WE'RE JUST ASKING TO FILL THE BEDS AT SCORE THAT WE ARE CONTRACTUALLY ABLE TO FILL IN KING COUNTY BUT FOR THE BOOKING RESTRICTIONS.

SPEAKER_06

That is correct.

But I should also note that the ordinance itself does authorize the mayor's office to book more than the guaranteed minimum bed.

So they would be able to book more than 20. And I think in discussions that the work group has had, that number of 20 may be 20 to 30. It may go a little higher depending on the needs of the city.

SPEAKER_15

Okay, but is it anticipated that would it go over the 200 that we're already paying for at King County?

SPEAKER_06

No.

SPEAKER_15

Okay, so we're basically having to utilize the services for the beds we've already paying for for King County.

What score?

We're not adding additional jail beds, correct?

No.

SPEAKER_05

Our total number of jail beds will not be over the minimum bed floor that's currently existing with the King County Jail.

That answers your question.

We will not be above, in total, 195 beds.

Okay.

SPEAKER_15

And I just note that the prior council in 2019 set a, you know, a...

a policy decision that we shouldn't go over 180 beds.

And we're well within that range of a policy decision.

And we've been way below the standard set by the prior council of 180 beds.

The other thing I'm interested in is the services that are available at SCORE.

You talk about having a medication treatment program there.

We also have a True Blood program.

Are those programs available currently at King County?

SPEAKER_05

So, and I'm going to pass this off to Director Walton Anderson as well, but our understanding is that there is medication for opioid use disorders at King County.

They do not have the True Blood pilot.

That is unique to SCORE, but I'll let Director Walton Anderson address it.

SPEAKER_46

Thank you, Andrew.

Thank you, Council Member Moore.

Yes, SCORE does have some significant, I think, both medical, Medicaid-assisted treatment options.

People are able to be induced there.

They do have DSHS embedded there.

through the Navigator program.

Also, they have done a True Blood pilot to help people not decompensate while they are there.

I think one thing to point out is all services are voluntary, even in the SCORE facility.

And while I do believe that the service providers that are there are assessing people, asking if they want to take advantage of those services, it is still voluntary, just like it is for people to engage in services in the community and for the services that are at the King County Jail.

SPEAKER_15

But there is an active medication management program, so people could get started on Suboxone or...

Yes, they do.

SPEAKER_46

They have medicated assistant treatment.

Not only that, but they have detox monitoring.

They operate it by way of an evaluation, both for opioids, alcohol, and also...

for benzodiazepines as well in terms of titrating down.

They do have the ability to have people start medicated assistant treatment there.

I have visited the SCORE facility, I think, twice in the last month.

And my questions are that, can people actually access services within 24 to 72 hours if that's their booking?

And the answer has been yes.

Again, reminded that those services are voluntary.

We cannot force people to engage in treatment.

We cannot force them to take advantage of the jail release services that we are potentially contracting and asking SCORE to provide.

Those jail release services were not actually contemplated in the contracting with the felony pilot.

So I just want to point out that distinction.

SPEAKER_05

Okay.

Add a little bit to that, Council Member Moore.

One of the pieces of feedback we received during our stakeholder process was exactly the point that you raised.

It was incredibly important to the stakeholders across the gamut that there be availability of medication starts, availability of mental health, meaningful mental health interventions.

And that was one of the things that we took back to SCORE and were clear with them that we wanted this to be part of our contract.

We wanted our Seattle folks who we are going to be booking to be eligible for these programs.

So in the ILA that you'll see, there are exhibits at the back end which actually call these out directly, these programs that you've mentioned.

So, again, very important for us because the idea being that if we're going to use jail, right, we want to do our best to use it as a means to interrupt and to try to get people on medication, to work with our partners at, for example, Reach and Lead and other places to have a warm handoff to transition folks not just under a highway but to a place to be, to a social services provider.

So these are all things that we heard during the stakeholder process and our aspects of the ILA we're working on with SCORE.

SPEAKER_15

That there'll be a warm handoff.

SPEAKER_05

Right, okay.

SPEAKER_15

Because this is actually an opportunity to get people started on medication.

And we have a number of facilities that can work with people on methadone and suboxone if we could actually get it.

And the last point I want to make here is that, yeah, jail is not the best option.

And you know what we do need to be doing?

We need to be looking at involuntary treatment for substance use.

We have a facility in King County that is full of non-King County people.

because the hospitals are unwilling to call the DCRs to get somebody detained because they're gravely disabled due to substance use.

Nobody wants to talk about this.

If we're not going to use our jails, we need to be getting people into treatment, and we need to be getting them into treatment involuntarily.

because they are not able to make a rational decision when they are under the addiction of fentanyl.

It takes 20 to 30 days to really get that cleared from your system and be able to engage in rational decisions.

So I'd like to see not only the jail, which again we've noted is basically we're just getting a few extra beds that we can't get from King County that we've already paid for, But we also need to be looking at ways to get our hospitals to do their job, to get the DCRs, and we need to be expanding involuntary treatment services for people who we see on 3rd and Pike who are absolutely gravely disabled.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Council Member Moore.

And to that last point that she made, you know, the two words involuntary commit.

I have service providers who say that to me regularly.

quietly in a meeting, but it's not really in the public domain.

And, you know, we should have a, you know, a thoughtful discussion on that topic moving forward.

Any other questions?

We've gone through the committee.

Council Member Morales, over to you.

SPEAKER_16

Thank you.

Excuse me.

Thank you, Chair.

uh so i want to start by saying that um originally i thought that this was going to be a conversation about needing more jail space more beds but as council member moore has mentioned and as we've uh heard that doesn't really seem to be the point here um it really is about allowing looking for situations that may warrant arrests um so If that is the case, then I guess there's three separate issues that I would like to ask questions about.

So if that is the case, and we know, for example, that the King County Jail has already lifted some restrictions, why not just continue negotiations there instead of creating this whole new system and all of the costs that are associated with it?

SPEAKER_05

Thank you for the question, Councilmember.

We are, as you noted, we are continuing to negotiate and to work very closely with King County.

What we'll say is that King County have been excellent partners, both in our request to expand some of the booking restrictions for the summer months in the DAP zone, as well as concerning just the operational and ongoing issues with the King County Jail.

We have an ongoing group called the Jail Advisory Group, which a number of city agencies, the mayor's office and the jail folks sit on, which is a productive, um, a venue to, to discuss these issues.

Um, what, what are, are not our concern, but one of the issues that we face with the, um, the lifting of the booking restrictions for the DAP zone is that it is limited to the DAP zone.

Um, it is limited to Belltown down through downtown includes a little Saigon and the CID, and then, um, the North end of Soto.

However, There are a number of other areas of the city for which we need the ability to book more individuals for, again, a variety of offenses.

It's not just as simple as requesting a one-off extension from the King County Jail.

We, again, want to build in ongoing flexibility so that officers can make a discretionary decision to book someone into jail and not have to call ahead to the jail prior to doing that.

So it's not an and-or proposition.

We think it's an and-and proposition.

We will continue to work with the county, and again, to rely on that partnership.

But also, again, we need more resources and more flexibility.

I'll turn it over to Natalie if there's more to add.

SPEAKER_46

And yes, if I could just add, Council Member Morales, that one thing to consider is that we do have to ask the jail for any of those emphasis zones.

And the other thing that it still does not account for is the staffing of the people working in the jail.

And that doesn't change.

And we have to also, in all of the discussions here, contemplate the impact to our workers in the jail.

And so I think that's the other reason that we need to make sure that we're something that we need to highlight, I think.

SPEAKER_16

So I'll move on to my second issue, which is, and maybe this is for you, Director Meyerberg, but I think the question you mentioned different facilities that were considered, including Issaquah.

You did not mention the Malang Regional Justice Center, and I know that that program has, or that facility already has a transportation system in place.

There is, some would argue, is better suited for the kind of drug treatment issues that you're talking about.

So can you talk a little bit about why that wasn't considered and if that is an option here?

SPEAKER_05

Yes.

So we looked at a number of facilities.

There were some facilities that had similar staffing issues where they just simply couldn't take more folks.

And that is one of the struggles that I think even the RJC has.

So I did speak to some DAJD, Department of Adult and Juvenile Detention, representatives and discuss the Regional Justice Center to determine whether it would be a viable option.

The same staffing issues that they face in the King County Jail are not exclusive to the King County Jail.

They also apply to RJC.

There's also some infrastructure and some other changes that have to occur at the RJC.

What we are open to is a number of scenarios and possibilities.

What we feel like is that SCORE, for right now, is a facility that has the staffing and has the systems and has...

the operational care and medical treatment and access to mental health treatment that we need.

That doesn't mean that we won't continuously evaluate this pilot.

Again, it is a pilot and we are going to have an ongoing work group with our stakeholders to say, is it working?

Is it not working?

How do we shift?

How do we pivot?

And are there other facilities that we can evaluate?

So from the mayor's office's perspective, all options are open and we're willing to explore any facility that can meet our needs and that again, doesn't cause undue burden on our stakeholders and our partners.

SPEAKER_16

So can you remind me how long the pilot is for?

SPEAKER_05

The pilot could go on in perpetuity, but what we have built into the pilot is that we will continually assess and reassess to determine whether or not we want to move forward.

One thing that is in the contract is the ability for the city to pull out with notice.

So unlike, for example, our jail contract, it's a 30-year contract for which we cannot pull out.

This contract would allow us the flexibility to to innovate, to make changes, and if it's not working, to remove ourselves from the contract.

SPEAKER_16

So I guess one of my big concerns is, as many people have acknowledged and mentioned already, you know, I understand that the SCORE facility is certified or accredited, but the fact that six people have died there in the last year is deeply problematic.

And I think, you know, The comments that Director Walton Anderson made aside, people are rightfully concerned about, you know, potentially a family member or a friend being booked into that facility and not leaving.

So, you know, I think this is...

at least one reason why additional facilities need to be contemplated.

Can you talk about how long it takes between the assessment or evaluation that might be done in order for somebody to be referred for services there, whether it's medical or some other service, mental health service?

How long does that take between the time they arrive and the time they get the service?

SPEAKER_05

I'm going to ask Director Bolton Anderson to answer that.

But I just would like to address your first point, which is a good point.

I think one value that everyone at this table shares, and I think everyone on the dais shares, and everyone in the audience shares, is that we want to minimize harm on the folks that are going to be incarcerated.

Again, I think we'll say this over and over again.

Our first approach for misdemeanors, for nonviolent, low-level misdemeanors, is going to be diversion and treatment.

That is our goal.

And we want to reduce harm.

We do not want people to die in facilities.

So we are going to try to put whatever policies and practices in place, either internally on SPD's side when they're deciding who to book, or in our ongoing work with SCORE to help protect the folks that are in there.

But that is our priority, and we will commit to you that, that we will do our best to ensure that the people that go in there, go in there and are treated well, are safe, are given medical care, and then come home to their families.

So I just wanted to address that point.

But let me turn it over to Natalie to address the rest.

SPEAKER_46

Yes.

Thank you, Council Member Morales.

I think the question you asked just to make sure I'm hearing is how long or the timeframe for them to, I think, be assessed for services.

Is that correct?

SPEAKER_16

Between the time they arrive at the facility and get the services that are listed as, you know, as one of the reasons why this facility is chosen because it has medical and mental health and other treatment options available.

SPEAKER_46

I think the first thing is, in my visits to SCORE both times, I was able to see the booking and screening process.

And I think the first piece is one of the most critical, which is, are they medically fit to actually be booked?

And that's the first thing.

The second thing is, anecdotally, many of the not only staff members, but treatment providers that I spoke to on both occasions, I asked, what is the primary issue that you are seeing with individuals coming in to score.

And they said substance use and mental illness, co-occurring for sure.

The issue, I think your question is incredibly important, but I want to point out one thing is these services are available.

They are offered.

They are offered multiple times to individuals coming in.

It is up to that individual.

As Council Member Moore said, we cannot mandate people to accept treatment.

We cannot mandate people to be committed or to do that.

And so SCORE does its best to use motivational techniques to encourage people.

They are assessed immediately for those things and are offered services when they are, you know, booked and accepted for that booking.

Part of their booking process includes a medical screening that assesses whether or not they have substance use, mental health, those types of things.

There are ongoing medical checks, I think it's hourly, from the team, and the offer of services is constant.

I saw service providers there.

I've seen their medical unit.

I don't work there, nor do I represent SCORE, but I know the ability to have those services is there.

Again, mandating people to get those services is not something that they can do.

SPEAKER_16

Yeah, I appreciate that.

And also that is the thing that we hear over and over again, whenever we're talking about people who are experiencing homelessness or people in the street is that, well, we offered them something just because they didn't take it.

That's not anything we can do about it.

And so my understanding is that this next step, you know, offering the ability to book somebody into jail is happening so that they can get treatment.

And I'm hearing the same response.

Well, we can offer it, but we can't really force them to do it.

So So I'm not really sure what this is accomplishing.

That's one thing.

And the fact that people are booked in and may or may not receive treatment is something that I'm sure the facility has data on.

So I would be interested to know of the folks who are arrested, who are booked in, who are offered treatment, how many receive it, what is the outcome of the treatment that this facility offers, how many people get access to a counselor, how many people get access to the medications that are being offered, how many people resolve their drug problem.

If that is the reason why this facility is being chosen, then I want to know what the outcomes are for the people who are in this facility.

The last thing I'll say, thank you for the indulgence, Chair, is that it seems like there are a lot of operational issues that need to be figured out.

The memo that Mr. Das sent to us included the impact on the courts, potentially a need for more hearings, the need for a data management system that can connect all these different facilities together.

the transportation costs that we've heard about, shuttling people back and forth to Des Moines, the travel time and time management of the attorneys who are gonna have to go down to Des Moines to represent their clients, the jurisdictional custody issues, bringing somebody from the SCORE facility into the Seattle Municipal Court, which is a different jurisdiction and will require some other issue to be resolved.

In addition to the cost, So we got a request for $2 million for the contract with SCORE, but there are also health care services.

If the detainees require hospitalization, that cost for that will come back to the City of Seattle.

There are competency evaluations that will come back to the City of Seattle.

There is the overtime for SPD that will be required for them to drive people back and forth to Des Moines.

And as many people have pointed out, that means that they're not doing other patrol work that they could be doing in Seattle.

There's the cost for court changes and the data system integration that I already mentioned.

So I guess my question for you, Director Meyerberg, is what is the additional cost of all these other services that are outlined?

Because so far, the mayor has only identified $600,000 to pay for this, and I want to know where the balance of the money is going to come from.

SPEAKER_05

So the $600,000 is what we have identified as being the 2024 costs.

We anticipate that the 2025 and 26 costs will be about approximately $2 million a year.

We are assuming that within that $2 million, we will provide for most, if not all, of the costs that you are discussing right now.

That being said, and we've been very open about this, and I'll reiterate it right now, is that we don't have all the answers.

So we, again, engage in a stakeholder process.

We received a spreadsheet based on the feedback we received that had 20, 25 operational issues.

We have addressed many of those issues.

We are confident that we will address these issues.

And as we go, we're going to learn of other issues, most likely when we begin our operations.

And that's why we keep referring to this, and I hear your point, but I keep referring to this as a pilot, right?

We don't know what we don't know, and we need to learn as we go.

And we will start slow with a low number of bookings, and then if it's working, then work up to a higher number of bookings.

But there are a multitude of options available to us as far as the transportation goes.

We believe that we're close to the technological fix with the SMC and our other partners.

We've had many discussions with SMC, the marshals and others about where folks will be held.

We are confident that we'll be able to resolve these issues.

And again, we will be reporting back to the council and to our stakeholders, frankly, about what we have achieved, what we can do and iterate and learn over time.

SPEAKER_16

The last thing I'll say is that as we approach a $260 million deficit, when the answer to how are we gonna pay for it is we don't know yet, that's not sufficient.

So maybe by next week, we'll have an answer.

SPEAKER_05

Thank you, Chair.

And our answer is not that, I mean, our plan is by the time that we submit the biennial budget, that we will know the answers.

We won't be going into the biennial budget without having the answers because we know that the council will hold us accountable to answer those questions.

So I hear you loud and clear, Council Member Morales, and we'll be working on that.

We'll provide you supplemental information on those points.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Council Member Morales.

Now, Council President, you were first, but somehow on my screen, Council Member Morris jumped ahead of you.

Council President, then, over to you.

SPEAKER_34

Thank you.

I want to respond to some of our public comment and some of the emails that we're all receiving.

One person said, this is about homelessness.

And I have to push back against that and say, no, this is not about homelessness.

This is about patching a hole in our law enforcement system that will enable our officers who have probable cause to arrest people committing misdemeanor crimes and gross misdemeanor crimes, enable them to take them somewhere.

So I really want to make that clear because these statements like, well, we shouldn't be spending money on jail, we should be spending money on housing the homeless, that only reifies the anti-homeless notion that it's homeless people who are criminals or that it's only homeless people or largely homeless people that are committing crimes for which we need a place to take perpetrators.

want to make clear that in my mind, we're talking about two different issues here, homelessness and public safety and dealing with this fact that we have nowhere to take them.

And so with that said, you know, we are talking about people who are committing repeat offenses all over the city.

And, in fact, I first heard about SCORE from the captain of the North Precinct, whose officers were trying to arrest or who were prioritizing repeat offenders that were on the city attorney's list here.

And these are crimes that...

that from small businesses and residents that are filling up our inboxes.

So with that said, it should be fairly clear that I do support this proposal.

And but I also agree with Councilmember Moore about the budget implications.

We don't know where it's going to come from.

I am not wild about spending an additional $4 million, $2 million in 2025 and $2 million in 2026. And then the fiscal note goes on to 2028. when, as we've been discussing, we are not able to use the spots in the King County Jail for which we've already contracted.

That issue blew up in the Public Safety Committee last time, and I don't really want to go into detail on that, but I want to point out that I still do have questions.

And on the one hand, the county is saying, well, we're not achieving cost recovery and so we don't really have any money.

You can't, there's nothing to give back to Seattle.

I would very much, anyway, I would, or, and then there's also the argument that there are staffing shortages and that's why we can't take, that's why we have booking restrictions at the King County Jail.

The story keeps changing and I want to point out that the last year this issue came up because apparently the county was about to, was looking for, was about to issue an RFP for the remaining five million dollars that was left over from sixteen million dollars that the county and the city had agreed would not be spent on jail.

So I want to read you a little bit about that.

Apparently In 2020, the city came to agreement with King County that $16 million in savings from decreased use of the jail contract, $8 million in 2021 and $8 million in 2022, would be divested from the jail and into, quote, programs and actions to take place substantially within the city of Seattle that are specifically designed to increase community-based supports for disproportionately incarcerated racial, ethnic, and gender diverse communities.

So there was a policy decision that was made during the COVID epidemic, and there are two reasons to do this.

Number one, we don't want people in close proximity within jail cells because of the spread of COVID.

But also there was a policy decision that was made to employ other methods of rehabilitation.

And so that appears to still be a live issue because last year, $5 billion was used for that.

And so all these things get muddled, diverting from jail, and then what are we going to do with the extra money that was agreed would not be used on jail cells in 2020?

So in the fall of 2022 budget deliberations, council passed a council budget action.

It was a proviso that basically said, so now we're talking about the 2023 budget moving forward, that basically said that we're going to contemplate what we're going to do with our jail, the savings from our ability to use our 195 or 200 or however many it was back then, the savings from being used, from not spending on those jail cells, what are we going to do with that?

And so council put a proviso on some of that money, and we would use that money to pay for the annual labor adjustment that we're still paying the county, because every year we do have to pay the county more for increased labor costs for our for a contract.

And so there was a proviso put, but also associated with that proviso was the request that the mayor's office provide a work plan by January 31st, 2023, to the chair of the Public Safety and Human Services Committee that provides a projected timeline for negotiations with the county, including dates for deciding on parameters and for coming to agreement, describes how it plans to include the council in internal discussions or discussions with the county, and identifies who is leading negotiations and members of the negotiating team.

So there were these talks that were supposed to be happening between the mayor and the county on what's going on with this money that we're paying them for jail cells.

Now, have those conversations happened?

And has council just not been made aware of those?

And if so, what has been decided?

Or what is the current state of those conversations?

Because we're doing this at the last minute.

This is a long time coming.

that we are trying to get more capacity for whatever reason.

And I just want to know what this was a requested conversation and report back to council.

And so what's going on with that?

SPEAKER_05

So for the last several months, since the spring and early summer, we have been in active negotiations with the county.

The booking restrictions, the bed floor, the bed floor adjustment, the new rates are all subjects of these negotiations.

I can't and won't get too deeply into those in an open session.

But what I will say is that the conversations are going well.

The county has been a good partner at the table, and they've been productive.

I have met with individual council members to detail what is happening with our overall approach to King County.

I'd be happy to have a fuller briefing and executive session if you deem it appropriate.

But again, we continue to negotiate with the county and we'll have an update on the questions you're asking at a later date.

SPEAKER_34

That would be great.

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_13

Okay.

Thank you, Council President Nelson.

Council Member Moore?

SPEAKER_15

Thank you.

I just had one additional point to make, and I think it was Council Member Morales who brought the budgetary issues up.

But we had a briefing today served on the Regional Policy Committee on King County's Civic Campus project and vision.

And one of the things that struck me is that the plan is for the Sky Bridge that connects the jail to the courthouse to come down in 2027. And I think the plan is basically to shut down the current jail and perhaps build something different in Soto.

So I think it's important that we are beginning these discussions about alternative jail space because major fundamental changes are planned by King County regarding the current jail.

And in basically two years, we're not going to be able to transport.

So it's important that we begin these conversations now.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Council Member Moore.

A very good point I might add there.

I'm not seeing any other questions right now.

I just wanted to note a few things in terms of my observations of the briefing.

Thank you again very much.

First, Mr. Doss and then Mr. Meyerberg and Director Walton Anderson.

SPEAKER_06

Mr. Chair, may I say one more thing that I should have said?

The executive has been extremely transparent, inviting your staff into the workgroup process and brainstorming and addressing many of the operational things that I raise in my staff report.

They're working it in real time, and it is entirely possible that in a week or two or definitely a month, there will be more information that can be brought to bear on those issues that I raise in the staff report.

So I just wanted to add a little context.

for the information that you received and say thank you to our executive partners for involving us in the process.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Mr. Doss.

SPEAKER_34

Council Member Saka looks like he wants to talk.

SPEAKER_13

Council Member Saka is currently not on Zoom, but go ahead.

Yeah, all good.

SPEAKER_07

I'm on.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

So a couple comments, a few questions as well.

Great discussion.

Thank you, colleagues.

So first off, This whole 20 beds missing as a term from the proposed agreement that is before us, I do view that personally as an essential term and condition of this whole agreement, this proposed agreement that we're being asked to authorize.

I am personally fine with...

Voting today at the committee level, but I do think that is an essential item, at least from my perspective, that we need clarity on and documented what we're authorizing here.

There's a couple things.

It's the contract amount.

It's what we're getting in exchange for that, including the number of beds.

So would love to see an amendment on that.

Personally, another comment is that, and thank you Council Member Moore for pointing out that prior Seattle City Council, councils have made policy decisions that 180 beds is the intended threshold.

It's the intended cap, if you will, for beds and jail space here in the city of Seattle.

I have somewhat limited context, very limited context, not somewhat, but very limited context to how they arrived at that and the thought process that went into that does strike me as something that seems very arbitrary and capricious.

Pulled it out of a hat, sort of like when I pledged to defund the police by 50%.

But it is what it is.

But I see why you pointed that out, Councilmember Morris, because what we approved today doesn't even put us anywhere near close to a past policy decision by other councils.

And we're not even in the same ballpark.

Look, I'm a lawyer by training, and I actually went to law school on the implicit promise that I didn't have to be good at math and numbers.

But just doing it in my head just quickly, I think what this would provide us with capacity is for 105 beds.

105 beds, we're still 40-plus percentage points short of that 180-bed space.

We don't even need to revisit past policy decisions.

It's nowhere near right.

But anyway, so thank you for pointing that out.

It's an excellent point for us to understand the full context here.

And also, Council Member Moore, thank you for your leadership and your comments about the need to strongly explore involuntary treatment.

And it is something...

that I also support as well, exploring.

And like Chair Kettle, I don't know if I've heard elected officials have that kind of leadership publicly, but it is important.

I also, like you, Chair Kettle, have heard treatment providers whisper it in my ear, And when I was a candidate, knocking on 16,000 doors of people in District 1, of that 16,000, I'll say, there was a fair amount of residents who are now my constituents who were former addicts.

They were family of former addicts.

Friends, cousins, uncles, aunts, parents, nephews, nieces.

There were many cases, addicts themselves, and whenever, and this did come up a lot, and consistently everyone told me, people aren't just gonna snap out of it.

And this is, and for clarity, My impression is like most of these former addicts that I personally spoke with are pre-Fentanyl, which is a different level of intensity.

And so anyways, I strongly support us.

My sense is that would be a state level change that would be required, but we need to do better.

And then my question pertains to deaths.

So Director Walton, appreciate your, COMMENTS ON THAT, I AGREE THAT ONE DEATH IS TOO MANY, AND ALSO COUNCILMEMBER MORALES, THANK YOU FOR CALLING THAT OUT AS WELL, AND I SHARE YOUR CONCERN ON THE NUMBER OF DEATHS IN SCORE, SIX I THINK IN THE LAST YEAR.

IT'S ALARMING, IT'S SHOCKING, AND AGAIN, TO YOUR POINT, DIRECTOR WALTON, ONE DEATH IS TOO MANY.

I did read the staff memo and you preempted me because you said, by way of comparison, you talk about the deaths.

But I would like to learn a little bit more because as I understand it, according to the staff memo, so by the way, this isn't just a question for you, Greg, but like anyone, I think it would be helpful to better understand where the number of deaths fits to King County Jail.

So in the staff memo, there were 12 deaths since SCORE opened in 2011. And shockingly, there were six in the last year alone.

And then it goes on to say that there were 12 deaths in the King County Jail since 2021, so three-year period.

So it's not really an apples-to-apples comparison.

It's 10 deaths in a three-year period and however many deaths that I just said in however many period.

So any sense of how many deaths happen in the King County Jail since 2011?

That would be the most appropriate, I think, comparator Because, yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_06

Thanks, Council Member Saka.

So the information that's provided in the staff report was off of the King County website, and there is a state law that requires for correctional institutions to report deaths.

The data that was available only went back to 2022. It's possible that, or I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_99

21. 21.

SPEAKER_06

21 or 2019, I don't recall specifically, but I think it's likely that the data was reported per the state law that passed.

So it would take a little more research to get to the apples to apples comparison.

But the one other thing I would note is, you know, King County is a facility, especially pre-COVID, that had quite a few more detainees.

So comparing just the numbers of deaths to each other, it would really require an analysis to be able to look for the kind of information you're seeking.

SPEAKER_13

I'll add.

SPEAKER_05

Sorry about that.

I'll add a little bit to that and hand it over to Director Walton Anderson.

What we know is I think it was it's four deaths that scored in the last year than two the year prior.

There was an article that came out last week that said that since September, there have been six deaths in Snohomish County.

So this is a it is a problem that many jails face that doesn't minimize it.

I just want to be clear about that.

A.

B., We have thought a lot about this, and this came up during our stakeholder process.

And one of the ways that we think that we can mitigate this is that we will be more careful than perhaps other jurisdictions will be about who we book into SCORE, meaning that we have a choice that we can make.

If someone has significant hypertension, if they have underlying health issues, if they are in the throes of addiction or withdrawal, we are not going to book those people into jail, right?

I mean, so I think Will that avoid every fatality?

We can't promise that because it's impossible.

No one can promise that.

But we can take steps to minimize the likelihood with the population that we intend to book at score.

So I'll turn it over to you, Director Moore, if you have anything to add.

SPEAKER_46

No, I think one thing is that the Department of Health website, there was a new law that indicated we had to report any deaths from all of the facilities in Washington State.

And so that link, I can send it later in terms of follow-up, but it's something to be able to look at in terms of comparison.

The capacity at SCORE is 802. They are not at full capacity.

I think they're around 600. I'm not exactly sure.

Whereas King County's numbers are higher than that.

So I would note that.

I think that the information related to the deaths are really tragic.

And I think surprising to, and it's surprising even to the director of SCORE who notes that, you know, this is something that's shocking to them.

And it's also something that many of the jails are facing and the facilities are facing because again, we have a different type of drug and polysubstance use of different drugs and what that's doing.

And so I think it's difficult to mitigate that.

And even in the presentation that we had, I think it was last week or two weeks ago, in trying to understand overdose, just in, you know, overdose and the intersectionalities of crime within a two-block area.

We noted the number of overdoses in and around supportive housing.

The medical examiner sends out reports in terms of what our overdoses are in the city, and I had looked that up, and I think even just in terms of that, you know, we had 38 overdose deaths since June, and I think it's important to note that I think 11 of those In the last week, we're within the city of Seattle.

So it's something that everybody is struggling with.

I think in our jails, especially at SCORE, where they have 24-hour nursing care, they have a doctor on site at least 40 hours a week, they have ARNP and psychiatric services, and they are doing that.

They are doing their best to mitigate those concerns.

But I think it's important to look at overall what we are facing and why the need to get people into services and treatment.

And going back to something I wasn't able to respond to in terms of Councilmember Morales, why we picked the SCORE facility is because it's important to pick a facility where those treatment options are available, even though people may not be ready to engage.

Issaquah did not have those same treatment options in terms of the True Blood pilot.

So I do want to note the specific reasons why we chose SCORE is because of the ability to have those services, as opposed to none or limited.

SPEAKER_07

So thank you for all that.

Final question on the, I guess, Director Meyerberg, something you mentioned about the DAP zone and how now through the jail, King County Jail, we now can book in a certain geographic area, downtown, parts of Soto, et cetera.

Ideally, we would expand geographically or at a bare minimum.

As I understand it, this DAP zone is a temporary lifting of those restrictions in a geographic bounded area only.

So it's temporary and it's going to...

sunset or those restrictions are going to be reimposed, I guess, at a date certain, potentially in like the end of this.

When is that?

One.

And two, what is the path to making it permanent?

At least, and it sounds like, you know, our partners at the county are interested in negotiating and have been negotiating in good faith.

And, you know, I think this is a ripe area for the city and the county to continue down that path.

But what is that path to making that permanent?

SPEAKER_05

Permanent in that specific geo so just just an overview of The way the relationship works with King County is that currently there are booking restrictions that are set by the county There are exceptions to those booking restrictions so for example the high-utilizer some of the high-utilizer folks or people that can be our an articulable public safety threat or emphasis our exceptions the booking restrictions and The county has been a good partner in working with us when we do have operations or emphasis that we'd want to conduct.

But generally, when we do that, it is a date certain proposition, meaning that here we're looking to do to have increased emphasis in the DAP area for the summer.

Right.

With the concept being that at the end of the summer, we would reassess.

But that that the emphasis would likely not continue past the summer.

That being said, a central piece of the conversation that we're having with the county around the jail and the rate reset and all these other issues is the booking restrictions and is capacity.

And again, I don't want to get ahead of the conversations or necessarily delve too deeply into them publicly, but we have raised these issues and the county has been a willing partner.

And when we have more information to share, we'll come back and share it.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you.

Okay.

SPEAKER_13

Questions, comments?

Thank you, Vice Chair.

And last question.

SPEAKER_34

Yeah, when you say when we have more information we're happy to share and the county's being a good partner, again, I'm asking for better transparency.

And I failed to mention that this report, this work plan, was supposed to come to council on January 31st, 2023 that I referred to.

Like, what is happening with the money that we're spending at the jail?

So...

Do they have an underspend right now, and do they have some account where they're parking money that we are paying for those services, or is it all being spent because of said failure of cost recovery?

SPEAKER_05

Who was the they in that question?

SPEAKER_34

The county.

SPEAKER_05

I mean, you'd have to ask the county.

I mean, the county's position, which they made clear, is that there is no underspend because their rates have increased significantly.

And now we're basically neutral.

So the money that we're budgeting towards the county, the $22 million is, from their perspective, neutral.

SPEAKER_34

Okay.

So we're not continuing to spend it on these other programs that I read about before?

That's correct.

Okay.

Thank you very much.

Because a policy point, I will remind everybody, you made the point about the council imposed no more than $180 million.

We have three branches of government here.

The executive, the police arrest people, and the city attorney's office decides whether or not they're going to pursue a case.

And so sometimes I think the council gets out of our lane when it comes to parts of the criminal justice response and system that we don't really have ultimate control over.

And we sometimes infringe upon prosecutorial independence when we're talking about, well, making sure that we are adhering to past goals of certain responses that might not be relevant anymore.

SPEAKER_13

Okay, thank you, Council President.

Due to time, that would be the questions.

I do want to do a quick summary and thank you and just highlight some of the points that have been made.

The first one I already mentioned, thank you for highlighting because I don't want this perception out there that this score is a private jail.

It is not a private jail.

Thank you for making the points, all of you, on that.

Two, thank you very much for the points about deaths.

I mean, it's tragic.

It is...

horrific what you see.

And if you go in the jails, you see these individuals that are suffering.

But if you're on the streets, seeing the people that are suffering is incredible.

And if you see that and you recognize that, you understand the challenges.

Thank you for the context regarding four and two and then also some homeless.

I think that's an important context.

And if we do get some further context as it relates to the King County Jail, that would be very good as well.

THIRD POINT, AND RELATED TO THIS IN TERMS OF THE CONDITIONS OF THE PEOPLE THAT WE'RE SEEING ON THE STREETS, WE'RE SEEING IN OUR JAIL, IS THE MEDICAL POINT.

AND AGAIN, I RECOGNIZE ISSAQUAH DOES NOT HAVE ANYTHING CLOSE REGARDING MEDICAL COMPARED TO SCORE.

SO VERY GOOD IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, WHAT WE HAVE AND THE OPPORTUNITIES AND THE PROGRAMS THAT SCORE RELATED TO MEDICAL.

THAT'S VERY IMPORTANT.

Different area, good governance.

I really want to highlight the stakeholdering that's going on.

There's a lot of conversations, and I recognize and I appreciate DPD being here.

I appreciate ACLU being here.

But what I really appreciate is SEIU 925 remaining in the stakeholder group on the public defender side and engaging on this because it's important to have all aspects of this to include the court.

So thank you because that's good governance right there, and I appreciate that work that's being done on that effort.

The topic of budgeting.

I recognize that we're in a, you know, difficult positions related to the budget.

I recognize that $2 million is a big number.

But a big number is the impact on our communities, the economic impact of our public safety posture.

I am constantly talking to business, trying to convince them not to close and to have those people lose their jobs and to lose, you know, if you talk about budget, lose that revenue that the city is going to get.

I'm talking to investors out of state who are looking to come in.

I say, hey, new public safety team, new council, we're working it.

AND FOR THEM NOT TO MOVE AWAY.

AGAIN, OPPORTUNITY LOSS, LOSS REVENUE.

AND SO I APPRECIATE THE $2 MILLION, BUT I WOULD HAVE TO THINK, BASED ON MY CONVERSATIONS, THAT NUMBER'S DWARFED BY THE IMPACT OF A DOWNTOWN THAT IS NOT THRIVING.

AND SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT POINT, AND I'VE HEARD FROM MANY ON THAT.

THE NEXT POINT I WANTED TO MAKE, TOO, IS OFTEN PEOPLE TALK ABOUT EVIDENCE-BASED.

It's a bit of a throwaway term nowadays, but I point out the heat maps that I've seen from the city attorney's office, the heat maps that I've seen from the SPD, even DSA, the heat maps that show what's happening on our streets.

Also, the auditor report on the OD in crime, it clearly shows that's evidence and it clearly shows the need and the challenges that we have.

There's also evidence from being on the streets, from the ride-alongs and walk-alongs that I've done.

I've done it with SPD.

I've done it with HealthONE.

I've done it with groups, nonprofits on our streets, in green belts, all over the place.

And it's incredible what you see and understand as you do those outreach.

And that outreach also goes to, and I'm sure the Sheriff Raw and Sheriff Colton Dell probably don't like this, but I talk to officers all the time, not just Seattle PD, but King County Sheriff deputies.

And believe me, both groups, BOTH GROUPS ARE FRUSTRATED WITH WHAT'S HAPPENING, YOU KNOW, AND IT'S JUST A BASIC FACT.

THERE'S NO...

IT'S JUST THE NUMBERS.

I'M NOT SAYING THIS TO, YOU KNOW, TO INFLAME, BUT IT'S JUST A BASIC FACT THAT THEY'RE THEM WHO ARE TRYING TO CARRY OUT THEIR JOBS ARE FRUSTRATED IN TRYING TO DO THEIR JOB, AND I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT TO NOTE.

ALSO, YOU KNOW, GOOD QUESTION FROM MY COLLEAGUE, COUNCILMEMBER MORALES.

WHAT IS THIS ACCOMPLISHING?

I will tell you that respect to the neighbors and the public comment that we got, including here, that it's immediate impact in terms of what happens to our neighbors and our communities.

But, and this point was made.

I've been on the streets.

I had an individual come up to me, a man, his name's Jacob.

It's important to use names because he does have a name.

And he came at me strong.

And I wasn't sure how this was going to go.

And he had just gotten released out of treatment.

And he was scared because he didn't know where he was going to go that night.

He thought that if he ended up on the streets, he'd be dead because the last OD almost killed him.

And again, he was a strong guy, and I didn't know where it was going to go.

So I put on my hand to shake his hand because I didn't want him swinging with his right hand.

But also, I held it.

That human touch, all of a sudden, I felt his shoulders relax.

I saw a tear come from his eye.

And I'm like, okay, what can we do?

Because the system's failing, I hear you.

And he told me that, you know, when he's on the drugs, the fentanyl, he can't think he was doing this with his hands.

I can't think.

I shouldn't be allowed to make decisions.

I got released from an earlier treatment plan when I should never have been allowed to do that because I can't think.

We're like a child, he said.

And he said to me, he goes, you know, and sometimes we have to go to jail.

He kept swinging his hands.

He quickly said, don't keep us in there forever.

But he noted that for some individuals, that may be the point that changes their direction.

And I believe in that testimony from Jacob.

And I've seen it many times in terms of what I've been doing IN TERMS OF PUBLIC SAFETY.

TWO LAST POINTS.

AGAIN, I REALLY APPRECIATE ALL THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, BECAUSE IT REALLY HELPS, IT REALLY INFORMS, IT AUGMENTS WHAT WE'VE BEEN DOING IN TERMS OF ENGAGING WITH THE COMMUNITY IN COMMUNITY, AND THEN ALL THE OTHER OUTREACH THAT WE'VE DONE.

SO THANK YOU.

AND AGAIN, I DO APPRECIATE HAVING DPD AND ACLU AND OTHERS HERE, AND I REALLY APPRECIATE FORMER COUNCILMEMBER, KING COUNTY COUNCILMEMBER GOSSETT, FOR BEING HERE, AND ALSO NOTING, UPON READING the ordinance, as opposed to getting talking points, said, oh, this strikes me as balanced.

And I think that's what we need.

I think we need, you know, meetings like this to go through it and show that we're looking to be balanced.

And the last point, and this kind of goes to Council President, actually everybody, our job is to do the oversight.

And we will do that oversight both on the budget piece, but then also on the operational impacts of you know, moving forward.

So with that said, thank you again very much.

And at this point, I would like to move that the committee recommend passage of Council Bill 120825. Is there a second?

SPEAKER_15

Second.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you.

Clerk?

Council Member, we're seconded.

Any additional comments?

I think we've had enough comments.

My clerk is noting that there's always that opportunity for final comment, but I believe we've had a lot of comment.

SPEAKER_08

If I could say one thing, Mr. Chair.

SPEAKER_13

Yes, Council Member Hollingsworth.

SPEAKER_08

Just a heads up.

I'm going to be abstaining from the vote until I have more information.

I know we're voting on it next week, but just would like some more information and background.

It's not a no.

I just would like some more information on it.

So just wanted to give everyone a heads up.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_13

All right.

Thank you very much, Council Member Hollingsworth.

Will the clerk please call the roll and pass it?

SPEAKER_07

Actually, Mr. Chair, I do think we need to, I have some other comments, but I think if there's a motion and a second, I think you do open it up for further discussion under Robert's rules, but.

Yes, that's why my clerk informed me that, so yes.

SPEAKER_13

If I may, so.

We'll get you back on Zoom too, so I can't see the hands up, so sorry.

SPEAKER_07

YEAH, NO, LET ME JUST SAY, IN THE INTEREST OF TIME, I REALLY DO APPRECIATE THE THOUGHT THAT WENT INTO THIS, AND MR. CHAIR, YOUR LEADERSHIP IN HOPING TO DRIVE THIS AND STREAMLINE THIS.

I DO HAVE THAT ONE THING THAT I WOULD APPRECIATE CLARITY ON IN TERMS OF SOMETHING THAT I VIEW AS A MATERIAL TERM.

and condition of this proposed agreement but in all I think this is a thoughtful balanced approach to public safety that recognizes the importance of of diversion and treatment and policing, enforcement, and yes, sometimes detention.

And so I am going to be voting in favor of this today.

That said, would appreciate the additional clarity, like I mentioned.

Also good to know there is strong historical precedent for this.

And there are The SCORE facility, I think, is a good deal for the city of Seattle.

It's an accredited facility.

It's a compliant facility.

It's compliant with the American Correctional Association standards.

It's accredited by both the National Commission on Correctional Health Care and the Washington State Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs, amongst other organizations.

ACCREDITATIONS AND COMPLIANCE STANDARDS.

AND LIKE THE UNIQUE FEATURE THAT IT HAS, TOO, EMBEDDED ON-SITE COMPETENCY EVALUATION EXPERTS.

SO THANK YOU, MR. CHAIR.

SPEAKER_13

I LOOK FORWARD TO SUPPORTING THIS TODAY.

ALL RIGHT.

THANK YOU, VICE CHAIR.

SORRY FOR NOT SEEING THAT YOU HAD YOUR VIRTUAL OR REAL HAND LIFTED.

SPEAKER_34

BRAGG HAD ONE MORE CLARITY THING.

SPEAKER_13

AND COUNCILMEMBER MOORE?

Oh, sorry, Greg.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I just wanted to speak to Councilmember Saka's point about the ILA.

I don't want to make it appear like I was contradicting Director Meyerberg.

The number will be 20 guaranteed beds.

I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE ILA OFFERS FLEXIBILITY BEYOND THOSE 20 GUARANTEED BEDS TO SEEK ADDITIONAL BEDS AT A FURTHER TIME.

AND THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE A PLAN TO GROW THAT NUMBER ORDER OF MAGNITUDE.

BUT IT WILL BE 20 BEDS IN AN AMENDMENT THAT WOULD ATTACH A NEW ILA.

SO I WANT TO MAKE SURE THERE'S NO CONFUSION THERE AND THAT I WAS NOT CONTRADICTING THE DIRECTOR.

SPEAKER_07

No, that's not how I interpreted it.

But if 20 beds is the floor, great.

That's fine.

Just need that documented.

SPEAKER_13

So thank you.

Yes, Vice Chair.

It will be documented as clerks and essential staff and the team.

We will be crossing those T's and dotting those I's.

Yes.

Council Member Moore.

SPEAKER_15

Yeah, thank you, Chair.

So I think you could tell by my comments earlier, I am supportive.

I will be voting for this out of committee today.

I do wanna give a heads up though and noting on page eight of Greg's memo that there is an opportunity to add AN AMENDMENT LANGUAGE RELATING TO REPORTING ON SOLUTIONS TO OPERATIONAL OR POLICY ISSUES AS A CONDITION OF IMPLEMENTATION, AND SO I WILL BE CONSIDERING SUCH AMENDMENT JUST AS A HEADS-UP.

SPEAKER_13

YES, THANK YOU.

I APPRECIATE THAT.

COUNCIL PRESIDENT?

NO.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

WILL THE CLERK PLEASE CALL THE ROLL ON THE PASSAGE OF COUNCIL BILL 120825?

SPEAKER_24

Council Member Hollingsworth.

Abstain.

Council Member Moore.

SPEAKER_15

Aye.

SPEAKER_24

Council President Nelson.

SPEAKER_15

Aye.

SPEAKER_24

Council Member Saka.

Aye.

Chair Kettle.

Aye.

There are four for and zero against and one abstention.

SPEAKER_13

The motion carries and the committee recommendation that council pass Council Bill 120825 will be sent to the full City Council.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

AND AGAIN, THANK YOU EVERYONE.

WHAT WE SEE HERE is looking at our criminal justice system, our public safety and public health system.

And we will be working these issues with King County and other entities as we move forward.

And we will do this with compassion and wisdom.

We see this balance in our legislation and our efforts to address our public safety challenges overall.

And we need to remember that in the long term, we need to have a strong and safe city across all communities so we can continue to help those in need.

And one last point, too, is that we will work forward.

And I recognize the challenges, the differences in terms of philosophy and ideology.

But one of the things related to misdemeanors is that we cannot just dismiss them.

We can't just mitigate and explain away the misdemeanor crime.

Yes, misdemeanors compared to felonies don't match up.

But the bottom line in our city, and this is what our neighbors are feeling, is that there is a staggering amount of misdemeanor crime that in the whole is having massive impacts on our neighbors.

And it's having massive impacts on those individuals that are in need.

And that's where our focus needs to be.

So thank you for that.

And hearing, I imagine there's no additional, hearing no objection.

Sorry, sorry.

We have reached the end of today's meeting agenda.

If there's no further business before the committee comes to adjourn, seeing none, hearing none, no further business to come before the committee, we are adjourned.

SPEAKER_99

Thank you.