SPEAKER_33

Good morning.

SPEAKER_99

The Public Safety Committee will come to order.

It's 9.32 a.m., July 31st, 2024. I'm Robert Kettle, chair of the Public Safety Committee.

Will the committee clerk please call the roll?

SPEAKER_58

Excuse me.

Council Member Hollingsworth.

Council Member Moore.

SPEAKER_39

Present.

SPEAKER_58

Council President Nelson.

SPEAKER_39

Present.

SPEAKER_58

Council Member Sacco.

Here.

Chair Kettle.

Here.

SPEAKER_51

Chair, there are four members present.

Thank you.

Thank you.

If there's no objection, the agenda will be adopted.

Hearing and seeing no objection, the agenda is adopted.

GOOD MORNING, EVERYONE.

THANK YOU, EVERYONE, FOR COMING OUT.

I REALLY APPRECIATE IT, PARTICULARLY OUR PUBLIC COMMENTERS.

IT'S IMPORTANT TO HAVE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO HEAR FROM COMMUNITY.

WE LISTEN.

FOR EXAMPLE, THE PIONER SQUARE HISTORICAL COMMISSION, WHEN WE HAD OUR VACANT BUILDING ABATEMENT BILL, WE HEARD A LOT OF DIFFERENT VOICES ON THE AUTOMATIC LICENSE PLATE READER BILL, THE ALPR.

and also testimony on the dangers of street racing.

You know, this commentary, this public comment, led to amendments that made our bills better.

And we need to listen and critically hear in your voice to hear your different perspectives and your different experiences.

Also, we need to note, and this is important too, that public comment is not only time THAT COUNCIL MEMBERS HEAR COMMENTS ON THE ISSUES OF THE DAY.

THE ONE THING THEY COULD BE EMAILED IN, IN ADDITION TO ANY VERBAL COMMENTS, WE HAVE MEETINGS IN OUR OFFICES.

I HAVE MEETINGS IN MY OFFICE AND IN COMMUNITY, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I'VE HAD MEETINGS WITH OUR DISTRICT 7 NEIGHBORHOOD COUNCIL, AND DON'T BE SURPRISED, BUT IN GROCERY STORES AND RESTAURANTS AND EVEN WHILE I'M WALKING MY DOGS.

AND, OF COURSE, THIS DOESN'T COUNT EMAILS THAT COME IN AND OTHER TYPES OF CORRESPONDENTS.

Very important to note this public comment.

I also want to take a moment to recognize a very important point, too, regarding that at times we have disinformation and misinformation.

You know, for example, you know, obviously a group of some sort had a talking point that the score jail was a private jail.

You know, that is...

disinformation.

And then when it gets echoed out, that's misinformation.

And as we've seen at the national level, misinformation can be like a virus, you know, impacting what we see and what we hear and impacts our democracy.

And, you know, clearly there are policy points that we can say is politics and we should be debating and hearing and having conversations about.

But like on that fact point regarding score a private jail or a public, that goes to disinformation information.

And we see this at the national level, and we do want to avoid this at the local level.

And as one would note, disinformation and misinformation can drive one crazy.

Also, a thing that's come up in committee meetings and the like is the clapping and the disruptions and the different pieces like that.

It's a general counsel position that I support, but I do like acknowledging support for those that are speaking.

So I'm advocating for the snaps.

I think that's a great way to express your approval for staff.

whatever comment that may be made.

And so I just like to ask, can everybody snap if you're for soda?

Are you here for soda?

Okay, how about, are you here for soap?

Can you snap?

And I think one thing that we can bring everybody together, are we all for public safety and creating a safe city for all residents?

I think that's something that we can come together.

And I'd like to acknowledge the lady out there that was doing Council Member Strauss' jazz hands.

So thank you for that.

Jazz hands is acceptable as well.

And I bring this up because we don't see this in Congress.

We don't see this in state legislatures.

I don't think King County Council really sees it as well.

And I just think we need to be having this dialogue and hearing from everyone to include the presenters that we have.

So to close, I just want to thank you again.

FOR GIVING PUBLIC COMMENT, FOR JUST EVEN IF YOU DON'T STAND UP, JUST FOR BEING HERE.

I THINK IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND SO WELCOME TO ALL OF YOU AND ALSO WELCOME TO OUR GUESTS, SPEAKERS, PRESENTERS ON THE ISSUES THAT WE HAVE COVERING TODAY.

SO WITH THAT, WE WILL NOW OPEN THE HYBRID PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD.

PUBLIC COMMENT SHOULD RELATE TO ITEMS ON TODAY'S AGENDA.

I THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH ON TODAY'S AGENDA THAT WE CAN COMMENT ABOUT OR WITHIN THE PURVIEW OF THE COMMITTEE.

Clerk, how many speakers are signed up for today?

SPEAKER_58

Well, we have 60 and counting in-person speakers and 53 online as the last count goes.

SPEAKER_51

Okay.

Each speaker will have one minute at some point based on time restraints.

We may have to cut it off, but we're going to look to get as many, if not all, public commenters in.

So please start with the in-person speakers.

Let's go at 10 at a shot, 10 at a time.

And when you hear your name, please kind of line up and to facilitate the movement of all the speakers.

Over to you, clerk.

SPEAKER_58

The public comment period will be moderated in the following manner.

The public comment period is up to 90 or so minutes.

Speakers will be called in which order in which they registered.

Speakers will alternate between sets of 10 in-person and remote speakers until public comment period has ended.

Speakers will hear a chime when 10 seconds are left of their time.

Speakers' mics will be muted if they do not end their comments within the allotted time to allow us to call on the next speaker.

The public comment period is now open, and we'll begin with the first speaker on the list.

The first in-person speaker is Alex Zimmerman, followed by Emi Koyama and Aaron Gardner.

Thank you very much.

Hello.

SPEAKER_51

Good day.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Where is my time?

There you go.

Oh, here.

One minute.

Yeah, I love this.

Sieg, Sieg, Sieg, Sieg, Sieg Heil, my lovely consul.

A Nazi, Gestapo psychopath.

Yeah.

Yeah, you are a psychopath.

My name, Alex Zimmerman.

Yeah, you have a brilliant idea.

I know you're very smart.

You know what it means.

You want to stop prostitution.

You know what it means.

It's never happened before for 5,000 years, as I know.

But you are smart.

You are brilliant.

So my proposition, you know what it means.

Masturbation is much better than prostitute.

Safety.

So we need something doing good for people and good for government.

So you cannot masturbate for one minute, but it's not a point.

So my proposition, so when you masturbate, bring your sperm to government and pay $10 for this.

You know what this means?

You will win, government will win, people will be safe, and everybody will be happy.

Idiot wants to be happy in exactly $750,000.

Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_58

Next up, we have Emi Koyama, followed by Erin Gardner, and then Sarah Leibner.

SPEAKER_56

Hi, my name is Emi Koyama, and I'm with the Coalition for Rights and Safety for People in the Sex Trade, and also with Eileen, the peer-led community organizing hospitality space by and for women who are working along Pacific Highway in South King County.

where our peer outreach workers have been subjected to police harassment under the guise of enforcing prostitution loitering laws.

Over the last couple of months, we have spoken with each of you or your staff about our concerns about those bills.

that's now being considered.

Russian loitering law and soap orders promote racial and gender profiling against women of color and trans women, whether or not they are actually involved in the sex trade.

It further marginalizes people who engage in sex trade, endangers them from isolation and displacement, and excludes them from outreach and drop-in services that their lives depend on.

I ask the council to fund services for the women, the community-based outreach workers who can help women access them.

Then stop trying to make the police take on the tasks they are not equipped for.

And please stop blaming gun violence and other violent crimes on the people who are not perpetrating it and who are not in any way responsible for them.

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up, we have Erin Gardner, followed by Sarah Liebner.

Please come line up.

SPEAKER_32

Good morning.

I live in the proposed SOAP district and I've been directly impacted by the dramatic spike in gun violence over the last year along Aurora.

However, I'm here because I'm involved in advocacy work for sex trafficking survivors and I want to address some of the misconceptions that I've been seeing online about this issue.

First of all, I agree that women should be able to work and support themselves however they see fit, but that's not what's happening here.

At least 45% of women excuse me, 45% of people engaged in sex work in the Seattle area are minors.

That's according to the Washington office of the superintendent, which acknowledges that the number is likely much higher, but it's very difficult to track.

The average age of someone when they were first sex trafficked is 13 years old.

That's an average, 13. I learned that from a nonprofit that's been working with survivors.

And just recently, Captain Agard said that police rescued a 12-year-old girl who was being trafficked along Aurora at 90th Street.

Complicating the issue is that within the last year, pimps have flooded Aurora and our surrounding neighborhoods.

They circle our neighborhoods in luxury cars with out-of-state plates.

California, Texas, Illinois, Oregon, and more recently, Nevada.

So we're not talking about independent women making their own choices here.

We're talking about underage girls, largely.

And we're talking about violent armed men who are coming in from other cities and states to sell them.

This is organized crime.

We need immediate action.

I support the civil law to help these women separate from their pimps.

Thank you for the extra time.

SPEAKER_58

We have Sarah Liebner, followed by Ian Jordan, and then Amanda Robinson.

SPEAKER_23

This conversation is complex, and one minute isn't enough.

I live in the proposed soap zone.

Over the past year, our neighborhood has become a violent playground for pimps profiting off of women's and young girls' bodies.

Too many bullets have come within inches of hitting neighbors, and too many bullets have hit trafficked girls.

Anyone living in our neighborhood can see things can't continue this way.

The city should be doing everything possible to apprehend pimps as they pose a threat to everyone.

Trafficked girls do not need more trauma from cops.

This law should focus on pimps.

Right now on Aurora, pimps are running the show with reckless abandon and the city is letting it happen.

We have to prioritize disrupting their violent enterprise and making the streets safer for all.

Close off traffic from Aurora into the neighborhoods and make sure pimps know they are not welcome there.

away from vulnerable girls, both on the street and in homes nearby.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up, Ian Jordan, followed by Amanda Robinson and Andrew Steelsmith.

SPEAKER_55

My name's Ian Jordan.

I also live in this proposed soap zone.

Most of you have probably seen the videos of the shootings on the news.

Those are all in front of my home.

These pimps are fighting over turf, and it's just a matter of time before someone is killed.

Unfortunately, those that have been hit have been sex workers.

I no longer have friends or family come to my home.

Hypervigilance is now my norm.

I work in the ICU taking care of critically ill patients, and that is now my safe spot.

After three shootings on my block in less than 12 days, the city finally took some action and put in barriers to block the running gun battles that occur more than once a week, just down my street.

The street closure has been incredibly transformative, but it's only one.

We need to focus on public safety and we need to make protecting the lives of not only the residents, but the girls forced to work on Aurora from this violence.

It's time to make a change because the current situation is not working for anyone.

Those that don't live there and live where I do, don't understand what we go through on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Amanda Robinson, followed by Andrew Steelsmith.

There are multiple microphones you can line up at also.

Amanda Robinson, there we are, hi.

SPEAKER_15

Hello.

My name is Amanda.

My pronouns are any and all.

And I live directly off of Aurora.

I just want to share some personal experiences that I've had living there.

When I come home, I have to make sure my keys are out.

I have to have my pepper spray.

I have to have a knife.

I have to make sure that I don't turn on my lights right when I go inside.

If there's a pimp parked in my parking, I can't park.

I've been followed.

I've been held at gunpoint.

I've been somebody tried to stab me.

I've been spit on.

I've had shit thrown on me.

I cannot tell you how stressful my life at home is.

I don't sleep.

I hardly eat anymore.

I go to work at an ICU, and that's my best night.

I worked 12 hours and came to this meeting because it was so important to me to say my personal experiences and how absolutely, unbelievably horrible our living situation is. constantly ready for any bullet to fly through our house and hit me, my husband, my neighbors, anyone.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_15

Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_51

And thank you for your service as a nurse and the speaker before.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Andrew Steelsmith, followed by Trey Sullivan.

Please come up and be ready.

Michael McDaniel will be next.

SPEAKER_52

Hi.

I made a YouTube video about the insanity in our neighborhood last year.

If I could talk to myself a year ago, I'd say, oh, sweet summer child, you just wait.

Back then, it was mostly independent sex workers that used to be online, bringing johns into our neighborhood to service them.

That's not the case anymore.

Here are just a few things that have happened since.

A neighbor discovered a 15-year-old hiding from her pimp in the garden of her complex.

She brought her in and got her in a safe house.

A few months later, she honked at a group of prostitutes blocking her apartment garage.

They followed her and dragged her out of her car.

Together with their pimp, they beat her with their own cane.

This is on 107th.

I was driving home late February and watched two pimps block both lanes of Southbound Aurora, get out and approach a girl that looked 17 years old.

I watched from the turning lane as he pulled her hips towards him from behind as she walked in circles trying to get away.

What I saw next made me sick.

This girl saw me thinking I was the police and walked straight at me onto Aurora.

You can see her hopeful look change when she realized it was just me.

He walked up behind her and yanked her backwards by her hair towards his car.

I never saw her again and he's still pimping.

If you stand on Aurora, you need a pimp.

If you need a pimp, you aren't a sex worker, you're a victim.

Until this law is signed, the johns turning into our streets and the pimps shooting up our neighborhood are untouchable.

The victims are unreachable.

If these laws are implemented half-assed, without the funding needed for beds and services, and without enforcing the laws that will put these felons in jail, I will be protesting with all of you.

Until then, let Kathy Moore do what we've been begging her to do for months.

Get us out of this nightmare.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

And just as a reminder, when you hear that ding, that's 10 seconds remaining.

And again, we have a lot of speakers, so we try to keep this right to the minute.

SPEAKER_58

Next.

Trey Sullivan, followed by Michael McDaniel.

You can use multiple...

Microphones and if it's better height for you, go ahead.

SPEAKER_25

Perfect.

Thank you.

Hey, so after over the last three years or so, it has become rampant up in my neighborhood for the soap zone.

We've had multiple violent attacks.

We've had neighbors attacked.

We've had guns come, like shots come through our house.

We have seen girls get shot at that were working the street.

Most of these girls are minors too.

So coming at this, there is a big issue going on that needs to be taken action against because there's nothing we can really do.

We're told, no, we can't get help from the cops because the old law was repelled.

We're told we're just kind of stuck with this until something happens.

If we don't have ACCOUNTABILITY AND SOMETHING IS LEFT LAWLESS BY THE STATE OR IT'S ILLEGAL BY THE STATE BUT LAWLESS IN THE CITY, THERE'S NO THINGS TO MODERATE IT AND IT'S BECOME SUPER DANGEROUS.

SPEAKER_58

THANK YOU.

MICHAEL MCDANIEL FOLLOWED BY JAN BRYAN.

HELLO.

SPEAKER_53

OH, BOY, THAT TIMER IS REALLY INTIMIDATING.

I MOVED INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO BUILD COMMUNITY JUST A YEAR AND A HALF AGO.

AND THE NEIGHBORS ARE AWESOME.

I KNOW THERE'S ALWAYS BEEN PROBLEMS ON AURORA, BUT FROM EVERYONE I'VE TALKED TO WHO'S BEEN HERE, YOU KNOW, EVEN 10, 20 OR 30 YEARS, LAST FEW YEARS HAVE GOTTEN A LOT WORSE.

You know, I'm not a pro-gun kind of person.

And thanks to living in this neighborhood, I can tell you the difference in sound between like a bump stock and a semi-automatic weapon.

Because there were, especially this two or three month period a while back where there were multiple gunshots within a few blocks of our house, waking us up at night.

I've lost, my mom was, my mom did, the other thing I want to mention is my mom did sex work when I was in high school briefly.

And that was a hell of a lot better than being put out on the street.

I really don't want a law that's going after them, but I also need a law to stop the gun violence and prevent all the new neighbors and people that I'm making from leaving.

I'm trying to put down roots, and they keep getting ripped up.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

We have Jan Bryan, and then we'll go to remote speakers.

BJ Last will be first for remote.

SPEAKER_44

Hi.

Not long ago on a typically cold, wet, rainy, dark Seattle night, I went up to the Lowe's to get some home improvement stuff.

As I was checking out, a couple of girls walked in through the exit door.

They didn't look much older than 20, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were younger.

They weren't wearing much, and they looked cold.

One of them looked like she'd been crying.

Her hair was wet, her cheeks were flushed red, her makeup was a mess.

I wondered if she'd just had a violent encounter with a pimp or maybe a john.

She looked sick, maybe high, totally miserable.

The other girl asked the Lowe's attendant where the bathroom was.

He pointed in that direction, and they hurried away.

I think about those girls a lot.

I wonder...

If either one of them are the girls I habitually and intentionally ignore when I drive past the Mount Aurora Avenue, I wonder if they're still alive.

I wonder if there's anything I could have said or done to help.

That night I asked myself that question.

What can I do?

I had no answer.

I did nothing.

I failed those girls that night just like I fail every victim of sex trafficking when I intentionally and habitually ignore them.

looking away, doesn't ignore their humanity.

It denies it.

It denies the violence done to them by the pimps and johns.

It denies the fact that human slavery exists in my neighborhood.

We call it trafficking, but I know that we're talking about men buying girls from other men.

It has to stop, and I know that we as a city can do better.

I think this bill moves in the right direction.

I hope so.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

We're going to remote speakers.

BJ Lass will be our first, followed by Peter Condit.

Please press star six when you hear the prompt.

You've been unmuted.

SPEAKER_61

My name is DJ Lass, my D6 homeowner, and I'm calling to counsel to reject soda and soap.

The proposed soda zones are not anticipated to reduce public drug use.

That's a direct quote from the central staff memo on soda.

The SOAP memo says the same thing.

I can see why council members kept trying to get the memos changed.

What these zones would do is they'd punish people who haven't been convicted of anything.

That's everything people have been talking about, shooting, assaults, like that's illegal.

Prostitution, it's all already illegal.

That's all there.

What this does, this will let the judge create a brand new crime of someone that's been arrested and before any conviction, just apply a brand, create a brand new crime.

We know this will be disproportionately applied.

Research shows judges impose harsher penalties on BIPOC community members when they have discretion, which these bills provide.

And SODA and SOAP also turned certain areas of the city into stop and frisk.

SPD stops black community members at seven times the rate of white community members and the indigenous community members at nine times the rate of white community members.

These zones amount to attempts to manage BIPOC community members from certain parts of the city, given how disproportionate the impacts are.

People will know if they go to an area and they're not white, they're going to get stopped by cops.

They're going to get harassed by cops because that's what this allows.

And it allows the courts in the city just to banish people.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next, we have Peter Condit.

SPEAKER_41

Hello, this is Peter Condit calling from Northwest Green Lake near Aurora to voice my opposition to the drug and prostitution exclusion zone legislation.

These bills create no resources for people experiencing violence to get help.

Banning community members from where they live and work is destabilizing and increases the risks associated with sex work and drug use.

The SOAP legislation in particular would directly impact me and my family as we live our lives along Aurora.

Police are often abusers themselves.

and giving cops discretionary power to approach suspected sex workers will increase the likelihood of police violence and rape.

I do not want SPD officers to gaze at my daughter to try to figure out if they could pay her for sex.

I do not want police to be able to use the threat of arrest to coerce any woman into doing something they would not otherwise do.

This open SOTA legislation undermines everyone's safety and ability to build a better life.

Council members Moore and Kettle and all people speaking in support of these bills, I blame on you for your lack of compassion and your attempt to use these bills to simply punt people you see as undesirable to other neighborhoods.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up, we have Kit Paul, followed by Gabriel Newman.

SPEAKER_65

Hi, my name is Kit, and I am calling to ask you to vote no on the proposed soap and soda bills.

I live in District 5 directly in that proposed scope zone on Aurora.

And like many of my neighbors, I am concerned about the increase in violence in my area.

But loitering laws like this one have been shown to do nothing to help with reducing gun violence, and that's backed by research done by Seattle itself.

This city has limited resources, and we should be using them to help people, not harm them.

If someone is arrested under this proposed law, they'd be prevented from accessing resources at places like the Aurora Commons, which is my neighbor, blocked from transit or even kept from their homes before going to trial.

That is not the kind of bill proposal I want to see from my city council, much less the council member who represents my district.

Again, I am asking you to vote no on this proposal.

Thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Thank you.

We're going now to Gabriel Newman followed by Josh Martinez.

Gabriel, please press star six.

Okay, we're going to skip over to Josh Martinez and come back to Gabriel if he's ready.

Okay.

Gabriel, go ahead.

SPEAKER_66

I'm so sorry.

Good morning, City of Seattle.

My name is Gabriel Newman, and I'm the Policy Counsel and Government Relations Manager at GSBA, Washington's LGBTQ Plus Chamber of Commerce.

I'm testifying today to urge you to not implement the proposed soda zone.

Our members spanning citywide that the unintended impacts of soda will cause more harm than good.

People banned from soda zones downtown will move into nearby economic areas like Capitol Hill.

This will exacerbate the citywide public safety crisis because these areas are much less resourced than downtown.

Cap Hill does not have a community service officer.

Our care team has yet to be implemented.

And the East Precinct has been clear they do not have the personnel to carry out the additional patrols business owners have already been requesting for years.

As a result, untrained employees like baristas have become the frontline responders to behavioral health crises.

Businesses are consistently shutting down.

This neighborhood and others nearby are simply not resourced to accommodate the inevitable crime that soda zones will create.

Seattle is an ecosystem, not just a downtown corridor.

If one area suffers, the whole city does.

Please ensure that our city is fully resourced.

SPEAKER_58

Next up, we have Josh Martinez to be followed by Kai Badenwaden.

Sorry about the pronunciations.

Josh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_57

My name is Josh Martinez.

I'm a small business owner in District 2. Council members, I know that cruelty is not what you want.

I know the residents in your districts aren't asking you for that.

The bills that council members Moore and Kettle are proposing today are cruel.

They won't solve the shootouts in the area or the cases of human trafficking that we've heard today.

If these laws have any effect, it will be that they go after people who don't deserve it.

The council repealed the prostitution and loitering laws in 2020 because they learned about the harms they caused.

The public testimony today, articles, and extra support are saying that these laws will hurt the people you claim you want to protect.

Police officers committed solicitation and sexual abuse under those laws.

Stay-out zones won't deter people who are gunfighting.

These laws will only harass and endanger whoever the police decide to target.

I know you want Seattle residents to think you are tough on crime, but the laws you're proposing will not stop crime or help anyone.

These rules will make it harder for Seattleites trying to live.

Let's find other ways to care for people in your district because these aren't it.

Please vote no today.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

We're going to Kai Van Waden next.

Please press star six.

SPEAKER_65

Hello, my name is Kai Van Waden.

I live in District 5. I am a health care worker and I am asking the Council to vote no on the loitering, prostitution, soap and soda bills.

We know because of research and data that these are discriminatory laws.

We know that and that is why it was repealed in the first place.

These issues in our district are important, but criminalizing and punishing the most vulnerable population is not the answer to this.

The fact that this is even coming up makes me really concerned that the city council is not proposing bills that are based on research and data.

This is extremely irresponsible for our community members, and I urge you to please vote no on this bill.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Next up we have Jasmine Clark to be followed by Annalise Mellon.

Jasmine, yeah, please press star six, there you go.

SPEAKER_65

Good morning.

My name is Jasmine Clark.

I'm a policy program director at the ACLU of Washington.

I'm calling in today in addition to our letter sent to the city attorney and council members last week to express our opposition to all of these proposals.

These proposals not only cruelly target our most vulnerable populations, expand police powers, perpetuate the failed policies of criminalizing poverty and substance use disorder, and raise serious constitutional concerns.

Laws such as these result in discretionary and discriminatory enforcement.

These proposals lack support services or alternatives to arrest and disproportionately target poor women of color and trans women, furthering systemic inequalities.

Research consistently shows that exclusion zones like soda and soap zones are ineffective in achieving their intended goals and ultimately stigmatize individuals struggling with substance use disorder or engaging in sex work.

Importantly, the Seattle City Auditor recently outlined recommendations and emphasized evidence-based strategies rather than creating exclusionary zones.

These proposals offer Seattle residents more of the same failed public safety policies of the past and do not solve the problem of addiction, houselessness, and engaging in sex work for survival.

Instead, the city should invest in collaborative efforts among agencies, community organizations, and residents to develop programs that uplift our entire community.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next is Annalise Mellon.

To be followed by Marshall Bender.

SPEAKER_65

Good morning, my name is Annalise and I'm a sex worker living in District 7. In a state and city where a former city council member murdered a sex worker, I find the proposal of the SOAP bill particularly abhorrent and insidious.

I strongly oppose the SOAP bill proposed by Kathy Moore of District 5. As a former judge, Kathy should know that this bill is unconstitutional, violating the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment by imposing punitive measures without fair procedures.

While targeting sex work of historically marginalized people of color, LGBTQIA plus individuals, and those living in poverty.

These laws perpetuate cycles of criminalization and marginalization similar to the harmful effects of redlining practices that have oppressed minority communities for decades.

By enforcing such laws, we further entrench these communities in systemic inequality and injustice.

This draconian bill seeks to further strip women's rights away and aligns with the repressive goals of Project 2025. We need to protect and empower sex workers, not criminalize and marginalize them.

We are not trafficked, helpless individuals carrying out violent crimes.

We are taxpayers.

We are business owners.

We are voters.

We are students.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

We're going now to Marshall Bender, then Tyson Feaster to be followed by back into in-person speakers.

Let's see, Marshall.

Marshall, please press star six.

SPEAKER_63

Okay.

Hello.

My name is Marshall Bender, and I'm a resident of District 5 living in Northgate, calling today to oppose soda and soap laws proposed in this committee.

Council Member Moore's soap law is an attempt to revise short-sighted, discriminatory, foolish, and waste of taxpayer dollars and police sources' loitering law.

Why?

Because the law is insane.

It's nonsensical, regressive, and so vague that it led to extremely biased enforcement of prostitution loitering laws.

And in 2020, as many people have already said, the city council unanimously voted to repeal this law because of these facts.

And now you all want to bring it back.

Why?

Did the police union talk you into this so they can coerce sex workers without punishment?

The premise of the law is basically that cops should be able to arrest and charge people for simply looking like they might be a prostitute.

What about due process?

Why are you advocating to take away people's freedom of movement and to ban them from entire neighborhoods as a condition of pretrial release or after a conviction?

This is not just a threat to these people, but to all people in Seattle as it directly attacks our civil liberties.

It's an attack on our right to exist in public space.

It isn't just anti-sex worker, it's anti-human.

SPEAKER_58

Vote no.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Now we're going to Tyson Feaster for our last remote commenter for this set.

We'll go to Rick Fordyce in person.

Please get ready for that.

Tyson, go ahead.

Hello?

SPEAKER_62

Hello.

This is Tyson Feaster from District 6. I'm in support of soap and soda legislation.

I think the city needs as many tools as possible to get drug users and dealers off the street, as well as Pence and Johns.

I appreciate this legislation being put forward and hope everybody votes yes.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_42

I'm Rick.

I grew up in North Seattle.

John Rogers, Jane Addams, Nathan Hale, I happily walked to all of them.

The last 19 years, I've lived in this soap zone and want to go from nothing to what it is now.

And one story has always stood out.

Three years ago, There was a heat dome in 2001, 2021, a heat dome.

They warned about it.

The temperature hit 108 degrees.

Everybody was isolated, and I had to go somewhere.

I got in the car.

I drove out.

Down at Aurora was this young woman standing out there, barely able to stand up.

Across the street was her pimp in an air-conditioned car.

I was raised a feminist in this city, and so I wondered, where are the women in this city?

How come they're not surrounding this guy's car with baseball bats or something?

So it has only gotten worse, and you need to do something.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Next up in person will be Tina Varely, followed by Diane Sadari.

SPEAKER_28

Hello, I live in the proposed soap zone, which has been at the epicenter of gun violence on Aurora this year.

Imagine moving to a new neighborhood only to find yourself fearing for your life, worried that one day you will be caught in the crossfire.

Why should people in Shoreline get to sleep quietly at night with their soap legislation when people along the Aurora corridor must experience gun violence and witness sex trafficking every day?

This law targets the violent pimps whose gun fights and turf wars have spilled into our neighborhoods along Aurora.

It also targets the men who crawl into our neighborhoods at night looking for girls and women who are being sex trafficked.

Pass this law now so that we can have some relief.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Next up, Diane Sadari to be followed by Megan Cruz.

SPEAKER_68

Hi, I live off of Aurora and 105th and I share the perspective of many of the individuals in my neighborhood.

We want the shootings to stop.

We want the violence to stop.

I just want to give you a little bit of perspective of our experience as families in our community.

So our kids have a bus stop two blocks from Aurora.

Every morning we have to make sure the kids stand to one side of the street because the other side of the street is where the Johns Park all night long.

That's where there's condoms, there's human waste, there are Listerine bottles, there are liquor, there are bottles of liquor, there are wipes.

So we have to make sure that the kids are always on the other side.

On the way home from school, unfortunately, the kids have started to play a game.

They recognize the girls are standing on the corners with no clothes on.

So we have, you know, five to 11 year olds who come home after playing this game of what are the girls wearing today?

And so that's kind of dehumanizing those girls as well, right?

And I don't want my kids to be learning that.

Lastly, I just want to say there are several girls that have turned 11 in our neighborhood.

And so we've allowed them to like walk between each other's houses like we want them to do.

We want them to be independent.

But it really struck me when they said that the youngest girl they have found on Aurora as of date was 12. Put that in perspective.

That's a sixth grader.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_68

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Megan Cruz, to be followed by Carol Jo Williams.

SPEAKER_31

Good morning.

I'm Megan Cruz, a resident in the downtown Pike Pine Corridor, ground zero for a 24-7 drug market.

Whatever we're doing to try to turn this around isn't working.

The situation has never been worse for people trapped and dying from drugs on our streets and for those of us whose homes and businesses are in the center of it.

There is no one solution.

It's going to take multiple answers.

One is we deliver care, a seven-day-a-week outreach program for people at risk on the street.

They desperately need more permanent supportive housing to make a difference.

At the same time, we do need tools like SODA to disrupt the status quo and provide consequences that don't currently exist, especially for dealers and fencing operations that have no incentive to leave the area.

This isn't an either-or choice.

It's choose-all.

Whatever social service or legal measures we do use, they require oversight, clear metrics, and accountability to show that they work, or we'll continue spending money and losing ground.

Please help us move forward with multiple options for safety.

SPEAKER_58

Thanks.

Thank you.

Carol Jo Williams, to be followed by Heidi Wilson and then Fiona Wilson.

SPEAKER_05

Hello.

I'm CJ Williams, and...

a 38-year downtown Pike Pine Union resident, 32 years as an owner, six years as a renter.

I'm a senior without a car.

So the bus transportation on Third Avenue is almost used daily.

I'm also a daily morning walker for the last 24 years with a group of ladies, better known as the Thursday Walkers, who have experienced daily stolen goods for sale, defecation, urination on the sidewalks, walking on the streets, drugs, monies exchanged, and addicted poor souls dying on the street in front of us.

We support soda.

Hoping you have the next step starting their activities one block from your perimeters to help the victims of the drug pushers.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Heidi Wilson to be followed by Fiona Wilson and Carlo Alcantara.

SPEAKER_30

Hello.

I have lived in the soap zone, proposed soap zone, since 2008. I'm a social worker, and that was the only neighborhood I could afford to buy a house in.

Since then, I've raised three children in this neighborhood.

I have a son who's seven, a daughter who just turned 11, and my daughter, Fiona, who just turned 14. We live just a few blocks from Aurora and 105th.

And I feel like I'm all for protecting women and the girls on Aurora, but I also have to think about my very vulnerable children who live in this neighborhood, who grow up hearing the gunshots, who hear screams of victims being shot, who know we have neighbors who have bullets in their fences and they babysit at those houses, who can't walk around safely walking our dog without pimps and Rolls Royces coming up and leering at them.

So what about our children?

We need to be protecting our children, and we have to do something to try to save them.

And we shouldn't be forced to have to move out of our neighborhoods in order to live safely.

Okay?

So maybe this isn't a perfect law, but we need to do something to protect our vulnerable children.

SPEAKER_58

Fiona, go ahead.

SPEAKER_72

I'm Fiona Wilson.

I just turned 14 recently, and the night before my 14th birthday, I heard a woman screaming as she was shot three blocks from my house.

I hear frequent gunshots, and I see the girls.

And it is so heartbreaking to think about, because these are girls who could be in high school with me, who could be people that I could be friends with almost, and who are not that much older than me. in a different life, I could be one of those girls.

And I don't want to think about that.

I don't want to imagine even a world where there are women who are being trafficked and taken from their cities, taken from broken homes, and forced to walk the streets and objectify themselves.

I want people to see me as a human being and not as something that they can pay for and buy.

And I want this legislation to protect me and my younger siblings and all of the people who are being victimized.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next, we have Carlo Alcantara to be followed by Elizabeth Helendi.

SPEAKER_43

My name is Carlo.

I'm here representing or on behalf, I guess, of myself, my neighbors in Licton Springs and the Roar Reimagine Coalition.

In our homes, we're living in a state of fear and anxiety.

So I'm here to advocate for what is proving to be an effective component of a multifaceted approach to prevention and deterrence of gun violence and exploitation that's currently plaguing our neighborhood.

On July 17th, the city installed a Jersey barrier on North 101st, effectively changing the street that once permitted through traffic into a cul-de-sac.

in an effort to deter the violence.

Almost one month later, we've seen no gun violence on 101st and have gone from 5 to 10 911 calls per night to a single call since July 17th.

The very press conference that was held to announce this loitering law was held on 101st, a task that would have been impossible without the street reconfiguration.

At the very same time, the press conference occurred...

Children were seen playing on the street outside, able to play next to Aurora Avenue North for the first time ever.

Closing one street is not enough, and we as a community of neighbors and businesses are pleading for more of our neighborhood and non-arterial streets to be closed to deter traffic, to deter the violence.

There's only so much space for this criminal enterprise to operate, and we're seeking to squeeze out the available space that is left.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Elizabeth Helendi.

SPEAKER_17

I'm Elizabeth from Aurora Commons.

We've been on 90th and Aurora since 2011. Our mission is to cultivate community and belonging among our neighbors experiencing poverty and homelessness.

Last year we served 400 unduplicated women, many of whom are in the sex trade and victims of sex trafficking.

We cannot currently keep up with the demand for services.

The SOAP legislation as written unintentionally targets vulnerable women in the sex trade who are often victims of trafficking.

It does not propose additional funding or resources or have a provision for women who may live in a SOAP zone.

We urge you to lean on your subject matter experts in the field of gender-based violence to partner with you to draft amendments to this bill and not undo the last 20 years of research, progress, and advances we've made in the field of gender-based violence.

Target those who are actually perpetuating the violence, not the vulnerable.

With only seven beds in the entire city where we can send women who wish to exit the sex trade, we're putting the cart before the horse.

We need to provide pathways for health and healing first, not increase barriers and further victimize.

Target the Johns, traffickers, and real perpetrators.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

We're now going back into remote commenters.

We're going to start with Eva Bagwandan.

Remember to press star six.

SPEAKER_65

Hello, my name is Ava.

I live in District 5. I'm asking you to vote no on Moore's prostitution loitering law.

I have read and reviewed this bill in detail, and I have a degree in criminology.

I also regularly shop and dine within the proposed soap area, usually as a pedestrian, and experience the violence that everyone is talking about on Aurora firsthand.

If you care about victims, listen to the orgs that have been working to help them.

Listen to the research.

This bill does not address gun violence, drug addiction, or sex trafficking.

All it does is ban people that look like prostitutes and criminalize them for simply existing in the soap area.

This bill will make violence worse, traumatize victims, and encourage pimps to move to other areas.

Innocent people will be arrested and harassed.

Cops will continue to harass and solicit sex workers.

I've literally had it happen to me.

This law does not target johns or pimps.

It's legalizing profiling.

It has loose, empty promises of...

when we know that there are none.

They also have not been funded by the city in any way.

We repealed this law for a reason.

Why are we going back to this failed policy?

SPEAKER_58

Thank you, Eva.

We're next going to Holly Willis.

And then followed by Haley Spencer.

SPEAKER_65

Hi, can you hear me okay?

SPEAKER_58

Yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_65

Awesome.

Good morning, council members.

My name is Hallie Willis.

I'm the policy manager at the Seattle King County Coalition on Homelessness, and I live in District 6, one block off Aurora.

The Coalition on Homelessness advocates for the council to develop good policies to help people who are poor and suffering from addiction and people who want to leave the sex trade.

But reinstating harmful policies like soda and soap is not a good way forward.

These laws will disproportionately punish people who are poor, homeless, and people of color and it will only make it harder for people to heal and live well.

We know what works to address these issues.

First, people need housing.

People need health care, sufficient income, and people need stability.

The Coalition on Homelessness is opposed to soap and soda because banishing people will harm them.

It will not improve public safety, and it will fail again as it failed before.

Please raise new revenue to pay for the housing and services that will actually make a difference.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up is Haley Spencer to be followed by Tanya Moore.

Haley, please press star six.

There you go.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_64

Hi.

Anti-loitering laws are not the answer.

I have a friend who is a transgender woman who used to live a block off of Aurora.

During the time that she lived in that area, she was twice mistaken for a sex worker while walking for groceries in everyday clothing.

She told me one of the times she was wearing jeans and a t-shirt.

If we have anti-loitering laws, a police officer could see her in that situation, make an assumption, and arrest her for loitering.

If that were to happen, There could be orders that prevent her from being within her own neighborhood before even having a trial, having a chance to clear up the situation.

We know that in the past the laws have been enforced in racist, transphobic, horrible, profiling ways.

And it is very upsetting that this is being offered to people as a solution to keep them safe when the solution to gun violence is to ban guns.

This would create really serious repercussions, even for people who are later found innocent and who have not been doing sex work or drugs in the areas.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next, we have Tanya Moore to be followed by Jennifer Ives.

Tanya, please press star six.

Okay, we're going to jump over to Jennifer Ives.

Jennifer, please press star six.

There you go.

SPEAKER_65

Good morning.

My name is Jennifer.

I'm a former Aurora resident and current resident of D3.

Okay, to start with, the vast majority of trafficking is done by family and friends of victims behind closed doors, not by strangers.

Sex trafficking is already illegal.

Gun violence is already illegal.

These laws will not protect victims or sex workers.

Cents are not the ones that will be targeted by these laws.

These laws will infringe on our right to freedom of movement and to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

Fund shelters.

Fund job programs.

Fund social work programs.

Decriminalize sex work.

Fund things that empower people instead of marginalizing them.

Stop fruitlessly trying to punish instead of providing alternatives.

I yield the rest of my time.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

We're going to go back to Tanya Moore.

Tanya.

Can you please press star six?

SPEAKER_65

Hi, my name is Tanya Moore.

I'm a resident of District 5 and my home at North 90th and Aurora is in the proposed soap district.

I'm speaking against the soap legislation.

This is a legislation that is racist, transphobic, and does nothing to stop gender-based violence.

It does nothing but cut off people from housing, jobs, and services and the ability to move through the city and get where they need to be to access services.

It also does nothing for funding.

SPEAKER_66

I find it despicable that Councilmember Moore has not listened to the organizations that work in this area and work with these individuals.

SPEAKER_65

They have asked and repeatedly given comments and not been heard.

If they had been, this legislation would not even have been put forward.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next, we have Michael Toohey to be followed by Julia Buck.

SPEAKER_54

Hello, my name is Michael Tuohy.

I live in District 5. I'm here to urge City Council to vote no against the proposed soap bill.

This bill is bringing this back into focus.

It was repealed for a reason.

This is an archaic bill that emulates vagrancy laws put into form during the Jim Crow era, making it illegal for black people to be in public spaces.

This transcends sex work.

It transcends everything.

This bill does not target me directly as a 41-year-old white male, but it does directly affect all of the people in my life, powerful, brilliant, wonderful people, expressive, social people, that being in public spaces, waving at their neighbors driving by, Engaging and communicating with people on the street makes them a target.

Thank you.

For the police to be able to openly.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_54

Thank you Michael.

SPEAKER_58

We're going now to Julia Buck to be followed by Heather Hurd.

SPEAKER_65

Hello my name is Julia Buck I'm a resident of District 6. These stay-out-of-drug and prostitution area laws didn't enhance public safety when they were in place until 2019, including the time when I lived for two years one block off of Aurora Avenue.

But public safety is really just an excuse to do what you want, which is to put as many people as possible in the jail system and help a city attorney too incompetent to put together probable cause be able to lock people up without a conviction.

Council Member Moore, you claim in your newsletter that the most recent shooting on Aurora is the result of prostitution in the area.

Council Member Wu, you claim in your newsletter that the same shooting, same date, same block, was because of drag racing high schoolers.

That doesn't make any sense.

Those are two very different sets of activity and people.

Anyway, if you'd like to do something about the quiet epidemic of cocaine overdoses here in Seattle, I'd like to propose a soda district in the Green Lake neighborhood on First Avenue Northeast from 53rd to 58th.

But we know that white people doing expensive white people drugs doesn't make white people hysterical.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Thank you, Julia.

Next up, we have Heather Hurd, and then we'll be going back to in-person public commenters.

Heather, go ahead.

Please press star six.

There you go.

SPEAKER_65

Hello.

My name is Heather Heard.

I live off 90th and Nesbitt near Robert Eagle Staff Middle School and Cascadia Elementary School with my kids.

Right now, we can't actually walk in the neighborhood.

And at the corner of 90th and Nesbitt, there's frequent gun battles and an actual chainsaw fight that happened a couple of weeks ago.

These assaults closed the school and put it on lockdown.

Aurora Commons, most of this event actually happens within their parking lot, and they're aware of this.

The city said that the response to Aurora Commons was that they were finding quotes on permanent fencing for the area, as well as organizing volunteers to facilitate crossing guards to shepherd students past the problem areas.

This is against the 1994 Federal Legislation for Violence in Drug-Free Schools Act, and Robert Ebel's staff principal has said that students have been solicited into prostitution in the area.

Someone has to start to protect our kids within this area, so please vote yes on this bill.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you, Heather.

First up for our next set of in-person public commenters, Ariana Riley to be followed by Amber Bergstrom and Star M.

SPEAKER_16

Good morning.

My name is Ariana Riley.

I'm a sex worker myself.

What I've heard from people living along Aurora is that they're concerned about gun violence occurring in their neighborhood.

Many people relate stories of calling police for gun violence and the police refusing to come.

This, to me, is a problem.

We can all agree that nobody wants their home shut up.

We can also all agree that prostitutes themselves are not the ones shooting up homes.

I haven't seen anyone say that.

Also, we can recognize that not all sex workers have pimps.

Yes, even on Aurora.

There's a lot of gun violence that occurs nearby to me in White Center and over in Rainier Beach by the Safeway.

There's no track on 16th and there's no whole stroll on Rainier, yet gunfire is a common sound.

The problems of police not responding to violent crimes even after receiving a large raise and gunfire occurring in areas north of White Center will again not be solved by harassing prostitutes and bans on people waving on Aurora, who everyone admits are not the ones shooting up the neighborhood.

Withdraw this bill.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you, Amber Bergstrom.

SPEAKER_20

Hi, my name is Amber Bergstrom.

I live in Kathy Moore's district, just a few blocks off of Aurora.

I have been volunteering with Greenlight Project, a peer-led mutual aid organization for sex workers since 2019, doing outreach on Aurora Avenue twice a week.

We have been hearing directly from them about the problems they face.

I'm here begging city council to vote no on the prostitution loitering and drug loitering proposals, soap and soda.

These ordinances are going to literally get people killed.

Anyone who votes in favor of them will have blood on their hands.

There's safety in numbers and street-based sex workers watch out for each other.

Violence from pimps, predatory men, and police brutality will escalate if this legislation is approved.

The proposed legislation does absolutely nothing to stop or prevent sex trafficking or gun violence.

It will only make things worse for our participants.

It is deplorable when elected officials write legislation about sex workers without asking for input from the people who will be most impacted.

Nothing about us without us.

Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, and sex worker advocates around the world have all issued statements that decriminalizing sex work is the best way to stop and prevent sex trafficking.

Not a single anti-trafficking organization or organization offering services and support to sex workers has made a statement in favor of this proposal.

Please listen to the community experts who engage with this population.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up is Star M to be followed by Ellie Lectrum and Maz Fahi.

SPEAKER_67

My name is Star.

I am a non-binary sex worker, a human trafficking victim and survivor.

I'm here today to express my rejection on the soda and soap bill.

Passing these bills will do more harm than help.

As an addict in recovery, access to services helped me and has helped me maintain sobriety and stay stable.

There are multiple community services in the soda and soap area, so if anyone gets arrested and released, they can be banned from accessing these services, such as DESC facilities, DSHS, the YWCA, which is in the proposed area.

The soap bill will do more harm than good.

We will have the same nightmare that we had when Backpage was shut down.

Putting that bill into effect will make victims more afraid to come forward if anything happens to them.

On top of that, some of my friends live in hotels in those areas in an apartment, so they will fear to go to the police if anything happens to them.

I've had North Precinct officers sexually assault me for not taking me to jail.

If you pass this bill, blood will be on your hands, Kathy Moore.

And remember, no child wakes up and says they want to be a prostitute or no child wakes up and says they want to be a homeless addict.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Ellie Lectrum, followed by Maz Fahey and Bailey...

I'll figure that one out.

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_14

My name is Elle.

I live and work in District 5 and also do outreach with Greenlight Project.

I gave public comment here last week in opposition to the soap and soda loitering bills, but I'm now asking Council Member Moore, directly as her constituent, to pull the soap bill from consideration entirely.

Not only is it bringing back stop-and-frisk policy that's proven to be ineffective at crime prevention, it's also incredibly discriminatory and will make already marginalized people worse off.

This bill will not prevent sex trafficking.

In fact, trafficking and violence increase along with the isolation which anti-loitering laws promote.

Before the repeal of the loitering law in 2020, workers would walk outside alone for fear of being arrested on charges of, ironically, trafficking.

Currently, many of them walk together to protect each other against violent pimps, clients, and police officers.

There has been a noticeable shift when doing outreach the past couple weeks.

Our participants are terrified.

They fear arrest.

because that could be losing access to housing, domestic violence resources, or losing custody of their children.

Please do the right thing.

Listen to your constituents.

Listen to sex workers.

Fund housing, social services, and domestic violence resources, not racist prostitution and drug loitering laws.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Naz Fahy.

SPEAKER_00

Hello, my name is Maz, and I've been a sex worker for most of my adult life.

And I personally know several workers who have started out as trafficked minors.

No one, civilians or sex workers, wants to see people trafficked or hurt by gun violence.

This bill will not fix either of those problems.

When I experienced violence at the hands of Johns or saw my peers in trouble, I had no way to get them any kind of help because doing so would put us at risk of arrest.

With arrest comes permanent records.

With records comes less chance of getting jobs outside of the sex industry.

If you want people to stop being trafficked or stop doing sex work, you need to give those people resources.

Soap orders and profiling will create a barrier to life-saving resources and lasting change.

Protect our most vulnerable.

Vote no on this bill.

Listen to sex workers.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

We have Bailey Nodio next, followed by Astro Lai.

SPEAKER_48

Good morning.

My name is Bailey Medillo and I'm a young renter in Seattle.

I'm going to tell it straight.

Soap and soda are disastrous, dangerous policy proposals that will and have done more harm than good.

What we need to do as a city is put more resources in community and worker-centered services, not more guns on our street.

To prosecute presence is to criminalize services and collective safety.

Soap and Soda opened the door to continuous surveillance and criminalization, especially when we consider stigmatized profiling on queer and trans youth and youth of color.

Let's ask, who is actually going to be impacted the most by this escalation in criminalization?

These are not solutions.

They are poorly designed band-aids for systemic issues.

And when we question why young people in Seattle no longer in engage in community or occupy third spaces.

Remember this moment as you continue to put more guns in our streets and tell young people less time in community.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Thank you.

Astro Lie to be followed by Julia Be About.

SPEAKER_59

Good morning.

I live off Aurora.

I volunteer with this organization green light project that has been out on the track, providing food supplies and solidarity to street based sex workers twice a week without fail for the past five years.

The women on Aurora are not abstract concepts to us.

They're our friends.

They're our peers.

They're us.

This law doesn't do anything for them except make their lives more dangerous.

I implore those of you who support this bill to actually read it and see what it does, which is arrest the victims that you seem to want to protect and actually talk to people who are in these communities and see what they have to say because we have a lot to say.

So please listen to us.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you, Julia.

Be about next to be followed by Pat Soltis.

SPEAKER_22

As a resident of Third Avenue between Pike and Pine, my neighbors and I have a front row seat to the ongoing fentanyl epidemic.

While most people talk about downtown in pre and post COVID terms, we talk about it in pre and post fentanyl terms.

Recently, I found myself longing for the good old days of organic opioids.

The problems we faced then seem quaint by comparison.

We need multiple to address the new and incredibly complex problem that is fentanyl.

We ask you to continue to expand the funding for the co-lead teams like We Deliver Care, who provide critical, life-giving care to our most vulnerable residents, as well as expand housing and mental health services and access to them.

But we also need to give our police officers new tools.

By some accounts, gangs are now pressing our addicted neighbors into service as dealers and distributors themselves and forbidding them from seeking housing and life-changing services under threats of violence.

It's essential that we interrupt this arrest, release, and return cycle with legislation like the SOTA.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Pat Soltis, to be followed by...

I'll figure that one out.

Sorry.

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_09

I have lived in Greenwood, one block off of Aurora, near 100th since 1986. I used to ride the bus on Aurora.

I used to walk regularly to businesses on Aurora.

That has all changed since the prostitution, drugs, homelessness, and gun violence.

I feel I would be putting my life at risk, so I limit And so I'm limited in where and how I go.

I hear the gunfire almost nightly.

In fact, June 10th at 10 p.m., automatic gunfire was occurring in front of my house as cars were racing down the street.

My neighbor called to ask if I was okay because it was in front of my house.

Later, the police were walking down my street to look for bullets.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Thank you, Pat.

Clerk, I also wanted to note that we've been having public comment for just over an hour, so we'll continue.

But with the numbers, we have to look at, you know, at which point do we continue with the agenda.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

We have Pat.

Good, good, gig route, Rach, Rach, sorry.

SPEAKER_18

Hi, yes, I'm Pat Gergovich.

I've lived in Greenwood for 41 years.

Seattle's not the city anymore that I've known and loved since I've been here since 1974. I avoid Aurora between 85th and 145th.

It's disturbing and it's demoralizing to see the sexual exploitation.

The products of these activities are discarded in public places such as our church parking lot.

Friends that live close to Aurora have told me of the gunfire on their streets.

And to reference a recent news story, car-to-car gunfire was likely a pimp turf war.

My friends fear for their safety.

Where they used to walk to nearby businesses on Aurora, they no longer do so.

They now refuse to take buses on Aurora due to concerns about personal safety.

I ask that the council support council member Kathy Moore's legislation, and I hope that in the future there will be the emergency receiving center that you also spoke about.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next, we're going to go to Dan Cumberland and then followed by Susan Jensen.

SPEAKER_60

Hi there.

I'm a dad of three young kids, eight, six, and four.

We live half a block off of Aurora on 101st Street.

I want to share a glimpse of our neighborhood.

In recent years, our block has become increasingly dangerous.

It's like something out of a movie.

Women stand on the corner blocking traffic day and night, often underage.

Cars race up and down our street, some seeking shortcuts, many a good time.

Pimps and Johns Park in front of my house.

Neighbors have had guns pulled on them.

Others have been assaulted.

Gunshots from the sex trade turf war wake us regularly.

I don't even get out of bed for it anymore.

In the morning, I pick up used condoms and used liquored bottles from my driveway.

I walk the street to see which cars have had their windows shot out.

My neighbor's car was totaled by bullet holes.

When the police came to extract the bullet, they asked which shooting might this have been from because it happens that often.

Weeks ago, our block changed when the street was blocked from Aurora.

It's a simple solution and effective.

Now it's quiet.

It's peaceful.

My kids ride their bikes in the street.

Close more streets.

Protect our neighborhoods.

We all deserve to live in a place where we can walk our streets safely.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Susan Jensen is next to be followed by Shannon Perez Darby.

SPEAKER_69

Hi, thank you.

My name is Sue Jensen.

I'm a resident of Broadview D5.

I live a few blocks from Aurora and I've lived here a long time.

I strongly support the SOTO proposal and urge you to vote yes.

I've been involved in many city planning efforts to try to create better communities.

It's been hard around Broadview, Bitter Lake, especially around Aurora.

And our neighborhoods and our commercial sectors are really failing.

We need more tools at our disposal to keep Aurora clean, safe, and viable.

I believe the large increases in gun violence, traffic accidents, and pedestrian traffic injuries are really primarily attributable to the prostitution, their pimps, and abuse of alcohol and drugs.

And in addition to the very real gun violence that we've heard about today, It's also creating many business failures and storefronts.

It keeps me and many others from using the D-line.

And raise your hand if you agree.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Next up, Shannon Perez-Darby, to be followed by Allison Gercondine.

SPEAKER_70

Hello, my name is Shannon Perez Darby.

I am a survivor of gender-based violence, and I've worked in Seattle for the last 17 years supporting survivors of domestic and sexual violence.

I'm testifying in opposition to the proposed prostitution, loitering, and soap bill.

Bottom line, This legislation will hurt survivors of gender-based violence.

It will criminalize people experiencing violence.

I care deeply about the safety of every member of our community.

Prioritizing safety for some above safety for all is not the answer.

We can do better.

Our anti-violence community spent years working collaboratively with the city of Seattle to overturn the previous law.

While the cities across the nation have been eliminating prostitution-free zones, we are trying to implement them.

We know that people facing violence, we know what they need.

We need support in self-determination and safety.

We need resource.

We need community-based solutions.

Please join me in opposing this law and supporting survivors of gender-based violence.

SPEAKER_33

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up, Allison Jerkoff.

SPEAKER_03

point of order mr chair could we have like respect in our our audience whatever which side people are trying to speak and we have people talking in the audience while we're trying to listen to public comment someone just asked that if we could just have respect uh in the audience please thank you

SPEAKER_73

Good morning.

My name is Allie Jurkovich, and I'm a Seattle resident, a social worker, and an advocate for the anti-violence movement for the past 15 years.

In that time, I worked with survivors of gender-based violence and folks in the sex trades.

I am also currently the board co-chair of the Coalition Ending Gender-Based Violence.

The Coalition recently sent a letter to the Seattle City Council, Mayor Harrell, and the city attorney, Davison, opposing this legislation.

This letter represents over 50 organizations and individuals, and the response from our community is clear.

Not only will the soap and soda zones not keep our communities safer, but they will limit and compromise critical pathways to safety and stability for the individuals that everyone here has been expressing concern for.

Providers and community members advocating for sex workers and human trafficking survivors don't always agree on how to best support individuals, but we do agree on this.

We want to rest our way out of social problems.

for youth in the sex trades today, and I'm here to tell you that creating conditions for their criminalization is not the solution.

I encourage the city council to reconsider this legislation.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

You know, standard public comment is 20 minutes for standard committee meetings.

We're at one hour and 20 minutes approximately.

So if there's no objection from my fellow committee members, we'll extend public comment for another 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_40

My name is Cynthia Maren.

I represent the Thursday Walkers group, who I would like all...

Please speak into the mic, please.

I represent your grandmother, who lives downtown a quarter of a block from Pike.

We are victims in our own neighborhood.

We are full of rage.

that our grandchildren have to attempt to walk in a street of drug dealers and fentanyl clients in order to take a bus on 3rd.

Which one of you can tell me the words to tell the Torres family who is shocked by what they see as they are offered stolen things as they walk to the market?

This is their visual memory.

of Seattle.

We, your grandparents, deserve to be protected.

The elderly in the city no longer can care about saving others.

We are busy trying to protect ourselves.

We need luck each day, every time we go to Walgreens or the light rail.

But luck is not a public safety strategy.

Thank you very much.

I'm voting please to vote for it.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Next up is Carol Farr to be followed by Amarinthia Torres.

Carol Farr.

SPEAKER_51

Give a couple extra names too.

SPEAKER_58

announce the next yeah uh next up would be amaranthia torres and then diane diane dion dion uh carol first sorry anybody carol okay move on all right amaranthia please next and then dion dion will be next

SPEAKER_13

Good morning, council members.

My name is Amaranthia Torres, and I'm the co-executive director of the Coalition Ending Gender-Based Violence.

Our coalition is made up of over 35 community-based organizations who support survivors of sexual assault, trafficking, and domestic violence.

I'm speaking today to share concerns and opposition to the Lordering Law and Soap Bill.

The gender-based violence field, through its support of victims and survivors, and from being a movement of survivors ourselves, deeply understands the ways violence is used to control, coerce, and exploit another person.

We are not naive or cavalier about the harm of gender-based violence and the impact on communities, and we see the challenges and concerns that everyone here is speaking to.

But we believe that gender-based violence deserves solutions commiserate with the complexity of this issue.

This bill is a quick fix that won't actually solve anything.

Survivors deserve better than this.

They deserve robust services to reach out to.

Providers deserve better than this.

We deserve robust funding to better meet the needs of victims and survivors.

We all deserve policies that will help solve the problems, not just short-term fixes.

We urge you to drop the bill and with us, lean on our expertise, help us be part of the solution so that we can actually solve these problems together.

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_58

Next is Dion Dion to be followed by Franklin Gnierman.

SPEAKER_11

Hello, everyone.

My name is Dian Dian.

I live in our neighborhood and work in the ID.

So both soap and the soda bills are very important to me personally.

I will vote no to both because I hope the taxes I pay are used for diverse development of the community to offering sources and social services rather than simply victimize, criminalizing and evicting poor people of color.

I also worked for the Massage Parlor Outreach Project, a group supporting Asian immigrant massage workers in the Great Seattle area for years.

These workers we've long worked with share similar experience with sex workers who will be impacted by the soap bill.

Yes, we are all anti-violence, but how can we do that with more guns and violence?

I heard Asian male friend was arrested just because...

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next up, Franklin Greenman, to be followed by Katie Hurley.

I think the bill is kind of...

SPEAKER_71

misplaced.

First of all, I think you all know you're going to get a legal challenge.

You're going to spend money defending this thing, and you may not be able to defend it.

Second of all, you're going after the wrong product.

You're going after the wrong target.

What we need, you have to remember that both these crimes, drugs and Third Street and prostitution on Aurora Avenue, have sophisticated economic incentives around them.

And those people who have those economic incentives are the ones we should be going after.

The drug distributor, the Johns, those things are illegal.

And it doesn't cost you any...

extra funds to have your police directed at those that are economically incentivizing prostitution and drug use.

And no matter where you put it, it's going to move.

If you push it out of one area, there's so much money made, it'll go where the people are.

So go after the right targets.

Don't waste time with the bad bill.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Thank you.

Katie Hurley, to be followed by Gordon Hill.

SPEAKER_29

My name is Katie Hurley.

I'm special counsel for criminal practice and policy at the King County Department of Public Defense.

And I'm here today to oppose the proposed revival of stay out of area of drug orders.

As someone who has represented indigent clients for years, this law is not going to help anyone except to allow the downtown shoppers and retailers to avoid the suffering in our community.

The city's prosecutor claims that this legislation is an exit ramp for people in the throes of addiction.

In reality, this so-called exit ramp is a bridge to nowhere except continued homelessness and lack of support.

If enacted, this law will either subject people to a harmful conviction and up to a year in jail for innocent behavior, walking down the street.

Instead of suffering outside of Nordstrom, people will be suffering outside the downtown library.

Enacting this law will be costly.

to arrest people who are engaging in innocent behavior.

Prosecutors, defense attorneys, this money should be spent for treatment and housing.

I urge you to vote no on this wasteful, harmful, and ineffective effort to banish our community members.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Gordon Hill, to be followed by Ben Pligman.

Pligman, sorry.

SPEAKER_46

Morning, council members.

I'm Gordon Hill.

I'm the deputy director of the King County Department of Public Defense, and I'm here to oppose Council Bill 120836, the SOAP ordinance.

We know that this ordinance will fail.

It's failed before.

It's failed across the nation.

Studies show it fails.

We know that this ordinance will make lives for those engaged in sex work more dangerous.

It'll push them into the shadows.

It will make them more likely to become the victims of the violence of customers, of pimps, of the trade that they work in.

When we came here this morning, Councilmember Kettle had a snap for public safety.

What we seem to have forgotten is that those who engaged in the sex trade are a member of our community, and their safety should be important to us.

We should listen to what they need.

They need treatment they need shelter they need supportive services they need affordable housing they need economic support they are part of this community by turning them into something to be chased from our streets does that solve a problem it worsens a problem thank you uh ben followed by colin madden

SPEAKER_01

Hi, my name is Ben.

I am a retail manager at a high-end fashion store.

It's nestled between 2nd and 3rd Avenue on Pine Street.

So I am intimate with them every day.

I have to deal with the people in the street.

I understand why people are upset, but that doesn't change the fact that soda is ineffective.

It's been proven to not help the situation.

It targets the most vulnerable people.

I can't understand how it could even be considered at this point, as has been pointed out by people more eloquent and well-researched than me.

We're just putting people in prison.

It's not a permanent solution.

I'm also concerned because the things that I've seen that do work, like community programs such as We Deliver Care, the WDC, are facing having their funding cut this October.

They already don't have the resources they need to do their job.

I think we need to pivot off of these proven failed policies and go to things that actually work.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Thank you.

Colin Madden to be followed by Eric Nicholson.

SPEAKER_34

Hi there.

My name is Colin Madden.

I live in D7, born and raised here.

Seattle is not the city that I grew up in in kind of all the worst ways.

I'm a property manager in downtown Seattle.

One of the properties we manage is a hotel that's teetering on bankruptcy as a result of bankruptcy.

criminality in the neighborhood.

I wanted to just say, I know you're hearing from a vocal minority here today.

I think I speak for the vast majority of Seattle residents that are in favor of soda and soap and other similar anti-vagrancy and anti-loitering laws.

SPEAKER_58

Thank you.

Eric Nicholson, to be followed by Kristen O'Donnell.

SPEAKER_02

Hello, my name is Eric.

I'm a property manager here in Seattle.

I manage a property down on Pike Pine, also in the 3rd Street area.

I'm here to express my strong support for the SOTA legislation.

In the neighborhood, particularly on 3rd Avenue, it's been drastically impacted by the rampant drug use.

It has made the area unsafe and challenging to manage, and we're constantly dealing with people breaking into our building, tenant spaces, tenant leaving, starting fires in the alleyway and also in our basement.

We struggle to leasing in the spaces.

All of our tenants have left through the constant drug activity.

Additionally, our vendors are hesitant to come down to the property because they are afraid to step on a needle.

They're afraid to deal with the drug issues.

And so, last but not least, I had a contractor who died from complications after stepping on a needle around our building.

This legislation is a crucial step towards reclaiming these troubled areas.

By targeting drug activity directly, it will help make our streets safer and more welcoming for residents and businesses alike.

Now, it's time for a scaled act.

We all witnessed the impact of drug use daily, discard needles, the suffering of individuals for fentanyl use, heroin use, and the soda legislation represents a critical step towards addressing these issues and transforming Third Avenue, Pike, Pine into a cleaner, safer, and more inviting area.

SPEAKER_58

It is...

We have Kristen O'Donnell to be followed by Peter Orr.

SPEAKER_38

All right.

I'm representing the, Christine O'Donnell, and I'm representing the leadership team of the Yesler Terrace Community Council.

We're gonna talk about the soda area.

Well, the soap area too.

It didn't work.

It caused, it doesn't stop it, it moves it.

And...

20 years ago, it moved it right into our neighborhood.

We were it for two years, surrounded by soap areas.

It was not nice.

We were down at the city council a bunch.

And we are absolutely, this shouldn't pass, but if it does, we're absolutely horrified that the north boundary of the International District soda is just a quarter of a block into our neighborhood.

The north boundary needs to move north to at least Jefferson if you're going to do this.

And I hope to heck you don't because we're probably the next stop.

We've got a bus stop.

We've got an intersection and we've even got a mini mart.

Don't do this.

And if you do, please move the boundary north.

Thank you.

It won't stop it.

It'll move it.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_50

Peter Orr, to be followed by John Scholes.

Council members, thank you for considering the SOAP legislation with a yes vote, especially Council Member Moore for representing me well by proposing it and collaborating with survivors.

Having lived near 100th and Aurora for 14 years, I can testify that the drug and prostitution-fueled violence over turf there has never been worse.

I wake weekly to gunfire and car chases.

As an Airbnb host, I'm concerned for the safety of my guests...

and their potential for poor reviews, my clients' lives and my legitimate tax-generating business are at risk here.

But more than this, I'm deeply disturbed for the safety of my nine- and seven-year-old kids.

Something needs to change when they're walking to the school bus past fresh bullet brass the size of their finger, not to mention piles of condoms.

Something needs to change when camping in our backyard feels unsafe and when even the daytime sound of pneumatic construction tools in our growing neighborhood makes us think to hit the floor.

Rampant...

here but it leads beyond violence it subverts an egalitarian society but broad by broadcasting a message that girls are a product when in fact they are priceless we must enact and enforce consequences for renting them thank you uh next up is john skulls

SPEAKER_49

Good morning, council members.

I'm John Scholes here on behalf of the Downtown Seattle Association.

Seattle's on pace this year to have 1,000 shootings.

In the first six months of this year, we've had more homicides in our city than all of 2019. In downtown Seattle, we had over 100% increase in 2023 in overdose calls to EMS.

Seattle, we have a problem.

And the current efforts and approaches While they may be necessary, they're not sufficient.

And I can tell you the folks who live and work and own properties downtown are well aware of the suffering.

They see it every day.

They deal with it.

We all see it.

They're well aware of the suffering.

And they're well aware of the crime.

The city auditor last month reported to you that the areas in our city with the highest concentration of drug use are also the areas with the highest concentration of crime.

The neighborhood is asking for a restraining order against this daily abuse and for you to address this suffering.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

Thank you very much.

I really appreciate everybody speaking at this public comment period.

As I said in the beginning, I think it's important for everybody to hear each side's voices, and I think that was accomplished today.

We had a great turnout and great amount of public commenters.

We had 167 total sign up.

AGAIN, I WANT TO THANK YOU, BUT ALSO IMPORTANT AS PART OF THIS PROCESS IS TO HEAR FROM THE PRESENTATIONS, THE PRESENTERS OF THE THING, AND TO HAVE THIS DIALOGUE CONTINUE.

SO WE'LL INVITE NOW, WE'LL NOW MOVE ON TO OUR FIRST ITEM OF BUSINESS.

WILL THE CLERK PLEASE READ ITEM ONE INTO THE RECORD?

SPEAKER_58

Council Bill 120835, an ordinance relating to state out of drug area soda zones, creating the ability to issue written orders to criminal defendants describing conditions of their pretrial release or post-conviction conditions of sentence, creating soda zones and providing for both the issuance of court orders relating to those zones and administration of those zones.

creating the gross misdemeanor of violating a soda order and adding a new Chapter 12A.21 to the Seattle Municipal Code.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

I also wanted to note that we will have a second public safety committee, as is tradition, on September 10th, and then based on that, potentially going to full council on September 17th.

Thank you.

I just want to put that out.

Now I wanted to welcome City Attorney Davison, but also Council staff member Ms. Gorman, and also Lieutenant Mahaffey.

Thank you very much for joining us.

Over to you.

SPEAKER_21

Good morning council members and thank you for having us.

It's a pleasure to be here and to have listened to a public comment and to hear from our constituents and people that are living in our city.

I'm joined here today to talk about soda legislation and to be in support of Council Member Moore for the soap legislation.

SPEAKER_51

Yes, thank you.

We'll get the mic.

Actually, Ms. Gorman, a little introduction from central staff first.

I think that's lined up for the slide deck.

SPEAKER_10

I was going to send it to her.

SPEAKER_51

Okay.

Please send it to Ms. Gorman.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_10

Good morning, Chair Kettle and committee members.

SPEAKER_51

Mike, please.

SPEAKER_10

Sorry.

Good morning, Chair Kettle and committee members and Gorman Council Central staff.

I have a prepared overview of the bill that will take less than five minutes of committee time.

Okay.

Open to questions after that, open to questions as I am reading this into the record, if anything is unclear.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

SPEAKER_10

Council Bill 120835 would establish two stay-out-of-drug area zones, we call these SOTA zones, defining them as geographically circumscribed areas within which a high degree of illegal drug activity is taking place.

These zones would be in downtown Seattle and in the International District, and other presenters will go into detail about them.

The bill would also operationalize those soda zones by creating the authority for Seattle Municipal Court judges to issue soda orders.

A soda order is like a restraining order from a place instead of a person, and it is very limited.

You can only get a soda order from being charged with or committing a crime in a soda zone, and you can only be restrained from a soda zone.

The bill would also create a new gross misdemeanor crime in the Seattle Municipal Code Criminal Code for violating a soda order.

This means that someone who has received a soda order from a judge and knowingly violates it by going into the soda zone could be charged with a new crime.

That charge would be in addition to any criminal charges associated with getting the soda order in the first place.

SodaZones are considered a law enforcement tool.

They are meant to improve public safety and public order and to help restore discrete areas where concentrated drug activity has had significant negative effects on law-abiding people and businesses.

Some of these effects could be reduced foot traffic and therefore reduced revenue to a business, property damage committed by someone under the influence of drugs, or acts of violence that are inherent to the illegal drug business.

The idea of SOTA zones is to keep people away from these specific areas who are a risk to their own safety or to other people's safety and or who have contributed to criminality in the area.

And I should emphasize anyone kept away under this bill would be kept away only under the order of a Seattle Municipal Court judge.

For someone to get a soda order under this bill, there are specific criteria that would have to be met.

First, that individual would need to commit a crime or be charged with a crime within a soda zone.

And that crime would have to be one of two things.

It could be a misdemeanor or gross misdemeanor violation of the Uniform Controlled Substances Act.

That is a drug crime.

or it could be, and I'm going to read specific bill language here, assault, harassment, theft, criminal trespass, property destruction, or unlawful use or possession of weapons in which the court finds a nexus between the offense and the illegal drug activity.

For those non-drug-related crimes, the bill would require that the judges evaluate the fact pattern and make a decision about whether the crime was drug-related prior to issuing the soda order.

The judge would have to make articulable findings, which means to provide their reasoning if they believe the crime was drug-related.

And it's also important to note that whether or not a soda order would be issued is always at a judge's discretion.

The soda order would be in effect for up to two years, with its duration also at the judge's discretion.

During the time that it is in effect, if it can be proven again in Seattle Municipal Court that the individual knowingly entered the soda zone, the prosecutor can charge that individual with a gross misdemeanor, as I mentioned earlier.

A judge could issue a SOTA order either at the conviction phase or the charging phase when an individual is still presumed innocent of the alleged crime.

But any judge doing so would be bound by existing Washington court rules, and the memo that you all have goes into some detail about that.

And the bill requires that any SOTA order issued would terminate if the charge was dismissed.

The memo references potential costs associated with implementing soda zones, but it is not possible to provide those cost estimates at this time.

There are reporting requirements in the bill, which would allow for the assessment of outcomes and the monitoring of any potentially disparate enforcement.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you very much, Ms. Gorman, for that summary.

Your staff memo as well.

Again, welcome to City Attorney Davison and the blazer threw me off, not Mr. Mahaffey, but Assistant Chief Mahaffey from Seattle Police Department.

Welcome to you.

SPEAKER_47

Thank you, Council Member.

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_51

Over to you.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you.

Good morning.

SPEAKER_18

We'll be on.

SPEAKER_21

That's better.

Okay, good morning.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you very much.

Let's rotate over here.

SPEAKER_21

You got the slides?

Okay.

Thank you for having me.

Thank you for making time for this legislation to talk about the stay out of drug area legislation.

Thank you, Ann, for that summary prior to that.

You can go to the next slide, please, Brent.

As mentioned, the legislative intent for the stay out of drug area, in my opinion, is to be a disruption to establish drug markets in our city in the two proposed zones that I have offered to you, council members.

These orders, as Ann has stated, are available in a pretrial situation and post-conviction.

These types of legislative orders Orders are available in other municipalities in our state.

They are used to disrupt known drug markets.

That's why we're proposing that here for Seattle, again, as we have talked about, the intent is to protect public places, to make our public spaces available and safer and accessible for everyone.

Next slide, please.

Prior to 2010, Seattle Municipal Court did issue soda orders.

Those were done just on a case-by-case basis, not through legislation that is proposed today.

Those areas were large and difficult to enforce.

And today we have brought to you a carefully crafted area, two areas that we've proposed, deliberate effort to exclude social services within those zones.

These are again intended for a main impetus is to disrupt the known criminal activity in the drug market in these established areas that have just taken a hold of our neighborhoods.

These are neighborhood protection measures that we are looking to make those neighborhoods safer and more accessible for everybody.

And as Dan had said, these are enforceable, legally sufficient with conditions that are provided to the defendant like all judicial orders.

They are at the discretion of the judge.

They must follow Court Rule 3.2, and that's the next slide.

You can go into that.

There is a presumption of release that is strong there for any pretrial soda order, so that would be done on an individual analysis under the court rule 3.2.

Anything post-conviction is an indifferent standard.

The drugs, the crimes that are listed here, as Anne went through, are the predicators for that soda order.

Again, this would allow SPD the ability to lawfully contact recidivist offenders that are in these known drug markets, again, with the goal to protect our neighborhoods and protect our public places.

Next slide.

I want to just pause and make sure that everyone can understand why we are bringing this.

We've had a legal landscape change with state law.

All drug cases were at the felony level that would be handled at county prosecutor level, not city attorney's office.

So with the state law change, all of the drug cases that are now coming in are now moved downward to the misdemeanor level, which is at my level.

They've not been there ever before.

So the structure and the system that was built out to handle drug cases was at the felony level.

including everything thereafter from any, after post-referral, post-conviction, all of that is built out at the felony level.

We are now trying to, we need to build that system at the misdemeanor level because of that state law legal landscape change.

You could go on to the next slide.

Prior to Blake, which was that pivotal case for that change, we are now needing to look at how can we be responsive again to the criminal activity that is associated with drug use in our city when that change has been from the felony level to the misdemeanor level.

We have to be creative in how we provide that with the known number of limited resources we do have, both from our law enforcement partners and then with our service provider partners.

This is not the end-all, be-all.

This is not the one solution that will make sure every neighborhood is safe, but it is necessary.

Again, as the state law changed from the felony to misdemeanor, this is part of the system build-out and the structure that we need, the framework that we need to be responsive to neighborhoods THIS IS THE START OF IT, AND WE HAVE TO CONTINUE TO BUILD OUT IT, BUT WE NEED TO DO THIS FIRST STEP, IN MY OPINION.

YOU CAN GO ON TO THE NEXT ONE.

THESE ARE THE PROPOSED TWO SODA ZONE LOCATIONS.

AGAIN, THEY ARE CAREFULLY CRAFTED.

THEY MAKE UP ONE QUARTER OF 1% OF OUR 83 SQUARE MILES OF OUR CITY.

THAT IS THE LIMITATION OF THESE TWO ZONES THAT ARE PROPOSED.

ONE QUARTER OF 1% OF THE 83 SQUARE MILES.

These are very distinctive areas we have focused on, again, to exclude social services, to designate the areas that we all know, we all sense when we walk through, when we observe with our own eyes, with our own ears, and we know that this is the known to establish drug markets of our city.

These are the top two.

This is where we need to be focused to save these neighborhoods and protect those public places.

You can go to the next slide.

Again, these are separated out so you can see the downtown soda that's proposed and the international district soda that is proposed.

And the one in downtown, it specifically excludes an area that is a highly concentrated location of social services that is purposely excluded from the boundary zone.

Again, we do anticipate that this will make some disruption.

That's the purpose of it.

There will be some displacement, but again, it's not to stop moving.

We should not...

go into paralysis and just think that the solution is to not do anything.

This is providing additional mechanisms so that we can improve public safety.

It is one part of the equation.

It is not all of it, but it is certainly a necessary part in my opinion.

You can go to the next slide.

Our areas are based on data.

They are not just from our observations, but they are based on data.

This is from our referrals that we are getting related to drug cases.

And you can see by the intensity of the heat map, these are why these two locations are what I'm proposing to you.

The Soda Zone, they're to the left, and the International District 1, they're on the right.

You can see the high concentration of those referrals that we are getting, and then the associated criminal activity around that.

You can go to the next slide, please.

That would conclude my time.

Thanks, I didn't know we were already through.

And we can move on to questions.

But again, I just want to emphasize is one quarter of 1% of the 83 square miles.

This is the least restrictive that we can do.

This is not asking for in custody for to have the soda zones.

We are saying we need to be able to have a message that says we want to protect our neighborhoods.

We need to make our public spaces safer.

And one way is to identify and call out that this is happening in these locations.

the increase in drug activity that we have heard from today, and the associated crime.

We are needing to be responsive for business, for residents, for workers and visitors, all of them at the same time.

This is one piece of the puzzle.

It won't be the complete crime prevention that everyone might want, but I still think it is important and valuable and will aid in the improvement to public safety of these areas.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

Thank you.

Assistant Chief, did you have anything to add before I go to questions?

I'm giving my Vice Chair a heads up because he'll get the first question.

I'm using this as an opportunity for him to get ready.

SPEAKER_47

I understand.

I don't have anything further at this point, though.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

All right.

Thank you.

Okay, Vice Chair, any questions?

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you, City Attorney Davidson, Assistant Chief Nelson, and Ms. Gorman from Central Staff for your really insightful presentation and overview of the challenges that we're confronting and faced with today in this initial conversation.

I have a few questions, I guess.

With respect to the PowerPoint presentation, City Attorney Davids, if you wouldn't mind going back to slide two, please.

That kind of overview slide that lists the various jurisdictions.

So as I understand it, please correct me if anything I'm saying is off or incorrect in any way, but as I understand it, These soda order legislation across various jurisdictions, it's specifically authorized by state law.

So localities, municipalities, including Seattle, are free to adopt soda orders.

legislation or not as they so choose and so this right here in slide two that is a list of jurisdictions that currently currently have some form of soda order legislation is that is that correct and and 2018 is that the lat with respect to the city of monroe is that the last city to adopt soda order legislation from my knowledge yes okay okay um Thank you and then.

Onto the heat map slide 9 if you will.

So this is a really good slide.

Really appreciate.

The thought that went into this in terms of the data-informed approach and the heat maps, the hot spots, literally see it on a map.

Just curious to better understand.

Take, for example, the ID soda.

So the heat map covers that blob there.

That's presumably like the hot spot.

That blob there covers about half of the proposed soda area for the ID.

And I'm just curious to kind of better understand the thinking behind why some of those surrounding areas were included, even though it's not necessarily captured or triggered by the known hot spots.

SPEAKER_21

Is that like a buffer zone?

Yes.

Well, some of our decisions are just topography to make it more so it isn't just a jagged edge and complicated to apply.

So some of that was our starting point just with the way the roadways are, again, the topography of the landscape, et cetera.

That was one thing.

Again, social services was another aspect to make sure that we're making them carefully crafted to make them small enough to be effective but not big enough that they're unwieldy.

SPEAKER_24

Got it.

Thank you.

Final question for now, moving on to the final slide here, slide 11. And basically the old soda zones prior to 2010. You aptly pointed out, City Attorney Davidson, that these were large and difficult to enforce.

And as you can see here, unlike the, like you said, one quarter of one percent of 84 square miles or something of what the current proposal is, this is like...

Just ballparking it, that looks about to be half of the city's landmass.

And so I can definitely see how that might be large and difficult to enforce and unwieldy.

But also really curious to understand the efficacy in terms of what these were.

Like, what was our city's crime data, overdose data, things like that, when these old soda zones were in place?

SPEAKER_21

I don't know that data from the past, but I know that that looks like a substantial amount.

It's about 40 percent, so you were right on that it was a large amount of area.

And when we're looking at the number of officers that we do have, again, where they need to be responsive is lots of places.

So we're wanting to make sure that when they are looking at this type of an issue, it is a designated area that is responsible.

identifiable easily, again with the topography, again with the social services.

It's small enough to be applied by them in a way that is helpful in a strategic way, not something that is such a large place that it's actually ineffective for them.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you.

And I'd actually be really curious to better understand and get clarity on that last point.

So in terms of what the numbers look like when this was in place.

So if Ms. Gorman could kindly work with you in your office or whoever, I don't know, and share that out, I would be curious to better understand that.

Thank you.

No further questions or comments at this point, Mr. Chair.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

THANK YOU, VICE CHAIR.

YOU KNOW, I ALSO AM REMISS BECAUSE I DID NOT NOTE THAT COUNCILMEMBER RIVERA JOINED US AT THE START OF YOUR PRESENTATION, SO I'D JUST LIKE TO NOTE AND WELCOME, AS I SAY ALWAYS, OTHER COUNCILMEMBERS NOT ON THE COMMITTEE ARE ALWAYS WELCOME, AND I'M HAPPY TO MAKE THIS A SELECT COMMITTEE IF THEY WANT TO.

SO WELCOME, AND I'M NOT SEEING ANY INITIAL QUESTIONS FROM THE COMMITTEE MEMBERS, SO MAYBE I'LL GO TO YOU, COUNCILMEMBER RIVERA.

SPEAKER_08

THANK YOU.

Thank you, Chair.

I just have a couple quick questions.

Taking up the point that part of the point Council Member Saka is making, talking about in terms of enforcement.

I do, I have noted in these particular soda areas when I'm, I'm downtown a lot in both of these areas actually.

And I do note that there are police and there has been emphasis in these areas as is.

So I do see police there.

And so In terms of enforcement, would that allow for enforcement of these particular soda areas?

Because if we can't enforce, it makes it difficult, obviously, to have this.

So do you have any information about, on the enforcement side, how the department is going to be ruling out enforcement and whether that emphasis helps?

And is that part of, like, the full package.

I guess what I'm getting to is I imagine you all are working with mayor's office and SPD talking about enforcement, and I know there's emphasis officers there currently.

So is it envisioned that these folks would help on the enforcement side?

SPEAKER_47

Yeah, I would say we have a policy related to enforcing soda zones, but that's well over a decade old, so that would have to be revised.

based on whether this legislation passed or not to then give direction to our officers on how that enforcement would work.

SPEAKER_08

Great.

So it's something that you are going to be working with SPD, well, your SPD and the mayor's office on.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Terrific.

Thank you.

And like I said, I do see officers currently there because I know these are areas that are currently areas of emphasis for the city.

So hopefully that means that we'll be able to enforce that.

seeing the officers there is helpful.

And then the other question I have deals with just in general, how will you measure, in terms of good governance, as Councilmember Kettle likes to say, and in terms of how will we measure whether this is working and that it is helpful?

As we if this does get past as we move forward What are the the steps or the metrics or you know?

I don't know a lot about this particular area, but how will we measure if it's working and In order to be able to assess whether we should continue or we should expand it etc I imagine you've given some thought to that as well as you were crafting this I

SPEAKER_21

Yes, and thank you, Councilmember Rivera, again, for being here.

I appreciate that.

We have built into the legislation to make sure there is a way to track that data.

That would be shared from my office, also with SPD.

Again, to me, I think it's important that we have the collaborative approach that we seem to all talk about.

That is making sure we are responsive together, because it is all of us together to be responsive to improve public safety.

And so we would be looking at the number of referrals.

I think it's paired, as Council Member Saka said, with the number of overdoses.

That's a key part.

And also the revival of the economic activity in the area.

And then it would be what you would hear from your constituents, right?

And what I would hear from them, which is we see a difference.

We are noticing that we are able to come in these spaces where we felt fearful before.

We were threatened before, et cetera.

All these things, we had deaths before.

All of that should be shown to impact the associated criminal activity around the public drug use.

SPEAKER_08

Thank you for raising that because I do hear from constituents who really avoid coming downtown.

Because of the activity that's happening downtown and I know that's difficult and I also hear from small businesses who are also being impacted so really good to hear that you will be Measuring that and then of course, there's always the what we hear from constituents including the small businesses.

So thank you Thank you chair for the opportunity I know I don't sit on this committee but it's really important to be engaged on this topic all topics related to public safety and Because I know that's something that my constituents very much care about in the D4.

And I appreciate the opportunity to come and be able to ask questions.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Definitely.

Thank you, Council Member Rivera.

You know, one of the points I mentioned earlier about the communications that we have here in public comment, but also in community, in my office and our offices and locations.

So there's a lot of that which is going on on important topics like soda.

But there's also communications and meetings and discussions and the like with SPD, the mayor's office, the city attorney's office, different parts of the legislative branch.

And, you know, I've spoken to Chief Rohr on this topic.

And I note in Ms. Gorman's memo that the department, SPD, would instead endorse a more holistic means of evaluating the impact of a new soda zone that took into account foot traffic, business activity, and perceptions of residents, visitors, and merchants, as well as those law enforcement stakeholders and the various community groups who are frustrated by current conditions in the proposed soda zones.

I THINK THAT'S AN IMPORTANT POINT TO HAVE A, BECAUSE I RECOGNIZE THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT DATA SETS AND THEY NEED TO BE ACCOUNTED FOR, BOTH ON THE MORE TRADITIONAL PUBLIC SAFETY SIDE IN TERMS OF LIKE THE NINE ORDINANCES THAT FALL UNDER MY COMMUNITY, BUT THEN ALSO THE SERVICE PROVIDERS AND THE LIKE.

I think this note here, Ms. Gorman, really captures that.

And Assistant Chief Mahaffey, can you speak to that point that was observed and basically echoes my conversations with members of the Seattle Police Department?

SPEAKER_47

I think you're correct.

I think we're always evaluating our strategies and how they're working.

And I think we do that in conjunction, not only looking at our own internal data, but also in conversations that happen at the precinct level with constituents in those areas about how the strategies that we are deploying are actually working.

Are they effective and are they having the intended impact?

And we're always, as you know, constantly evaluating how we're doing internally.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

And also, to stay with the police department, I know with my District 7 hat on that residents in different parts of District 7, Belltown, for example, which is another smaller area but just as impacted, they know who the drug dealers are and they've been communicating these pieces to the West Precinct.

So the West Precinct leadership team knows.

Is there a good coordination between the precinct, basically the captains, and then the headquarters in terms of how to make adjustments, what can we do and what's needed to address the issues because it's quite stark when you talk to the residents.

SPEAKER_47

It is.

It's a complex problem.

It's been going on for years I guess at various degrees but I would say internally I think Coordination-wise, I think it's some of the best that I have seen in my time in the department.

As you know, we have the monthly CSTAT meeting.

There are biweekly meetings where we review violent crime, drug activities throughout the city to include West Precinct and downtown neighbors.

So I think we're certainly on top of those issues and addressing them as they come up.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

City Attorney Davidson, one of the things with our strategic framework plan as we look to tackle our public safety challenges throughout the city and in basically the permissive environment that underlines everything, we have our different pillars.

And one important pillar is pillar six, working with our county and state partners.

And this is important and interesting in the sense that we just had a discussion on the jails and the correctional facility, and we have to have these kind of conversations.

But your briefing highlights, too, this idea that we need to have a handoff from the King County Prosecutor's Office and the city attorney's office in terms of how Blake has basically shifted from the state to the local municipalities, the cities, the city of Seattle.

I don't think the state legislature and the governor, I don't think really has done the follow-up on this.

And I think we're going to end up having to put that demand signal to the county and the state to say, hey, we need a pass down.

We need a transition.

We need support in this transition and guidance and help and all the above.

And I highlight that we should be working together, even still, despite Blake, with the King County, because as noted again in the memo, like in the 06-09 period, when the city attorney's office was working with the King County prosecutor's office, and a similar act at that time period that there was a total of 1,310 cases filed.

You know, 208 cases, defendants opted to be charged in the felony, 1,082 decided to abide by the SOTA order.

And so...

it goes further to say in 83% of the soda cases, defendants did not violate their orders and 58% of them defendants did not commit another attempted, um, basically drug act in terms of that, what the act was called at that time.

And it shows that, you know, partnership, this goes to pillar six, working with the County that, you know, having a partnership with the County, um, on this in terms of a transition and not have a, you know, hands off approach.

We have to engage.

So, This is another area that we can engage with our King County Council counterparts, but also the executive, the mayor's office and SBD can be working with, you know, executive Constantine, you know, Sheriff Colton Dell and the like.

And I was just wondering if you can speak to this period of cooperation and what we can do now working in a, you know, in a one Seattle way working with the county.

SPEAKER_21

I have a very good working relationship with King County Prosecutor Lisa Mannion and our offices meet on a regular basis around the High Utilizer Initiative.

We continue that on a weekly basis.

So it is an area.

We also have a shared regional domestic violence firearms unit that is responsive for a lot of gun violence response that we have for community.

So we continue to do that.

We look for additional ways we can support because we do know that our line level staff and prosecutors are working together on many cases that plague our area.

And crime does not take a break.

It does not take a vacation.

So they work, we work, because we are needing to be responsive to when criminal activity occurs.

We are here to make neighborhoods and public spaces and our community as a whole safer.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

I note that Council of Presidents would like to ask a question.

SPEAKER_19

Thank you very much.

First of all, I want to thank you, City Attorney Davison, for bringing this forward and working so closely with Chair Kettle on this legislation.

It's been a group effort, and thank you very much for also participating in this presentation.

Interim Chief Rahr say that we have got to interrupt the market that supports the illegal activity going on downtown and elsewhere in the city.

And we also, in the Governance Accountability and Economic Development Committee, heard the results of a report from the auditor called Addressing Places in Seattle Where Overdoses and Crime Are Concentrated in Evidence-Based Approach.

and the first three or so recommendations are clustered in a section that says, use a research-informed methodology for place-based problem solving.

And in my mind, this legislation and the SOAP legislation Can't get more place-based than that, very defined areas.

So to me, this is an attempt to target our limited resources, limited in terms of officer staffing, and also limited in terms of judges, et cetera.

Target our limited resources where they will make the most difference.

So, one of the goals, according to the central staff—thank you, Anne Gorman—is to disrupt a crime hotspot in order to help restore public order, improve public safety and quality of life for area residents, invite lawful behavior, and foster lawful economic activity.

Now, we didn't get to all the public commenters.

There were a lot of folks on this side of the room that I recognize from speaking on issues of downtown before.

I have a question about this notion.

Sodas were in place before downtown.

And then they were not.

I understand that there was a program called NCI.

I'm trying to find more information about that.

But they were described to me as a method to keep people from prolonged trials.

Because they are a pretrial order, can you speak more about how, in fact, they allow for...

Corrective behavior that does not prolong the interaction with courts, jails, etc.?

SPEAKER_21

As I said earlier, it is based on an individual analysis on a case-by-case basis by a judge.

And so that determination would be ruled by Court Rule 3.2, which is the presumption of release.

And so it would have to be shown that this order needs to be in place, and that would be at the determination of the individual judge after analysis of that case.

Again, it is one of the least restrictive ways because it is just saying you can't go within this specific area as opposed to taking somebody into custody.

So it is a way to allow a balancing of this, to balance the need to, again, protect neighborhoods.

Our international district is one that I really do think about a lot when we're talking about this topic.

We heard a lot from some of our elder neighbors here today.

This balances that.

We're trying to make those neighborhoods safer for people to be there and restrict the movement of someone who has been in that space just from that one space instead of other ways.

SPEAKER_19

So you said instead of custody, correct?

SPEAKER_21

This is a lesser restrictive thing than custody time, yes.

SPEAKER_19

I think that is important for us to emphasize.

Do you have any other questions?

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_51

No, I have no questions.

I'm looking to transition to item agenda number two.

Do you have any further questions here?

SPEAKER_19

They can be combined later.

SPEAKER_51

Okay, combined later.

Thank you very much.

We're going to start to transition to agenda number two, but I did want to say again, thank you for speaking to the stay out of drug area legislation and thank you for presenting it to the city council.

And highlighting my point about pillar six of the strategic framework in terms of working as a one Seattle with the county and the state, this also highlights the elements regarding our criminal justice system.

This came up in the jail discussion, but it also shows that this is giving discretion to the judges and something that needs to be understood as part of the overall effort.

So this goes to the greater criminal justice discussions that we have.

So thank you very much.

With that said, we will now move on to the second item of business.

Will clerk please read item two into the record?

SPEAKER_58

Council Bill 120836, an ordinance relating to prostitution, creating the crimes of prostitution, loitering, and promoting loitering for the purpose of prostitution, establishing policies governing arrests for prostitution and prostitution loitering.

creating stay out of prostitution, area of prostitution, soap zones, and providing for both the issuance of court orders relating to those zones and administration of those zones, creating the gross misdemeanor of violating a soap order and adding new sections 12A.10.010, 12A.10.030, and 12A.10.010.

and a new Chapter 12A.11 to the Seattle Municipal Code.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you, Clerk, and thank you, Councilmember Moore.

You are now recognized to speak to your bill.

Thank you for...

to address it.

MS.

SPEAKER_39

All right.

Thank you very much, Chair Kettle.

And thank you for the opportunity to present on the commercial sexual exploitation legislation before the committee today.

This legislation seeks to disrupt the violent criminal enterprise of the commercial sex trade by specifically focusing enforcement efforts on the buyers, who are the johns, and the promoters, who are the pimps.

while emphasizing diversion to social services, safe houses, and treatment for the sellers, mostly women and girls.

We heard compelling testimony this morning from many of the neighbors who are living day to day with the consequences of the commercial sex trade and largely relating to the escalating gun violence.

But as they say, a picture is worth a thousand words.

And so we have compiled a short video today, which I'd like to just say a few introductory remarks about.

So what you're going to see is a snapshot of one hour of the sex trade, one hour of the sex trade on one corner of Aurora.

You are then going to see multiple nights of gun violence.

I would like you to pay close attention to the fact that a number of those incidents actually involve the women themselves, the commercially sexually exploited women being shot at.

They, too, are victims of the gun violence.

We're going to hear from parents of middle schoolers at Robert Eagle Staff, whose daughter has been solicited.

And then we are going to have the testimony of Detective Maurice Washington, who is one of the two in our Vice Unit's human trafficking detectives who has a very long history working in this area.

who unfortunately was not able to be with us today because he's in another jurisdiction training on the best practices for working with commercial sexual exploitation.

So if we could run the video, please, and then I'll follow up with some additional remarks.

Over the last several months, Aurora Avenue North and adjacent residential neighborhoods have been facing escalating gun violence, largely driven by commercial sexual exploitation, aka the sex trade.

This has included running gun battles and multiple shootings overnight.

SPEAKER_99

Thank you.

SPEAKER_27

I've been asked to talk about my experiences as a business owner on Aurora.

I own Fuzzy Buddies, which is near the corner of 109th and Aurora, we've been there for 20 years.

It's become a very challenging place to run a business, and I feel unsafe.

uh it is unsafe there's visible signs of crime day and night up there a couple weeks ago one of my staff went out into the parking lot and she saw a sex worker hiding between two cars she said hey what's going on the woman said that another pimp had brought a girl in and dropped this Other woman off to fight her.

This woman did not want to fight, so she was hiding scared in my parking lot.

My staff person ended up driving her to another location on Aurora.

And in her car, this woman was hiding so that the people looking for her couldn't find her.

I had another woman show up at my door in May who was terrified.

She was crying.

She had been abducted from another city.

She had been brought to this neighborhood and told to go stand on the corner and make money.

She was scared.

She ended up hiding in my business for four hours before someone could drive from her town over here to pick her up.

This is what sex trafficking looks like.

SPEAKER_26

One time, one guy was following for two blocks.

Two blocks.

Other time, from my business, it's 98th Street, really close here, maybe four blocks to here.

One guy was with the pants down and make he...

make something really bad and I was outside and I say hey let's go to here and something like that other time one car was close my daughter and follow him and say hey can you come here I have something for you and something like that the greatest challenges is that we have currently is that there is just a

SPEAKER_45

a onslaught of trafficking-related incidents that are going on, not only here locally, but around the country.

It has become very popular and mainstream for this to happen throughout the country, and a lot of law and policy is replicated in many of the different areas that leads to some of these areas developing there.

And once they develop, there's very, very plaguing and hard to deal with.

And so what we have, again, is an explosion of the amount of persons that are being exploited sexually and put out in the tracks and online within our jurisdiction, within the city of Seattle.

And we have the plaguing aspect of all of the different pimps and traffickers who are fighting over that territory, which leads to the gun violence and the other associated violence that you have out on the track as far as robberies.

And rapes and those types of things.

So all of this is fed through the same system.

It's the same ecosystem that feeds crime.

One feeds to all the other crimes that are going to be related and come around to that crime.

And so and then on top of that, you have many of these persons who are pimps and traffickers and these individuals are some of them are associated with gangs.

And so then the gang issues start to come into play because now they're within that border jurisdiction from North 85th to 145th.

And so any type of gang related issues that they bring with them.

are going to play out on the streets up there as well.

And so all of those things feed together to a very adverse and challenging situation, very dangerous situation for our public, for our residents and citizens who live up there.

And our challenge is, again, to continue to try and combat it as best we can with whatever tools and resources that we're given in order to fight this problem.

And and working together with our community and with our all of our different partners to try

SPEAKER_39

So I think it's very clear from the video and the testimony that we heard today, this morning, that we have an ecosystem.

We have an ecosystem of criminal enterprise around commercial sexual exploitation.

And we have to get a handle on the ecosystem for the public safety of everyone.

For the women and the girls and the boys and the men who themselves are being trafficked, We need to get a handle on the public safety for the residents who live in those neighborhoods, for the businesses who are trying to survive in those neighborhoods, for the middle schoolers who are getting off the bus at 90th and walking down to Robert Eagle Staff, for the high schoolers who are getting off the bus at 130th and going to Ingram.

We cannot continue to have this level of gun violence in our city, nor can we continue to have this level of sexual exploitation of human beings on our street corners.

When I was approached by my constituents about, please, please help me, I thought, what can I do?

And so I did actually reach out to survivor groups.

I met with REST.

I met with OPS.

I met with the YWCA.

I met with Judge Mack, a number of the people who are here today.

I met with The More We Love.

You know, all individuals who have been survivors themselves.

Judge Mack has done a tremendous amount of work in commercial sexual exploitation organizations.

over the years, and I really listened to what they had to say.

I also met with the major crimes unit, the human trafficking unit.

I met with standard law enforcement, and then I met with my neighbors, business owners, the school principal, and tried to take on board everything that they were saying to me.

And so I want to just say, before I turn it over to central staff, who will present a very detailed memo, that this is not the loitering bill that we had prior to 2020. I have taken very...

I've taken efforts to really change it.

And I heard the first thing that survivors told me was enforcement actions need to target buyers and pimps.

That's a significant change to this bill.

This bill, for the first time, actually includes specific behaviors that describe the behaviors of buyers.

The prior bill did not have that.

And the focus was not on enforcement for buyers.

This bill allows us to go after buyers.

It also means that we don't have to use undercover officers, who are always women, because, A, we're short-staffed, and also, I quite frankly think it's degrading to have to participate in an undercover sting as a sex worker.

The other thing that's very different about this bill is it states front and center that for the women, the preference, the preferred disposition is diversion.

For the first time, that language is in a law relating to loitering and to prostitution.

Right now, prostitution is illegal.

Many people don't understand prostitution is illegal.

But the law doesn't say that there's a preference for diversion.

This bill does.

And what does diversion mean?

It means it gives officers the ability to approach and inquire and talk about how do we get you into services.

And I would be the first to say we do not have enough services.

Absolutely.

And I hope that everybody who was here today talking about the need for housing and health care and emergency receiving centers are here when we come back in September to be making as much noise then as they are now about those needs for services and off-ramps.

Because we do need them.

They are absolutely critical.

But we also have some services available, and we need to be making a difference now.

We cannot wait.

The other important difference to this bill is that it creates a new offense that has not been created before.

It is an offense that targets pimps.

Right now, promoting prostitution is a felony.

It requires the testimony of the women in order to establish the case.

That places the women at an additional heightened risk.

And so they're very difficult cases to prove.

This is a new offense.

It is a gross misdemeanor, which means it allows for our police department and our city attorney to bring enforcement action.

that targets the specific behaviors that promoters engage in.

This has never been done before.

I have not heard anybody in public comment talking about those two profound differences in this legislation and this approach.

And this is the reason that I have brought this bill, is so we can take on board absolutely...

What the survivors have told us, target the buyers and target the pimps.

They've also told us it's incredibly important to separate exploited individuals so that they are able to successfully exit the sex trade.

We've got to create that disruption and that interruption.

We've got to give time for that to happen.

The trauma bonds out there are profound and complex and very difficult, and this has to happen over and over and over, and we need the tools.

We need every single tool we have to break that bond and to help people get out of an exploitive and violent environment.

The other thing is, as I stated on the record, I will be seeking funding in the fall for an emergency receiving center.

It's true, we only have seven beds, not enough.

So I will be requesting funding for an emergency receiving center in the North End.

The other thing that I was told was that survivors of commercial sexual exploitation with arrests and or convictions, very difficult to overturn.

This bill specifically directs the Human Services Department and the Mayor's Office to create a program that will provide advocates that will work with individuals who have prostitution-related convictions to vacate them and to eliminate them from their commercial any arrest record from their commercial record so that it doesn't show up when they apply for a job or for housing.

That currently does not exist.

That is something new in this bill and it was driven by the feedback that I received from survivors.

And lastly, I want to address the soap areas.

All we need to do is look to shoreline.

Shoreline has a soap area.

It's been in effect for 28 years.

It has been found to be constitutional.

It has not resulted in the end of civil liberties as we know it, nor has it resulted in disproportionate enforcement on communities of color.

I would be the first to note that we have disproportionate enforcement in communities of color, partly because communities of color are disproportionately represented in commercial sexual exploitation.

And as a society, we absolutely have to acknowledge that and do something about it.

But the one thing that's happened in Shoreline is, and initially, they did engage in enforcement actions.

But you know what?

Since then, people realize that that activity is illegal and will not be allowed, and it now serves as a deterrent.

That is my ultimate goal, is that the soap will serve as a deterrent.

And there are many exemptions in this bill for people.

And again, the focus of the soap is to create prostitution-free zones from buyers and from promoters.

Thank you very much, Chair.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

Snaps, snaps, snaps, please.

Okay, and you have speakers?

Yeah.

I'm going to turn it over to Ann.

SPEAKER_39

All right.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you, Councilmember Moore.

I understand you have some speakers.

Did you want Ann to speak?

ALL RIGHT.

WE'LL OVER TO MS. GORMAN.

SPEAKER_10

THANK YOU.

AGAIN, I HAVE A SHORT PREPARED DESCRIPTION OF THE SPILL TO READ INTO RECORD, AND I'D BE HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS DURING OR AFTER.

Council Bill 120836 would make several changes to the Seattle Municipal Code Criminal Code pertaining to prostitution-related crimes.

Taken together, these changes are intended to broaden the ability of law enforcement and prosecutors to take action against, number one, sex buyers or johns, And number two, sex traffickers.

Sex traffickers are people who use force, fraud, or coercion to compel someone to engage in a commercial sex act.

This bill is responsive to an environment of commercial sexual exploitation, or CSE.

Councilmembers will see the term used in the bill itself and throughout the staff memo.

In the CSE ecosystem, sex is sold in a manner that is inherently exploitive, and this is why the term CSE victim is also used.

The bill acknowledges this systemic exploitation and it emphasizes that for CSE victims who are compelled to sell sex, The preferred dispositions are diversion, referral to social services, safe house placement, and other alternatives to booking, not law enforcement.

This bill would restore to the Seattle Municipal Code the misdemeanor crime of prostitution loitering, and it would add new descriptive elements to that crime that are intended to expand its enforceability against sex buyers.

It would also add a new gross misdemeanor crime to the Seattle Municipal Code promoting loitering for the purpose of prostitution.

This crime is described in such a way as to make the observed activities of a sex trafficker prosecutable.

Typically, prosecutions against sex traffickers require the testimony of a CSE victim who was coerced by that trafficker to sell sex.

That experience can be re-traumatizing or even put the victim in danger.

And this aspect of the bill was informed by engagement with CSE survivors.

The bill also would authorize the city to establish stay out of area of prostitution zones, soap zones, and it would establish a soap zone along the Aurora Avenue commercial corridor.

This area has experienced a significant increase in crime, especially violent crime, with a nexus to prostitution.

Sex trafficking is very lucrative, and in recent years gangs have assumed a role in this market, with turf battles and gunfights becoming common.

Finally, the bill would authorize Seattle Municipal Court judges to issue soap orders to individuals charged with or convicted of a crime within a soap zone when that crime is either specifically related to prostitution or the judge believes that it is.

An example of the latter case could be a sex trafficker in possession of an illegal gun that was used in a turf battle.

Someone receiving a soap order must stay outside the soap zone or risk being charged with a new gross misdemeanor crime that could lead to a fine or jail time or both.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you, Ms. Gorman.

We have City Attorney Davison and also Assistant Chief Mahaffey available for questions for us here on the dais.

As usual, Vice Chair, do you have any questions?

And I guess questions could also go to the bill sponsor, Council Member Moore.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Councilmember Moore, for bringing this proposed bill.

I do especially appreciate the short video that you prepared and shared in connection with all this.

It's one thing for us to advocate on behalf of our constituents, which we all do every day, the dais.

behind closed doors, so to speak, when we're connecting them with the various services and programs of our executive departments, et cetera, et cetera, helping them fill these pesky potholes.

And we'll continue to do that.

But it's it's also another thing to let our constituents and the real scope of the challenge speak for itself.

And so I appreciate the video feature where, you know, some of our residents here in Seattle and were able to share their own stories and then the.

The underlying challenge that we're seeking to address with this proposed bill, the gun violence, it's a real problem.

It's not academic.

It's more than just a heat map.

It's more than just a problem on a crime—a stat.

People are—people's homes are getting shot up.

People's small businesses are getting shot up.

People's cars are getting shot up.

People are traumatized and scared.

We need to do something.

Doing nothing and hoping and praying is not a—like someone pointed out earlier, it's not an effective public safety strategy.

And, you know, there's a difference between a necessary and a sufficient condition.

Yes, we need restorative justice programs and diversion and treatment.

And that's not the end-all, be-all.

That's not necessarily sufficient.

We are in a crisis.

So in any event, I appreciate the effort.

and thinking through some of these challenges and how they impact other issues.

And I really appreciate the video.

So my question is, so it sounds like there's a parallel soap law in place just up north in Shoreline.

As Council Member Moore alluded to earlier, it sounds like there's no—well, it's known to be constitutional, enforceable.

Just be curious to better understand, does the SOAP law in place in Shoreline, does it actually result in lower incidents of gun violence, which I think is— the primary challenge we're seeking to address here, amongst others.

But is it actually achieving lower incidence of gun violence in that area?

So I guess to any of you all.

SPEAKER_47

I can't be sure what's going on in Shoreline.

I do know.

in the city, and I'm sure it's not a secret interview on the diocese, is that Aurora is one of our most significant areas of gun violence in the city.

I've got some stats here, and since I had them prepared, I might as well just give them to you here real quick.

For the two beats that cover Aurora in the area that we're talking about, so 85th up to 145th, in 2023, we had 23 incidents of gunfire, shots fired.

2022, we had 28. This year, year to date, we've had 46 with 459 shell casings recovered, which probably goes to the evidence presented by Councilman Warner video.

So for us, it's a significant issue along Aurora.

I do know anecdotally talking to some of our colleagues in King County, they don't have that level of gun violence on Aurora and Shoreline.

But for us, it's a significant issue.

SPEAKER_19

Could you repeat this again, 46 this last year?

SPEAKER_47

So the previous two years, year to date now we're talking, so up through August we had 23 and 28, and we're at 46 already this year, and with a significant amount of casings, over 450 casings recovered.

SPEAKER_24

So I totally understand, and I wouldn't expect you to be an expert in shoreline data, but I would expect you to be an expert in understanding how laws in a neighboring jurisdiction impact or don't impact our own coverage.

So I would appreciate any comments, feedback you have on that.

SPEAKER_47

I know from talking to our team that deals with human trafficking specifically, and when they talk to their colleagues in shoreline that Shoreline doesn't have the issues that we do as far as the openness of it, and the other issues that go along with it, especially when we're talking to violence when it comes to people, the traffickers fighting for territories and that type of stuff.

It significantly decreases, and I think you can see it anecdotally.

If you drive up Aurora at certain times of day and then cross over 145th, I think you'll see a significant difference in the conditions on the street.

SPEAKER_24

So it is your, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it is your assessment.

See, Attorney Davidson, if you have a point of view to share on this specific point, would appreciate hearing that as well.

But it is your assessment that the law in Shoreline has had some measurable impact, and as a result, our lack of parallel law in Seattle, you know, we are bearing the brunt of the underlying crises relative to Shoreline.

Would that be...

True or incorrect?

SPEAKER_47

I can't speak for the efficacy of their law or the impact of it.

I can only speak to, you know, the issues that are brought to our attention and what I think you can see when you drive up the street, the difference.

SPEAKER_24

Sure, but what is, okay, let me re-ask my question.

What is your assessment of the law and shoreline and its impact or not on the city of Seattle?

SPEAKER_47

Look, anecdotally, I could say it is pushing activity down towards Seattle because they have the capacity to to have a soda zone and to enforce it, or excuse me, a soap zone, and to enforce it where we don't have that capacity here.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

No further questions, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Vice Chair Saka.

Council Member Hollingsworth.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you, Chair Kettle.

Thank you, Council Member Moore, for bringing this.

One of my main concerns, I've had the chance to work with Robert Eagle Middle School during the pandemic.

I was working at a food hub, and we set up a food pantry specifically at that location because a lot of the students there are international families, and they are immigrant families, which English is not their first language.

And I know that they have been suffering from a lot of the violence that's along Aurora that has been creeping off into their school.

And one of the things that comes to mind is our kids.

We had a 14-year-old girl speak here today about some of the stuff that she's encountering.

And we had adults say comments and laugh at her.

Completely inappropriate.

And I think the thing is, what are we telling our kids and our babies right now about what they are seeing?

They're becoming desensitized to it on the street.

And who are going to protect our kids?

And we have to have adults that have the mindset of our future and our kids.

And the second thing I wanted to address, and I heard it in public comment, and I've seen it around, people equating Jim Crow and apartheid to some of these laws that are being considered today.

And I think oftentimes, Seattle uses black issues for some folks to promote whatever agenda they have going on.

I do not speak for the black community.

I've said that multiple times, but I do speak for a lot of people that have expressed the same type of concerns and issues about this.

And this has nothing to do with Jim Crow or apartheid.

Those are race-based issues that were targeted towards a community where you had to have a passport in apartheid to be able to go to different places.

And this has nothing to do with that.

This is safety.

This is community.

I think just saying what's going on, Aurora, gun violence, it's more than that right now.

It is more than just gun violence that we're seeing in our community.

These are actual war on our streets.

And I know that I've heard from a number of people that they are scared for their life.

And what about them, right?

And so the question I had, and Council Member Moore brought it up, I was concerned about the service piece on this and the emergency beds.

And I was really delighted to hear that that will be coming up to have a space in Aurora to have emergency shelter beds, because I think that's the number one thing that people are concerned about is, hey, we're putting these boundaries and these laws in place, but can we be able to have service for these young girls?

and the people that are in these communities.

And that's one thing I'm really concerned about, making sure that they have a safe place to go to be able to have the resources and help and how we can match the prevention and intervention investments to the enforcement piece that we're trying to do as well, to the Johns and the...

uh...

the the pimps and the gangs that are that are running these you know illegal operations and so the the question i have uh...

and this pertains to and i saved my question uh...

The question I have about the soda and the soap, as we do these boundaries in these certain community hotspots, and I'm going to just be the first to say it, capital has a major problem as well with a lot of the activity that's going on.

There's two grocery stores, and that's where a lot of the drugs and the violence are happening on Broadway, the two QFCs that are also being considered to be sold and possibly closed because of a lot of the stuff going on.

And it would be detrimental to our community for those grocery stores.

Detrimental.

I just want to point that out how those are food access.

We've already lost a lot of businesses on Capitol Hill, particularly our pharmacies that are hubs for our people to get their medication.

Bartels, Walgreens, like all these places.

So I want to ask the question, as we were considering these boundaries, how do we avoid the activity to be pushed around to other neighborhoods?

And I think that's a big concern I've heard from people on Capitol Hill, you know, it being focused and targeted in these communities and what that looks like.

That was a long-winded statement, comments, and then question at the end.

So thank you.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you, Council Member Hollingsworth.

Any other questions from the dais?

SPEAKER_03

Well, that was a question, Chair, if that's okay.

I know you got lost in the words.

I apologize.

Thank you, City Attorney Davidson.

SPEAKER_21

Do you need to extend the time?

I don't know your protocols if you need to...

No.

Okay.

I will take that.

Thank you, Council Member Hollingsworth, for that question.

As I said earlier...

for anyone who was not here in attendance, for the soda, the two proposed zones that I put forward equate to one quarter of 1% of the 83 square miles of our city.

Those are the two soda zones.

Again, carefully crafted to exclude as many social services as we could, understanding where the known drug markets are, where those criminal enterprises are profiting, where people know they can come because all their drugs and they can make a lot of money.

and victimize people further, and keep them in the throes and oppression of addiction.

That's for that.

For SOAP, it is 1.4% of the 83 square miles of our city.

And again, as Assistant Chief Mahaffey had said, we have become a destination known in many states This is the place to come and be a profiteer off of other people in the sex trade.

So to me, it is just paramount to us, as you said, because what the message is to young minds as they just even witness what is going on in our north end neighborhood is critical.

And so the displacement is going to probably be some, but these are well-entrenched areas that have taken a stranglehold of those neighborhoods.

And the disruption needs to happen.

The displacement of the entire market is not going to, in my opinion, become like a pop-up and it's just going to show up automatically a block over.

There is going to be some impact because otherwise we can't have it.

You saw the map of the zones prior to 2010. But we still need to...

to be making the efforts we can, strategic safety with the amount of resources we have, the officers we have, where these are entrenched criminal enterprises, where people know they can come, again, and be profiteers in criminal activity, and we just let it sit there.

So when we create that disruption, we will know there will be some displacement, but I think that it will be more positive than anything else.

SPEAKER_51

Can I call that answer?

SPEAKER_39

Can I bring my panel up?

SPEAKER_51

Yes, thank you.

Well, hold on.

I've got two questions.

Council President?

SPEAKER_19

I will defer to the sponsor.

SPEAKER_51

Okay.

Two quick questions, and then we do have a panel to come up really quick.

I know we're running on time.

I just wanted to note two things.

One, for Assistant Chief Mahaffey, Aurora, major bus lines.

King County Metro Transit Security.

King County Sheriff.

What's their role?

What's their playing?

It's also State Route 99, Washington State Patrol.

How do we bring this in?

What is the coordination?

How can we have a Tiger Team effort to surge, if you will?

Because it is a county and state responsibility too, which goes back to my earlier point on the soda.

SPEAKER_47

So we have already done some emphasis patrols up there with State Patrol.

particularly in the evening time, so they'll be up there for the traffic enforcement piece while we may have a team doing another proactive crime interdiction piece as well.

County, I'm not sure if we have done any collaboration with them on Aurora specifically.

We have downtown in the past and continue to do so with King County Metro Transit Police regarding issues around their properties.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

I note, and Mayor Harrell, gets asked this a bit in terms of responsibilities and accountabilities, but we also have Executive Constantine that has responsibility and accountability issues, and then Governor Inslee as well.

And I think too often we don't say that.

And I think it's important for Governor Inslee and for Executive Constantine to be part of this and show the leadership to Transit Security, Transit Metro Transit Security, or King County Sheriff, or in the state, Washington Police, because it is an all hands on deck effort.

both soda and soap.

Thank you for that answer.

For City Attorney Davison, the same thing related to the courts.

This all started with Blake.

They changed it from felony, and then with this legislature, and then Governor Inslee signing it, then became the gross misdemeanor that was passed by legislatures.

And they have responsibilities too.

Governor Inslee has responsibilities.

It went from King County Prosecuting Office to your office.

So Executive Constantine has responsibilities in addition to you, which is obviously separate, and also for Prosecutor Mannion as well.

So we have to be highlighting these points because I think too often things change and then it gets quiet.

It gets quiet in Olympia.

It gets quiet across the street.

And what ends up happening is...

THE BRUNT, EVERYTHING FALLS TO US.

AND AGAIN, I'M SAYING THAT WE SHOULD DO THIS IN ONE SEATTLE WAY, ENGAGING, AND I JUST WANTED TO HIGHLIGHT IF YOU HAVE ANY RESPONSE TO THAT OR IF THAT RINGS TRUE.

Please respond.

SPEAKER_21

In regards to the soap, I would support Council Member Moore's earlier comment, which she so eloquently and succinctly explained what we're trying to do with the soap, which is to not replace felony criminal activity.

This is to provide additional supplemental tools that we can be responsive to the North End neighborhood.

associated with prostitution and the criminal activity around it.

But again, focusing on what can we do for behavior that we all know is culpable in the criminal enterprise of sex trafficking and focusing on those who are looking to promote, again, to be profiting from that.

Those who are looking to buy, that is what we're adding to this legislation.

Those are to supplement when a felony is maybe difficult to prove, the evidence is not there, what additional activity is there that we can proceed with from a gross misdemeanor standpoint for those who are looking to traffic and misdemeanor for those who are looking to buy.

So to me, that is an important part because, again, when the county prosecutor cannot pursue for evidentiary standards for felony criminal activity, what is available for Seattle Police to refer to my office that we can pursue for our North End neighborhood?

SPEAKER_51

Thank you.

Thank you so much for coming.

I'd ask you to transition to have our panel come up.

Sorry.

SPEAKER_39

Oh, go ahead.

SPEAKER_51

I was going to...

We're going to bring up the panel.

Panel.

That's Member Moore's group.

SPEAKER_39

Yeah, if you'd like to come up to the table now, that would be great.

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_51

We are running short on time, so thank you, everyone, for presenting.

SPEAKER_39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_51

And also welcome to this group.

SPEAKER_39

Go ahead and come to the table.

Come on down.

No, you don't need the computer.

Just go ahead and have a seat.

Uh...

All right.

Well, thank you.

Good afternoon.

Thank you so much for your patience and for all of you being here today.

I've asked all of these individuals to come here today because of their expertise in so many of the aspects of what we've been talking about and also their personal experience.

So if I may just ask each of you to identify yourself for the record and go ahead.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you.

I'm Barbara Mack.

I'm a retired King County Superior Court judge, the original convener of the King County CSEC Task Force, and I've been involved in training judges and others, hundreds of them nationwide, for a number of years on the issues of trafficking, sexual exploitation, and trauma.

Thank you.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you.

Hello, I'm Jean Chang.

My parents have had a business on 109th and Aurora for 30 years.

And I also have a business in Shoreline just over the 145th line.

So Council Member Saka had some questions about that that I could probably answer if you, you know, that weren't answered before.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_37

Hello, my name is Sarah Ann, and I am the Director of Survivor Services at The More We Love.

I'm also a survivor of human trafficking and sexual exploitation.

Welcome.

SPEAKER_35

I'm Christine Moreland, the Director of The More We Love.

We're an anti-sex trafficking organization and somebody who provides resources to the communities in need.

I've served on the streets for roughly 22 years.

SPEAKER_12

Welcome.

Zach Stowell, proud principal of Robert Eagle Staff Middle School and Seattle Public Schools.

SPEAKER_99

Welcome.

SPEAKER_36

Audrey Bedke, Director of Training and Partnerships at REST.

We engage with more than 600 survivors every year and we run the seven beds, the only beds that are available for survivors and always at a full capacity.

SPEAKER_39

Welcome.

Thank you all for being here.

I guess I'm just really going to turn it over to you to hear what your thoughts are, what your experiences have been.

As we've heard, this is a very difficult topic and it's the The needs are complex, and I think it would be helpful for us to hear how can the city best address the complexity of the needs of both the survivors and then the greater communities, and how can we work most effectively together in collaboration?

So Judge Mack, I'll let you maybe talk a little bit about your experiences and sort of the academic aspects as well.

SPEAKER_06

Thank you.

I'd like to put this in context and thank you all for addressing a situation that crosses the silos we've built up.

institutionally across public health, substance use, sexual exploitation, and obviously escalating violence.

I think you should be aware of a study that came out of Colorado Springs a number of years ago.

It studied 30 years of health, death, and law enforcement records of nearly 2,000 women known to have been actively engaged in prostitution.

The average age of death was 34. The leading cause of death was homicide.

Drugs were a close second.

Murder accounted for 19% of the confirmed deaths.

Most of those killed were killed while soliciting by buyers.

The study concluded that the vast majority of murdered women were killed as a direct consequence of prostitution and noted the role of buyers in perpetrating both lethal and non-lethal violence.

There's a more recent study, 2022, that cited the Colorado study.

This new one was a multi-country study of the causes of mortality in sex workers around the world.

Of 2,112 sex worker deaths, 12.5% were murdered, 13.6% were suicides.

3,659 children lost their mothers.

This is a huge issue, and it's more than just talking about what people are seeing in their neighborhoods.

Talking about real people, you're going to hear from them, and real children.

And make no mistake, there are children on Aurora.

Within the last week, two minors have been recovered from Aurora.

One was 11 years old.

The proposed ordinance is an important step to helping the women forced by traffickers or circumstances to be out on Aurora.

I want to emphasize three things.

No matter how good this bill is, and it is good, if the city doesn't focus its attention on buyers and traffickers, if we don't fund enough police officers and detectives to do the job, and if we don't significantly expand the services necessary to help victims and survivors, you run the risk of making things worse, not better.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_39

Thank you so much.

Jane, if you want to give us your background and your experience.

SPEAKER_07

So for the last 30 or so years, my parents have a rose shop, a flower shop next to the cemetery at 109th and Aurora.

And if you've been to a funeral at the Washelle funeral home, my parents have likely done the flowers for that.

So they have never felt unsafe in the entire 30 years of doing business on Aurora.

I grew up, you know, going to her shop and working there.

I've been working since age nine for my family.

And recently, as in maybe the last 18 or so months, there's just been heightened activity.

It's not just the vandalism and the shootings and the...

the violence that comes, the noise, it's not just that, it is the fact that we have young children that are being trafficked in front of us.

So we have had to have video and audio to listen to what is happening in front of our store.

And really, those are the stories of the people who are trafficked that are so harmful that when they talk to each other and they talk to each other as if they don't know anyone's listening, when they are begging to be taken off the streets, when they are asking each other where they're from and they don't know where they're from, and they don't know how old they are.

They're not oftentimes literate.

My mother used to give water and supplies to who were the sex workers and now trafficked humans.

So there's a point maybe, like I said, in the last 18 months or so that she was unable to do that or approach anybody who was on her doorstep.

She cannot get out of her parking spot.

I have to escort her.

At night, we get first call calls.

They work sometimes late at night, and she can't leave.

April 1st, she was attacked, punched in the face, and had repeatedly, she was in the ICU.

And my father was also attacked.

I've also been hurt out there just asking, simply asking a question, and this was never the case before.

So I do business in Shoreline just over the 145th line.

And we have no problems.

I work with the council and the police officers and community members, business members, business people, and all of the community members.

I work with them very closely, and we just do not have this issue up there.

So I'm constantly being...

dragged into this situation, there was no help for my mother.

So what brought me here today is that I had to reach out and go to a safety meeting and find a community member who was recording video.

And then I met all of these other people in the community that are terrorized.

Essentially, they live there.

My parents have a business there and we do business there, but they live right on the streets.

Right up against what's happening and it's day and night for them So I as a as a civilian citizen have had to find another citizen for help So this is of course not we don't want to my family and I do not want to harm any of the sex workers and I keep hearing the word sex worker and and trafficked people used synonymously.

And these are two vastly different things.

These are trafficked young girls, children, people.

And there are pimps that are out there.

And I'm in full support of this.

We need to do something.

I haven't heard a lot of solutions, and this is it.

So thank you.

And if there's any questions you have, please.

SPEAKER_39

Go ahead.

Sarah Ann, thank you.

Sarah Ann, you want to just give us, tell us sort of your story and the work that you do now?

SPEAKER_37

Hi.

Sorry, I was, I had the question, so I had the question.

Oh, okay.

So, sorry, I'm nervous.

Oh, no, no, take your time.

My name is Sarah Ann, and I am currently the survivor of directed services at The More We Love.

I'm also a survivor of human trafficking.

I have...

spent most of my life on Aurora.

I was turned out at 12, so I spent a good portion of my life on Aurora, and this is definitely the worst I've ever seen it.

Now, with that being said, it's always been bad.

Don't get it twisted, but this is the worst that it's ever been.

The truth of the matter for me is that nothing good has ever came from me being arrested for prostitution.

My criminal record has made it difficult to rebuild my life, get housing, get a job, and the stigma for survivors follows you around forever, no matter if you get out or not.

But what if, instead of being criminalized, I had been offered survivor-led intentional services?

My life and the life of my children would have been entirely different.

I have seen firsthand I'm just going to be honest.

I've never seen a John or even a trafficker be arrested, never in my life.

And I was in the game for a very long time.

while survivors are just left to bear the consequences of that, the shame, the not being able to find a place or find a job.

At 14 years old, I was assaulted by a buyer and was laughed at by a police officer when I tried to report it.

This reinforced a message that I didn't matter.

And imagine the difference it would have made if an officer would have told me that I wasn't to blame, that the buyer was wrong, that he would be held accountable.

I think it's time for us to support survivors, show them that they matter, and hold buyers accountable to help change these narratives.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_39

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_35

I'm Christine Moreland, and I'm the director of The More We Love.

We are a community constant that shows up for the most vulnerable, often the trafficked.

I walk alongside Sarian every day.

I'm also a survivor.

I want to speak into the bill of support in the sense that we need to have a diversion program a pre-filing diversion program available for the women that we serve and the children that we serve and the men.

It's important that we have opportunity to divert them into real intentional trauma-informed services.

As it was spoken, there are seven survivor beds right now.

And we are currently putting five more into play.

But seven here, five there isn't going to accomplish what needs to happen.

We are advocating that funding is written into this bill for an emergency receiving center.

I think it would be of purpose to bring an emergency receiving center into play so that we can...

bring together the resources that are working together, break those silos, and really stand up and serve these women.

So I thank you guys for the work that you do.

The More We Love is going to continue to be a constant in this space with or without that bill, but we do need funding for resources.

And I know that Council Member Moore has put her heart and our soul into this work over the last couple months.

And I can't imagine what this has been to bear for you.

And so what we can do to support this space, I want to say thank you.

SPEAKER_39

Thank you.

SPEAKER_12

How you doing?

My name is Zach Stowell.

I've had the honor and pleasure of serving the Northwest region of Seattle Public Schools for the last 17 years as a teacher at Northgate, a principal intern at Broadview, and principal at Greenwood, and now at Robert Eagle Staff Middle School.

And I can say over this last year and change, it has been one of the most challenging years as a leader, including the pandemic.

As this last year, I had to run into an active shooting scene as students were transitioning to school.

and ensure that they knew what to do in that situation as it was chaos right before the bells ringing.

In addition, we've had Overdose right in front at 3.45 p.m.

across to where our buses are at to where I had to divert.

And there was a person that was, thank goodness their life was saved with Narcan.

The cops were prepared and was able to take care of that.

But the students also experienced that.

We've also had a body that has been overdosed on our school property, found on our school property by community members walking their dog before school starts that day.

AND THE KIND OF LIST GOES ON, BUT WHAT REALLY HIT ME IS WHEN OUR STUDENTS ARE STARTING TO BE APPROACHED BY PEOPLE THAT KNOW THE AREA IS KNOWN FOR THIS, SO THEN THEY ARE SEEING OUR, AS COUNCILMEMBER HOLLINSWORTH SAID, OUR BABIES.

THESE ARE OUR BABIES THAT ARE JUST GOING HOME TO HANG WITH THEIR FAMILIES, AND THEY'RE BEING APPROACHED BY PEOPLE THAT EXPECT CERTAIN THINGS.

AND I'M GOING TO TAKE IT A STEP FURTHER THAT IT'S NOT JUST OUR YOUNG LADIES IN OUR SCHOOL, BUT OUR YOUNG Boys are also being targeted in trading Xboxes for guns and having access for things off of Aurora and engaging in activities that are not part of being a child in our neighborhood.

We've tried creative things.

I mean, even creating a Saturday school that was optional for kids to have a safe place to connect, and we had over 150 kids show up because they don't have areas to play in their communities.

But what I would say here is, like, the reality is budget cuts.

I work in education.

I'm no stranger to budget cuts and challenging complex challenges.

But at the end of the day, what we have to do is find commonality in knowing that we have, within a one- or two-mile radius, our students have to walk in middle school.

So if they're within that one or two miles, how do we ensure that that before and after school is the safest possible halo for our students?

And that's why I'm here advocating just for an awareness of the things and the challenges that we have.

I can focus on having a safe, warm, and welcoming environment within our school community, but once they are on their way and are leaving, there's this big gut, this tough feeling that I have that I cannot protect them, and our community is doing everything they can, but it's just, it's a challenge.

I do want to say thank you to the North Precinct, whether it's Lieutenant Tuttle, Officer Faison, Seattle Public Schools.

In all of these instances, these folks have shown up within two minutes, and they have been supportive.

But my ask is for us to stop leading from our heels and being great responders, but being proactive in ensuring the safety of our students.

SPEAKER_39

Thank you so much.

Audrey?

SPEAKER_36

I also thank you all for paying attention to this issue and to giving it the time and attention that it deserves.

And in addition to just emphasizing what has already been said, I will say that services do work.

So the seven beds that we have do serve 55 individuals annually, and we see lives changed.

Now it's only seven beds because the complex trauma that is experienced by trafficking causes complex difficulties in recovery.

And so it's hard to expand without substantial funding to be able to do that.

And in Seattle, we have some phenomenal organizations that are doing the work, but we are all that capacity.

Our organization engages 600 individuals every year.

And so to even have those 55 spots available is not enough.

And so we need that funding to be attached to this so that there can be a viable option.

90% of people involved in the sex trade say they will leave if a viable option exists.

But if I'm involved in trafficking and I take the risk to leave that trafficker behind and I don't have a place to live, I don't have food, I don't have clothing, I don't have support, I'm gonna go back there and I'm gonna get the worst beating of my life.

And so we cannot be putting people in further harm's way unless if there are those viable options available.

The other thing that I will emphasize is that one thing that I do celebrate, it's the grossest word, nevermind.

What I celebrate is our lives change that we see.

One thing that I can acknowledge about Aurora is that it puts this issue in front of our faces and no one in our community is comfortable with human beings sold for sex, especially children and especially because of force, fraud and coercion.

And the one concern that comes with this is if it's out of sight, out of mind, will we forget about it?

But we need to know that this is happening in our communities.

And so we need to be able to address it, whether it's in our faces or whether we move it out WE NEED TO PUT AN END TO IT SO THAT IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT CONTINUES IN OUR COMMUNITIES.

SPEAKER_39

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

DID YOU WANT TO HAVE A QUESTION?

SPEAKER_51

THANK YOU.

THANK YOU VERY, VERY MUCH.

I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT.

YOU HAVE DIRECT IMPACT, DIRECT KNOWLEDGE.

IT'S REALLY IMPORTANT TO HEAR YOUR VOICES.

AND I'M REALLY APPRECIATIVE ALSO TO HAVE THE SCHOOL DISTRICT INVOLVED BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE HERE.

I'VE ALREADY MENTIONED THE COUNTY AND THE STATE, BUT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT HAS A ROLE, AND IT'S IMPORTANT TO HEAR YOUR VOICE.

Clearly, we're over time, but is there any questions for this panel amongst the dais here, Council President?

SPEAKER_19

I would like to say a few words just in closing in general for this meeting, so I don't know if now is the best time.

SPEAKER_51

Yeah, we can question slash closing statement.

SPEAKER_19

So basically, at the beginning of this meeting, one public commenter talked about the fact that the vote to repeal the previous loitering laws was unanimous and then said something along the lines of, and now you want to bring them back.

Why?

And the answer came a couple of commenters later, and the person said, it's only gotten worse and you need to do something.

And everything we've heard today from the panel, thank you very much, to the horrifying video, to the testimony of the public commenters, shows that, yeah, we have to do something.

We cannot not do anything more.

No amount of throwing more money at the problem is going to make a difference.

Yes, more services, more money there, but there needs to be an amplified Law enforcement response and the components of this bill that do allow for targeting the traffickers, focusing on behavior, all the unique elements of this legislation will make a difference.

And I thank you very much, Council Member Moore and City Attorney Davison for bringing this forward and working so closely together.

So, basically, this council was elected on public safety, frankly.

That is what our constituents are most concerned about, and we need more tools.

There will always be problems with—there will always be detractors, and there might be problems with the legislation we're trying to do to advance public safety.

Yes, we could be moving a problem.

But if you read this audit, it talks about making sure the importance of understanding the micro conditions at places.

So, yes, we are targeting a place activity might move, but that does not mean it will move in the same concentration because there is also a deterrent.

element here.

And those micro conditions don't exist elsewhere.

So it's time to really focus our efforts.

And that is what we are doing.

So more tools, because what we're doing right now is not enough.

And what are we going to do?

Just nothing.

Just go forward and be satisfied with the status quo.

That is not an option.

And I really thank you very much for coming out standing up and for my colleagues for bringing this forward.

So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you, Council President, Vice Chair.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And I do want to thank you all at the table here for taking the time to share your perspectives, your feedback, how we can potentially iterate and make these proposals even better and better and better.

and challenging us to be better too, and working collaboratively with us and holding us accountable for the results.

But I want you all to know, you don't need me to say this, but your voices and your perspectives matter, and they're greatly appreciated, And they are going to help us be better wherever we land on this bill.

So thank you.

And Council Member Moore, thank you again for bringing this proposal to hold buyers accountable, stop and shut down commercial sexual exploitation, and ultimately reduce gun violence in the area.

I am still—with respect to both soda and soap, I am still evaluating these proposals.

I think we all are, because we're not voting on them today.

But I will note that—and someone mentioned this during public comment earlier, you know, and this is facts—we are just simply not going to arrest our way out of these challenges.

Facts.

Absolutely.

And I understand that, and I think everyone does.

I'll also say this, you know, flip side of the coin, look.

I love, love, love, folks.

I love restorative justice and healing circles just as much as the next guy, just as much as the next council member.

But colleagues, I'll be perfectly honest here with you.

We're not going to kumbaya only our way out of this.

We need more tools.

We need to expand the array of options.

Doesn't mean we have to exercise.

Doesn't even mean a judge is going to grant it.

But we need to do something.

And adopting the hope and wait approach and wait and see and luck, relying solely on luck, not an effective public safety strategy.

I'm here to do better, committed to doing exactly that, working collaboratively with impacted members of the community, and you all colleagues do exactly that.

So thank you, Chair Kettle.

SPEAKER_51

All right.

Thank you, Vice Chair.

Council Member Moore.

SPEAKER_39

Thank you, Chair.

I just wanted to say thank you to all of you who've come here today.

It's not an easy thing to put yourself in the public limelight.

It's not an easy thing to talk about what you've experienced, the work that you do, and the data that you bring to us.

This unfortunately seems to have become somewhat And I don't think we should politicize human suffering.

But I really appreciate the fact that you've been willing to listen to me, that you've been willing to work with me.

I really, you know, it's not a perfect bill.

We don't have a perfect solution.

But I really have tried to take on board what you have said.

pointed out and I just want to emphasize the purpose of this bill is to provide the tools to go after the buyers and the pimps and to provide services off ramps and the collaboration the money that you need to do the incredible work that you are doing on a shoestring right now And we can improve the bill.

Absolutely.

I'm certainly open to that.

And there's no intent to shut people out of Aurora Commons.

I think we need to expand that exemption language in there for sure.

But we have to do something.

We have to be honest about the challenges that we have in our society.

We have to be honest about...

all of the members who live in our society and our obligations to provide public safety to all of them.

It's not always going to be easy, but I really do believe that this bill is going to give us the tools that we need.

And it addresses, I think, some of the prior problems in terms of requiring specific training for police officers.

and survivor-informed and lead training for police officers, stated diversion policies, other things, exemptions, all of those things that are going to be important to making sure that we do not go back to the bad old days, that we move forward in an enlightened manner.

Thank you so much, Chair, for giving me this opportunity.

SPEAKER_51

Thank you, Council Member Moore.

Mr. Chair?

SPEAKER_24

Yes, Vice Chair.

I do just want to recognize, like, in addition to everyone here, all the public, every last public commenter, I do want to specifically, we don't get a lot of youth, but I do want to specifically acknowledge and say thank you to the youth that's still in the back right there, a young lady and her mom, a 14-year-old girl.

Look, sat through, shared her feedback and sat through a three and a half plus hour meeting.

Thank you for, you know, again, sharing your insights and empowering us.

And, you know, I got a 10-year-old daughter myself, Maeve.

I hope she's equally engaged and civically engaged as you are.

So thank you.

Anyways, thank you, Mr. Sheriff.

SPEAKER_51

Yeah, thank you.

I have a nine-year-old daughter, so...

I want to thank you.

I thank everyone for a thoughtful meeting on two very difficult topics that pushes through disinformation and information to get the information that's needed for all of us.

Thank you to the participation of the public, all of you that are here, those that are outside, those that are here before, City Attorney Davison, Assistant Chief Mahaffey, and Ms. Gorman, and our panel.

Thank you so much for coming.

Thank you for the discussion on the bill's intent and the details of the bills.

You know, as Council President noted, we're voted in to work public safety and the other challenges that we face in the city.

We are a new council.

But rest assured, we're in agreement with the old council in terms of the goals, the end state that we're striving for.

There's no difference there.

We're not completely different.

I just come down to the point that we cannot be engaged, kind of what the vice chair said.

We cannot be thinking that we can have a hope strategy or a wish strategy to get to that goal.

ANY STRATEGY THAT WE HAVE, LIKE OUR STRATEGIC FRAMEWORK, COUNCILMEMBERS, MORE'S BILLS, CITY ATTORNEY'S BILLS, THE MAYOR, WHEREVER THEY COME FROM, The intent is to be practical, to get answers to the questions that face us.

And so that is our approach, to be practical, to take in the testimony, to make adjustments with amendments, which went to my earlier point about the three bills that I mentioned at the beginning.

We can do that because ultimately, our mission here is to create a safe base in our city that leads with compassion, that leads with empathy, but also has the wisdom to know that we have to look out for the whole community.

And it's a balancing act.

I understand that.

And so, again, thank you so much for everyone who's been here today.

We have reached the end of today's meeting agenda.

Is there any further business to come before the committee before we adjourn?

I'm assuming not.

Thank you very much.

Hearing no further business to come before the committee, we are adjourned.