Public Safety & Human Services Committee 1/24/23

We are recording.

Thank you so much.

The January 24th, 2023 meeting of the Public Safety and Human Services Committee will come to order.

It is 9.32 AM.

I'm Lisa Herbold, chair of the committee.

Will the clerk please call the roll.

Council Member Nelson.

Present.

Council Member Peterson.

Here.

Vice Chair Lewis.

Present.

Chair Herbold.

Here.

Council Member Mosqueda is excused for present.

Thank you so much.

On today's agenda, we will hear one appointment and two reappointments to the Pacific Hospital Preservation and Development Authority Governing Council.

We'll hear the reappointment of Andrea Scheele as Executive Director of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission and of the Civil Service Commission for a term of confirmation to January 21st, 2026. Then finally, we're going to do a little bit of a deeper dive into the Public Safety and Civil Service Commission in view of the interest in some of the functions of the commission.

I want to just have the opportunity to talk more about what they do, both for our own interest as well as the public interest.

With that, we will now approve our agenda for our committee meeting today.

If there is no objection, today's agenda will be adopted.

Seeing no objection, today's agenda is in fact adopted.

This time we'll move into public comment.

I'll moderate the public comment in the following manner.

Each speaker will have two minutes to speak, and I'll alternate between virtual and in-person public commenters.

I'll call on each speaker by name in the order in which they registered on the council's website in a sign-in form.

If you've not yet registered to speak, but you'd like to, you can sign up before the end of the public comment session.

Once I call a speaker's name, The request is that you listen for the prompt if you're using the virtual option.

And when you hear that prompt, you need to hit star six to unmute yourself.

Again, this is only for people using the virtual option.

Please begin by speaking your name and the naming the item which you are addressing on the agenda.

And speakers will hear a chime when 10 seconds are left of the allotted time.

Once the speaker hears that chime, we ask that you begin to wrap up your public comment.

If speakers do not end their comments at the end of the allotted time provided, the speaker's mic will be muted after 10 seconds to allow us to hear from the next speaker.

Once you have completed your public comment, please disconnect from the line.

And if you plan to continue following the meeting, We encourage that you do so via the Seattle channel or the listening options on the agenda.

There are three people signed up for public comment, two virtually and one in person.

We'll start with our in-person public speaker and that's Carolyn Monroe.

I'm sorry, Carolyn Malone.

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms.

Malone.

Thank you.

Good morning.

I'm here on behalf of the public safety issue and Seattle police being out of compliance with the federal decree continuously in January and June 2017, my license, driver's license was canceled.

I don't have a criminal record nor a traffic record, but because I had the audacity to ask police over a period of time, why the hell you stopped me, my license was canceled.

About a year later, my car was disabled.

So much so it had to be towed into Lincoln Towing.

More than a year later, I filed a lawsuit through U.S.

District Court.

And Judge Marsha J. Peckman was the assigned judge.

About a year later, as the case was being worked through, my lawsuit was canceled.

And when I called to ask about it, I was told, oh, the judge just canceled it.

No one was in the court.

At best, that's wrong.

At worst, that's illegal.

and the continuation of cancellations of my property, my ability to conduct my affairs go on and on and Seattle Police need to be held accountable.

My housing is in limbo because of complicity by Seattle police.

And I will continue to speak out on street corners and protests.

This is why police circulate around me, have others surveilling me, harassing me because of my outspokenness.

If my ancestors hadn't been outspoken, I'd still be in slavery.

Thank you.

Thank you Ms. Malone.

Our next public speaker is Howard Gale and Howard will be followed by Sarita Segar.

Howard.

Good morning.

Howard Gale with Seattle Stop dot org.

These are some of the Seattle Times stories relating to SBD failures and concerns from just the last two months of 2022. Chief Diaz wanting to end the federal consent decree.

The day after the Ingram Heights school shooting, SBD conducts a traumatizing SWAT exercise nearby.

SBD officers who are continuing their six-year lawsuit in Vendetta against a council member.

An SBD officer who is on leave admitted probe into alleged stalking.

The SBD arresting graffiti artists now.

The revelation that our state police academy was graduating recruits with a propensity for violence.

The continuing story of SBD's warning as sex trafficker of investigations that then led to further abuse.

The SBD's unnecessary arrest of a man in behavioral crisis leading to his death in jail.

The revelation that a 911 dispatch whistleblower was routinely ignored, leading to a recent death.

SBD leadership retaliating against an SBD sergeant for revealing failures in sex assault investigations, and on and on.

This would suggest more than enough topics directly related to policing and the consent decree for this committee and the CPC with a $2 million budget to focus on.

But what does the SPD spend their first two meetings of 2023 discussing?

Small businesses and crime, along with executive sessions to discuss staff failures, topics wholly irrelevant to constitutional policing, and the purpose the CPC was created for under the consent decree and Seattle law.

If this doesn't indicate how detached and alienated from the community the CPC has become, then this should.

CPC's continuing defense of failing to name SBD homicide victims and CPC's inability to even start the near six-year overdue process of having a complainant appeals process.

We need to start over and build in a police accountability system that provides full civilian community control over policy, misconduct, and police discipline, as many cities have done since George Floyd.

Thank you.

Thank you, Dr. Gale.

Our next speaker signed up is Sarita Segar.

Sarita Segar is showing as not present.

And so unless that changes in the next few seconds, that is Sarita Segar is our last speaker for public comment.

And I'm not seeing any change in Sarita Segar's not present status.

And with that, we will close public comment.

Thank you.

Will the clerk please read in agenda items one through three.

Agenda item one is appointment 02437 appointment of Martine Pierre-Louis as member of Pacific Hospital Preservation and Development Authority Governing Council for a term to December 31, 2025. And then item two is appointment 02438 reappointment of Ina Abbey as member Pacific Hospital Preservation and Development Authority Governing Council for a term to December 31, 2025. Agenda item three is appointment 02439 reappointment of Susan Taoka as member Pacific Hospital Preservation and Development Authority Governing Council for a term to December 31, 2025. Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

We are joined today by John Kim, Executive Director of the Pacific Hospital Preservation and Development Authority.

We're also joined by Gail Tarlington, Director of the Office of Intergovernmental Relations.

Thank you both so much for being here today.

Our first two appointments are from the PDA Governing Board.

So Executive Director Kim can present those.

Director Tarleton is here to present the third appointment, which is a mayoral appointment.

And so to kick us off, Director Kim, could you please proceed, followed by Director Tarleton.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

It is always a pleasure to be before this group with nominees for our governing council, and it is my honor to offer the following to Martine Pierre-Louis.

is currently the Director of Equity, Diversity and Inclusion at Harborview Medical Center.

She has been serving as a strategic advisor to the PHPDA's program committee and has served with distinction and brings to our conversations an incredible perspective, one that really makes us a stronger and better organization, and we couldn't think of a better person to bring in as a full-fledged Governing Council member.

I am also offering the reappointment of Aine Abbey, who is currently the CEO of the Tubman Center.

She also has been serving with distinction, is outspoken in our meetings, and helps us to be a better organization.

Just a side note, it is with extreme pleasure that we were in attendance at the groundbreaking ceremony on the north lot of the PHPDA grounds, where the development of 160 affordable housing units is being undertaken by our sister PDA, the SCID PDA.

We are so happy that this is finally taking place after many years of development.

Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much, Director Kim.

Before we pass it on, I'm wondering, could you just say a few words for the viewing audience about the Pacific Hospital PDA, your function, your mission?

Just orient us all on the important work that you do.

Thank you.

Pacific Hospital Preservation and Development Authority is the steward of a landmark historic property on the northern prow of Beacon Hill, formerly the Marine Hospital and after that, Public Service Hospital.

Currently, we steward the property to generate revenue that is granted back into the community to support community-based organizations who are seeking to eliminate disparities in access to health care for residents of Seattle and King County.

We are a health equity warrior.

Thank you so much, Director Kim.

I really appreciate it.

So I might be mistaken.

I do not see Director Tarleton here with us to present the mayor's appointment.

I would be happy to do that as well.

Sue Teoka is a long-serving GC member.

and former president of the GC.

So she has a long and distinguished career and is known well throughout the city and the region.

So I'm proud to offer her as well as the mayor's appointee.

Fantastic.

Thank you so much.

really appreciate the willingness of folks with us here to serve.

Perhaps we could hear a few words about your interest in serving as a member of the PDA Council, starting with Martine Pierre-Louise.

Thank you very much.

I have to say that I first heard about the PHPDA as a grantee.

And in my previous position at Harborview, I was Director of Interpreter Services.

And one of the programs that we started was one where we actually weren't sure that it was going to be a good idea.

It was going to be taking a risk.

And we selected as a partner for that risk, the PHPDA grant program, and they took a risk with us.

And this was a program where we discovered that our patients who spoke Spanish and Somali and who had diabetes were actually having a harder time managing their diabetes.

And we wondered whether adding a pace worker who was from their community to assist both the patients as well as the healthcare team might actually really support the patients as well as the health care team in a way that hadn't been tried before.

What we found was that within about six months, these community health workers had helped over 85% of those patients tremendously reduce their risk for complications.

And the program was so successful that it actually has become an ongoing part of how we work with patients with diabetes, those that are limited English proficient at Harborview.

So for us, you know, PHPDA really demonstrated how we can have an idea that we want to test out and find a partner to help us really find out what can work and what can work well.

And we wanted to, and I want to be able to do that with others, really discover the interventions that are successful and that work well for communities and families that are the most at risk.

And so I am, I have experienced the power of the PHPDA and I want to make sure that it's continued and that it's available.

Thank you so much.

Very, very, very well said.

Really appreciate the understanding and commitment to the importance of language in delivering superior health care to our communities.

Really appreciate your leadership in that area.

Council Member Nelson.

Thank you very much, and thank you very much for your willingness to serve.

For folks that don't know, I'm impressed that you have been working at Harborview since 2002, so 21 years.

So that is a really long track record in that one particular medical setting.

You clearly know that role.

And as illustrated by your other work and your interest in the PDA, you started out as interested in sociology and got a BA from Fordham in sociology, did some graduate study.

And so that is exactly the mix of skills that I think that is needed and will be an asset here.

I want to note that your resume includes 10 selected honors and awards, including Harborview's Manager of the Year Award in 2005. What I particularly like about your bio is that you are described your it says her personal style is collaborative and genial, but ultimately tactical and dogged.

And so that precisely the qualities that I think that are needed on our commissions.

And thank you very much for putting yourself forward.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

That.

deep dive into the abundant qualifications on Martine Pierre-Louis' resume.

So let's move into the next stage here.

I'm going to go ahead and to move the committee recommends the confirmation of all three appointments, unless there's any objection, we're gonna move all three together.

And that's appointments 02437, 02438, and 02439. Is there a second?

Second.

Thank you so much.

It has been moved and seconded to recommend confirmation of appointments 02437, 02438, 2, 4, 3, 9. Are there any additional comments?

All right.

Seeing none, will the clerk please call the roll?

Council Member Nelson?

Aye.

Council Member Peterson?

Aye.

Vice Chair Lewis?

Yes.

Chair Herbold?

Yes.

Foreign support?

Thank you so much and congratulations.

Really appreciate, again, your willingness to serve the residents of Seattle and users of your health services.

And please also extend our hearty congratulations as well to the reappointments.

These will be moving on to the full council meeting on January 31st.

Thank you.

Thank you again.

It's an honor.

All right, will the clerk please read in agenda item four?

Agenda item four, appointment 02436, reappointment of Andrea Shealy as executive director of the Civil Service Commission and of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission for a term to January 21, 2026. Thank you so much.

We are joined today by presenters chair of the commission, and that's chair Stacey Canole, chair of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

Also Mary Weidman Williams, another chair of the Civil Service Commission, excuse me.

And they will present the reappointment of Director Scheele, Director Shealy's position is as director of both commissions, the Civil Service Commission and the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

Open up the floor to which of the two of you that would like to go first.

Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Hi, my name is Stacey Canole.

Good morning and thank you for having us here today.

I am, as Chair Herbold said, the chair of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

And I'll start by introducing myself and then Andrea Scheele, our executive director.

And then I will turn it over to the Chair of the Civil Service Department, Mary Weidman Williams.

We are here to support Ms. Shealy's reappointment as Executive Director.

The two commissions met jointly in November of 2022 and overwhelmingly and resoundingly supported her desire to seek reappointment as Executive Director.

I will also know as you know from your agenda, Ms. Shealy will be giving a presentation about the work of my commission, the Public Safety Civil Service Commission after the reappointment consideration, including our role in addressing the police hiring crisis.

I do plan to remain available for questions or discussion at that time.

Before I launch into introductions, having never appeared before this committee or the city council, I would like to offer my thanks and deep appreciation for your service to the city.

I've been a resident of Seattle for 24 years.

Most of that I've lived in Chair Herbold's district, an area that I love.

I joined the Public Safety Civil Service Commission in 2019, and I've served as chair for the last three years.

I am the mayor's appointee.

I would note that we recently lost our city council commissioner and it's just a three commissioner committee.

So we're certainly excited about getting someone put in in that position as soon as possible.

I was initially approached about joining this commission because I'm an employment attorney and have professional experience working with law enforcement.

After working for several years at Foster Pepper, now Foster Garvey, as a litigator, I went to the King County Prosecutor's Office and worked primarily on felony domestic violence trials, working closely with SPD, and of course, the Sheriff's Office at that time.

I then returned to my civil roots and became an in-house employment attorney for King County, working with the executive, the sheriff's office, and the health department at that point.

Then spent 10 years as an in-house employment attorney for Nordstrom and became their crisis management and safety director for the corporation.

I now advise small and medium sized local companies through employment issues and crisis management.

With that background, I'd like to introduce Andrea Shealy, who we're here to discuss.

I first met her in 2019 when she sought the position of Executive Director of the Civil Service Departments, which again houses both the Public Safety Civil Service Commission and Chair Weidman-Williams Civil Service Commission.

She was immediately and obviously well qualified for that, as you can tell from her resume, which is in your packet.

And I say that because of her deep experience in both employment law and human resources and she'd worked for the city for some time and of course the city has its own language and its own rules and procedures and Andrea knowing the people knowing the language knowing how to open doors and.

In the position that she is in which of course, naturally can bring to it differing priorities and different concerns.

She hit the ground running what we didn't know and couldn't have known in 2019 was that Andrea would have to lead us through a pandemic.

which changed the work that is done because, as you well know, our commission does support the hiring promotion and appeals of adverse employment action of both the police department and the fire department.

So the pandemic changed that work and Andrea had to lead us through that.

But then of course, Andrea also led us through the upheaval that the 2020 protests brought to the city and the police department itself.

And she has such a commitment and understanding of race and social justice.

And she lives and breathes that work.

She is committed to being a lifelong student and proponent of anti-racism.

And it's something that Andrea takes very seriously and she brings to the work that she does on behalf of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

And at a time when we know that that focus needs to be a priority, it always should have been and it certainly is now.

We are very lucky to have someone with Andrea's commitment, dedication, and background in this role.

So on behalf of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission, I strongly urge you to reappoint her today.

And I'd like to turn it over now to Chair Mary Weidman-Williams.

Thank you.

Thank you, Chair Canole.

Thank you, Chair Canole, and thank you to Councilmember Herbold and your fellow council members.

It's a pleasure to be here.

My name is Mary Wideman Williams.

I'm the mayoral appointee and current chair of the Civil Service Commission.

And as Commissioner Canole and Chair Canole has already detailed, it is a a pleasure to kind of emphasize what Director Shealy brings to this role.

I began my appointment as a commissioner three years ago, shortly after Director Shealy was appointed and began her work.

And so I feel like we have grown and learned together in this process.

And I have been particularly impressed by Director Scheele's growth into the role of a departmental leader.

I worked for 20 years for the City of Seattle in three different city departments, many human resources roles, and in my last role as the Chief Operating Officer and Deputy Director at Seattle Center.

And so my perspective about what it takes to be a department leader and a human resources professional in this environment, coupled with Andrea's background, legal background, was really convincing to me that she is the right person for this work and continues to be.

She has grown as she has developed relationships on behalf of the department, across all city departments.

She's been a tireless advocate of the work of both commissions, particularly with the Civil Service Commission.

It has been our charge to ensure that there is access for all civil service employees to their rights that they are given and that they have the ability to not only access those services, but to really understand what their rights are.

And so Director Shealy and her staff have done a tremendous amount of work to shore up that service area of that department while at the same time helping us navigate our way through the challenges of a pandemic, making sure that we as commissioners stay abreast of all of the kinds of potential challenges and understanding our responsibilities as it relates to hearing the appeals that come forward.

And so, I can't say enough about her background and her experience and how that has prepared her.

But also, it's her commitment to the work itself.

And it is her dedication to making sure that the work that she does, as Chair Canole already expressed, is done from a perspective of being a continual learner.

And she has been really very humble in accepting feedback and direction and in learning what she didn't know and doesn't know.

And her colleagues have expressed tremendous respect for not only the work that she does, but how she shows up as a colleague, a partner, and a peer.

So it is my pleasure to share on behalf of the Civil Service Commission our support of Director Scheele as the Executive Director of the Civil Service Department on behalf of the Civil Service Commission, and we urge her reappointment today.

Thank you.

Thank you so much, Chair Wyden-Williams, and thank you both for your service on both of your respective commissions, not just your service, but your leadership as well.

At this time, I'd like to hand it over to Director Shaley to see what thoughts she would like to share with us about her time directing the commissions and why she's interested in continuing in this role.

Thank you, Chair Herbold, and thank you to the other members of this committee and our City Council for considering this confirmation of my reappointment today.

I'm Andrea Scheele, I'm the Executive Director of the Civil Service Commission and the Public Safety Civil Service Commission and of the Civil Service Commission's Department.

And with these two at my back, there's really not much left for me to say.

I am honored.

I am humbled by their words.

I am grateful for their service.

And doing this job is one of the honors of my life.

I have always advocated on behalf of employees in the various roles that I have held.

That is where my heart and my dedication resides.

I love being able to advocate for and work to ensure a fair system of administration of our civil service systems and for fair treatment for employees.

It is it is a privilege to be in public service, not just for me, but for all of us in public service.

And I, you know, I'm happy and grateful for the opportunity to continue in this role.

Thank you so much.

I'm going to open it up to my colleagues.

But first, just a couple things I'd love to get on the record.

I just want you to know how much I support your reappointment, and I really appreciate the work that you do with a small staff.

We've heard about your commitment to the work from your colleagues, your experience as an attorney, a human resources professional, and a people manager who leads with your core values of compassion, integrity, and equity.

Just quoting from the appointment and really share those observations of your work and your commitment.

In addition to these excellent qualifications, what the commission chairs are saying today are a testament to your work and how you go about it.

I really want to highlight the very, very helpful role you played during discussions regarding the mayor's proposal for hiring additional police officers.

your patience, working with myself and my staff, going over the nuances of processes.

And I also want to just call out, there's a lot that you've done, but I also want to call out your leadership.

And I think one of the values that I think is really important to public service is tenacity.

And you have really been a great support of the council's efforts to put into place various types of preference points for in recruitment of our first responders, both on the fire side and on the police side, as a way to ensure that we are attracting talent with a wide variety of skills and abilities.

And I know that you assisted in shepherding those changes, as well as had the assistance, of course, of the commission members themselves who ultimately approved those changes.

So really want to say thank you for that.

We're going to do a deeper dive into the public safety civil service commission after the appointment.

So if you have questions about the commission itself, maybe hold them until we get to the next item.

But if there are comments or questions that my colleagues have about Director Shealy's reappointment, this is a great time to hear them.

Not seeing any virtual raised hands, nor my colleague present here with me, Council Member Nelson, not seeing any indications.

I'm going to go ahead and move that the committee recommends the confirmation of appointment 02436. Is there a second?

Thank you so much.

It has been moved and seconded to recommend confirmation of Andrea Sheely as Executive Director of the Civil Service Commission and the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

And I'm just going to check again whether or not there are any additional comments.

Not seeing any.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

Council Member Nelson.

Aye.

Council Member Peterson.

Aye.

Vice Chair Lewis.

Yes.

Chair Herbold.

Yes.

Four yes.

Fantastic.

All right.

So the appointment will move to the full council meeting on January 31st.

really appreciate the time of the two chairs to come today and present the reappointment of Director Scheele.

And again, I want to just tell each of you how much I appreciate your service.

And if you could send on my appreciation to the In your case, Chair Canole, the other member of your commission, and to Chair Wideman-Williams, to your co-commissioners as well.

We are working on filling that vacancy, Commissioner Canole.

So thank you for raising that.

All right.

Thank you.

Will the clerk please read in agenda item number five.

agenda item 5, public safety civil service commission overview and update.

All right.

So again, thank you for Director Shealy for appearing here to present about the work of the public safety civil service commission.

This commission isn't necessarily very well known in the public eye, but it plays a really important role in both hiring and testing for the police and fire departments, as well as what we heard earlier today in the process of addressing employee complaints.

towards the end of that process.

So just want to hand it over to you.

I know you have a little presentation to run through, and just we'll also keep an eye on my screen and at the table here, the dais here to see if we have questions throughout the presentation.

But other than that, let's hand it over to you, Director Scheele.

Thank you, Chair Hold.

So I'm going to put my presentation up on the screen, and I may not see if there are questions, but I welcome questions.

It's not a terribly long presentation, and I'm really grateful and excited to share with you more about the work of the Public Safety Civil Service Commission and the staff of the Commission as well.

So I will now make an effort to put this up on the screen.

And while you're doing that, I'm gonna just say a few words on the side of the recruitment and hiring process, sort of what is being done sort of back of the house before applicants get to you.

We recently received an update from the mayor's office about their work addressing structural and process improvements to make it easier for new recruits and laterals to hire.

Some of those improvements include transitioning to a digital backgrounding system.

Already, it's proving to be more efficient and a better experience for potential candidates.

Previously, candidates filled out actual paper and that, of course, extended wait time and created opportunities for lag.

They're also working to increase the number of entry and lateral exam administrations, and of course, Director Shealy, I know you have a lot to do with that, and you'll probably talk a little bit more about that.

The increase is from 14 annually from 11, this is just for the SPD side.

The physical agility tests starting this year, they're going to be able to offer three local testing locations and a virtual testing option for out of state candidates.

They're also working on establishing more accessible and timely medical screenings that are required for positions in the police department.

And as mentioned earlier, expanding the preference points program to also include community service.

There have been some additional hires consistent with council actions, including an additional employee at SPD to help with candidate throughput, processing and recruitment.

And they're gonna be hiring two additional backgrounders to process applicants.

And then finally, they're working on hiring a recruiting manager and two additional recruiter positions.

So this is all really important work to implement the funding that the council provided as part of the recruitment plan.

We know that applicants often will select several different departments to send their scores.

And so addressing this backlog in the intake system can make Seattle more competitive.

There's some marketing work that's being done as well, and they're working in the interim to do a temporary advertising plan, highlighting the benefits of working in public safety while they are developing new outreach efforts and innovative and modern marketing materials.

So with that, I'll hand it back over to Director Scheele.

Yes, thank you Chair Herbold.

I'm actually really happy that you brought up a lot of those points and shared those with the committee.

We are part of a multi-departmental, multi-office team that is working together to strategize and those are a lot of the ideas that mostly will be implemented by SPD, but it really is, I can say, a team effort and that people are putting a lot of energy and creative thought into solving, working towards the solving of this problem.

And with that, all right.

So as I said, feel free to chime in with questions if you have them or hold them to the end, whichever you prefer, although I might need someone to let me know if there is a question.

But I'm happy to pause and explain.

I've been asked to come here today and speak a little bit about the Public Safety Civil Service Commission and its work.

And to do that, I want to give you all and members of the public who are watching a little bit of historical context.

And I will speak specifically about exam development and administration and what our commission and departments efforts are towards resolving the police hiring crisis in Seattle that we're dealing with right now.

But I'm going to go back to the beginning, which is something I really love to do.

If you can't find me, go look at City Archives.

Seattle is a civil service city.

It is part of the fabric of how we employ people in the city of Seattle, and I think it is so important that I talk about it all the time.

It has been part of the Seattle City Charter since 1896. First, it was just the Civil Service Commission and Civil Service Department, which many of the functions were moved in 1979 to the newly developed Personnel Department, and we call today SHR, Seattle Human Resources, but there used to just be Civil Service.

This was well before public employees, including public safety employees, were allowed to unionize in the state of Washington.

And so the only protections that employees were guaranteed when they worked for the city of Seattle was their civil service rights.

And those rights were so crucial, they are maintained in the city charter and we still have them today.

In 1979 a lot of things have changed, public employees were allowed to unionize and the city decided to reorganize.

There was also a several laws passed at the state level requiring civil service for public safety employees, including most ranks in the fire and police departments.

Civil service in Seattle for civilian employees is purely a creature of city code in the city charter.

We do not have to have it, but our original legislators decided that we would, and so we do.

But all state agencies that employ fire and police employees do have to have a public safety civil service.

They can call it something slightly different, but it is guaranteed for those employees in the state law.

And our city code and charter put that to work for us here in the city.

So there are separate commissions that oversee the work of these two civil service systems.

One is the Civil Service Commission and one is the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

And in 2012, our city government combined, they used to be two separate city departments and they were combined in 2012, although the commissions do retain their separate legal authority under their work and under a single executive director who was not me in 2012, but is me now.

I use this slide to highlight the independence of the Civil Service Commissions Department and the two commissions themselves, although it's the members, two-thirds of the members are appointed by the City Council or Mayor.

These commissions are independent.

My appointing authority is actually, although confirmed by the City Council, these two women represent my appointing authorities, the chairs of the commissions.

And so I think that's really important, especially for employee members to understand is that when the Commission's make a decision or have authorized me empowered me to make a decision on their behalf, that is an independent decision that is not cannot be overturned by the executive branch or the city council or.

You know, the presiding judge of the Court.

I think it's helpful to understand the demographics of our city employees.

This blue, sorry, the brighter blue, well, the medium blue, are our employees in the civil service.

This data is good as of the 19th of this month, so very recent.

Most of our city employees, or more than half of our city employees, are actually members of the civil service.

And that means that they have civil service rights to their employment.

That is after they serve a probationary year.

Our public safety civil service is a much smaller section of our employment body, and that is more than 2000 of our employees are in those ranks in the fire and police departments.

The brightest blue represents our exempt employees.

The types of employees who are in this category are all of our temporary employees, all of our assistant city attorneys, elected officials, executives, and some classifications of manager and strategic advisor.

Most everybody else is in the civil service or the public safety civil service.

And this darkest blue represents the library system.

The library system, as I know all of you know, is sort of a different creature and none of the employees are in the civil service system.

This chart does not speak to employees membership in a collective bargaining unit.

That is an entirely different system with some similar rights, although the rights are not the same.

And I always advise employees and leaders in our city, if they have questions about collective bargaining rights, to talk to their appropriate contact on that issue, who is not me.

I'll talk a little bit about the authority and scope of the Commission.

And I'm going to speak here about the public safety.

Oh, I'll talk actually in this slide about civil service generally.

This is from the city charter.

It says that all city employees shall be members of the civil service, so it is a presumption that an employee would be in the civil service, except for the several exemptions, as I mentioned elected officials appointed officials city attorneys heads of departments members of boards and commissions and then there is a.

An additional statute, it is SMC.

it's escaping right now, 404.13, I think, that lists all of the exempted positions.

And those positions, as you know, are exempted specifically by the City Council under a certain criteria.

And finally, in 1977 we added to the portion of the charter that there shall be a separate civil service system established by ordinance for firefighters and police officers, this was as a result of that 1977 state law, so we established the PSCSE in 1978.

Do you know, Dr. Shealy, aside from the mechanism that created the separate system, what the legislative intent was, like what prompted this separate system?

Well, it was required by state.

I don't know.

There's no record that I've been able to find that states the specific legislative intent.

I can guess that it was established separately because it is not under the personnel ordinance, which governs all of the things for employees in the civil service, including the personnel rules, which actually do not apply to members of the public safety civil service system.

Although those two public safety employees have members in each of those systems, because they have many civilian employees as well.

I think it is just to to make clear that there are different rules that govern each systems operation.

And, you know, perhaps to make them severable you know if if the city ever decided to eliminate its civil service system by charter amendment.

The State law would still require us to have a public safety civil service system.

This is maybe a little bit of a easier way than me just explaining what the sort of scope of duties of these two public safety or the C2 civil service systems are.

The civil service system, both of both of the systems here disciplinary appeals by their members of serious discipline and so anything that implicates a property right and that's pretty limited to.

separation, demotion, and suspension.

Written warnings are not appealable, for instance, to either of the civil service commissions.

The CSC also has the authority to investigate political influence and hiring that's in a civil service classified position.

That's the body that would investigate that and make decisions on that.

The CSC also has the authority to make recommendations about the city's personnel system to the city council and the mayor's office.

The public safety civil service system has a broader scope.

We are also charged with the development and administration of all of the city's entry level and promotional exams.

Those are the only jobs that we actually do civil service exams for these days.

Back in the olden days, I think probably into the 70s, we were doing civil service exams for most of the positions in the civil service.

So you would take a test to be a janitor, you would take a test to be a clerk.

And many jurisdictions still do that.

We don't do that here in the city of Seattle, at least not in a civil service setting.

But we do it for our very important public safety positions.

including all of the ranks in the police department up through lieutenant and all of the ranks in the fire department up through battalion chief command staff positions, there are not civil service exams for those.

So I oversee that work, and the commission oversees that very important work that is actually performed by staff in the Seattle Department of Human Resources.

And we work very closely together and closely with the departments to ensure that those needs are being met, the department's needs are being met, and that we are testing the relevant information that a candidate needs to know to be either hired or promoted to the rank that they are seeking.

I also, with help, oversee the entire Public Safety Civil Service system to ensure its correct operation.

And I am the final signer as the Executive Director on classification decisions in the Public Safety Civil Service.

I do that work with the grateful assistance of staff and Seattle Human Resources as well.

I have said a lot of this already, so I won't read it to you, but this is the authorizing ordinance, the Public Safety Civil Service Ordinance 4.08.

Establish an independent commission to rule make, to oversee this work, to ensure compliance with it in coordination with those for whom we perform this work in the departments that we work with.

And these are our primary buckets of work, which I've already mentioned.

We do merit-based entry and promotional civil service exams for those ranks that I mentioned.

The commission is really responsible for conducting quasi-judicial hearings on appeals for suspension, demotion, and termination.

Those are open to the public, which is actually a distinction.

There are many distinctions, but I think an important distinction between our hearing process and arbitration under a collective bargaining agreement which are generally done in private, classifications of positions.

And we do this work not in a vacuum or independently, but not in a silo.

I'm in constant communication with the mayor's office, the city council, and our public safety departments, as well as Seattle Human Resources to ensure that we are meeting the goals and the needs of our communities, of meeting our public policy goals and doing this work in as racially equitable a manner as is possible.

Questions, if I could?

One question is just about the issue of testing and how COVID affected your ability to carry out exams and what changes you might have made and whether or not changes made during COVID or changes that you're keeping in place now that we're moving out of the pandemic?

That's one question.

And then the other question I have relates to the recent Seattle Police Management Association contract authorized some really important reforms to the arbitration process.

And I'm wondering, Is there anything that you're observing on the PS CSC appeals side that might be resulting from the changes in the arbitration process.

Those are two really good questions and I thank you for those.

The first is changes that needed to be made during coven.

We did, prior to the pandemic, we did all of our testing in person.

And so, and that also coincided with a hiring freeze for all employees, including employees of the police department.

So I'll speak first to the fire department.

It did not impact entry-level testing for the fire department at the time.

We conduct those exams, which are humongous, attract thousands of applicants every two years.

So we had just completed and published a hiring register for the fire department in the early part of 2000, in March 2000. So we got lucky, none of us got lucky, but that was rather fortuitous timing for fire.

For the police department, however, we did have, and all other exams, we actually had to put a pause.

It was one of the first decisions I had to make as Executive Director of the Commission.

We had to put a pause on all testing, in-person testing, to figure out what we were going to do and how we were going to test safely.

During that very intense time period, The city also started talking about staffing at the police department and layoffs were actually not on the table, but but there were discussions about layoffs and so we paused entry level police testing entirely for I think it was four quarters while we realized that this pandemic was not going away anytime soon and that we could not test safely.

We used to test in Kane Hall at the University of Washington, so bringing hundreds of people together quarterly or more frequently.

We transitioned beginning in 2020 to an entirely remote entry level testing process.

Candidates could apply remotely, could test remotely, the exams are proctored, and so they are still secure You know, we do not think there is any increase in, you know, cheating or difficulty there was certainly a learning curve that we all had to get used to.

But once we were able to start that up, it has been working, I think, quite well procedurally and functionally.

So we've continued in that vein, although we are constantly tweaking that process and how we talk to candidates and how we move them through that process to try to improve that.

And in the future, we may consider a return to in-person testing.

We need to just see how this is going.

But we're sort of throwing everything at the wall at this point to see what sticks.

Promotional testing we did pause as well, but we didn't have to pause for as long, and we have fully ramped back up on promotional testing and we're back.

able to do as many promotional exams as we were prior to the pandemic and are entirely in person.

Just a quick clarifying question before you move on to my second question.

You referred to pausing testing as something you did in response to the pandemic.

But she also mentioned Mayor Durkan's 2020 hiring freeze.

When you say in response to the pandemic, you mean in response to the hiring freeze, not because of the communicable nature, not allowing yourselves to get together in a room and test, you had already made the decision to pause because, am I right?

Because you're not going to be doing testing during a hiring freeze or?

Well, it was both.

Didn't the pandemic, forgive me if I am getting the order of events wrong, but didn't the pandemic begin before the hiring freeze?

It may very well have.

I think it did.

The hiring freeze may have been in June and the pandemic more in March.

Right.

So first we paused in-person testing because it was not safe to bring people together in a room like that.

And then we continued the pause because we could not hire any police officers.

And so to test them, to have them apply and test for a job for which they could not be hired was not fair.

And while we were doing that we were planning, we were speaking with consultant companies, we were ensuring that the tests were the type of tests, the quality of tests that the City of Seattle wanted to use and the methods of testing were going to work for our candidates and for our city.

Then we were able to retool and launch the online testing function, which we continue to use.

Yes, forgive me if that was confusing.

I see Council Member, oh, there was a second question.

There's a second question and then I see Council Member Nelson is in the queue.

Absolutely.

And the second question was, I'm sorry, was about the SPMA contract changes to the arbitration process, which, of course, is separate than the PSCSC appeals process.

But just wondering whether or not you're able to observe any changes on your side of the process that might be emerging because of changes to arbitration.

Thank you.

Yes, so the PSCSE applies the same standard of review and burden of proof that is set forth in the collective bargaining agreements when reviewing disciplinary decisions.

And so that new collective bargaining agreement and the changes that they made to that process, and especially to the standard of review and burden of proof, did impact any appeals that would be filed by members of SPMA before the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

None have been, by the way, since that time.

But in order to bring ourselves into alignment with that collective bargaining agreement, which we always do, the language of collective bargaining agreement preempts any rule that we may have.

So So we recently conducted a rulemaking in November, an extensive rulemaking of our Public Safety Civil Service Commission Rules of Process and Procedure.

And Commissioner Canole was extremely involved in that.

And we brought our rule up to date with the SPMA contract.

And so employees who opted to file their appeal with the Public Safety Civil Service Commission rather than under their union's collective bargaining agreement to pursue arbitration, we would apply, the commissioners would apply the same standards that are set forth in the collective bargaining agreement.

On the question of whether I have seen any changes because of that is not yet.

I know the change I would see is that the commission would apply those same standards, but We get very few appeals by SPMA members.

They happen, but not frequently.

And I have seen none since those updates have been made.

Thank you so much.

Council Member Nelson.

Sort of along the lines of what you're saying, but it caught my ear when it was mentioned that testing was paused for four quarters.

And I think that you got at the causality there.

It started out as the pandemic, correct?

And then because of the hiring freeze is that's the sequence of events that I'm understanding.

When did that end?

When did testing resume?

Can you remind me?

The first quarter of 2020. First quarter of 2020. So the testing ended before the pandemic.

Testing ended before the pandemic.

Oh, I'm sorry.

No, forgive me.

I misstated that.

It stopped after the first quarter of 2020 and resumed in the first quarter of 2021.

OK, got it.

There's a lot of my rudimentary understanding of the application and hiring process in the police department is there's a lot that comes before the testing.

So I'm just wondering.

This is an offline conversation, but it seems like that could be a pool of applicants that could be outreached to back once the testing was resumed.

We did have a large number of people who tested in that first quarter of 2021. It was the largest group of applicants we've seen since that time because we believe that there was quite a backlog.

Yes.

Thank you.

Thanks.

All right.

So I'll just quickly introduce these are the public safety civil service commissioners, as the commission is today, we have Stacey can all who was here with us and introduced me, the elected member is Joel narc, he is a police officer.

And one of the members is always elected by the membership.

Those elections are every three years.

And this is Commissioner Dorothy Canole.

Her appointment ended at the end of 2023, but she is permitted by law and by her graciousness has agreed to participate as a commissioner until her replacement is appointed and confirmed.

This is our civil service commissioners, our elected members name is Commissioner Joshua Warner, he is an employee of SPU.

And you've met Commissioner Wideman Williams, she is the mayoral appointee actually have a vacancy on the Civil Service Commission at this moment as well because our city council Commissioner Evan Chin was just appointed last year.

got another job, which we are happy for him, but it does create a conflict for him being on the Commission, so we are actually looking at two appointments this year.

I'll talk a little bit about exam development and administration.

This is the work that I oversee and work closely with this team.

But their positions reside over in the Seattle Department of Human Resources.

But they do their work under the authority of the Public Safety Civil Service System.

This team develops and administers.

Actually, they're a team of three staff members and one part-time manager.

Thanks to work by the city council and the mayor's office together, they have funded an additional position.

And we're very close to hiring that fourth exam administrator and analyst.

So they do their work over there.

And they develop and administer merit-based entry level and promotional exams for the police and fire department and the Public Safety Civil Service Commission.

These are their values and ours as well.

They administer exams that are equitable compliant and transparent.

The civil service principles that we apply on our central to our work is that.

Hiring and promotional rankings are based on exam scores.

The exams are based on the KSIs, the KSAs, the knowledge, skills, and abilities necessary to actually perform the work of the position for which they are testing.

The independence of this process is crucial and insulates rankings and hiring, qualification for hiring from political influence.

And, but under our system and and appropriately, so I think the appointing authority has the discretion in file it final hiring and promotional appointment decision making.

So the chief makes the hiring decision, the chief makes the promotional decision from a set of qualified a list of qualified candidates that we produce to those appointing authorities.

Oh, sorry.

This slide, these are links that are available in your materials.

These are links to headlines for other jurisdictions who have had problems in their civil service system where things have gone wrong.

And it is really important, I think, to highlight that no news is good news, really, when it comes to your civil service testing process and your promotional processes.

Seattle has been really lucky, and I'll knock on this wooden desk in front of me, to stay out of the news for a very long time.

on our promotional tests, our entry level exams.

This group takes their work extremely seriously and they are the highest level of professional.

They are very skilled and I'm very proud to work with them.

This gives you an idea of the overview where the civil service exams come in in the fire and police hiring and promotional process.

Recruiting, obviously, first, we need to get candidates interested in working for the Seattle Police and Fire Departments before we can get them to apply and take our entry level exams.

And so that's what happens in an ideal world.

Recruiting is handled by both the Seattle Police Department and Newly, some work is being performed by the Seattle Department of Human Resources.

Exams is all our scope.

And we do draw some pretty bright lines around that work to ensure that we are in compliance with the Public Safety Civil Service Ordinance and the Tenants of Civil Service.

Then SPD does the pre-employment assessments.

Council Member Herbold was speaking earlier about some of the improvements that the Seattle Police Department is making in their pre-hire assessments.

That's like the PAT, the physical ability test.

There's a psychiatric exam.

There's a backgrounding process.

There are other processes that are involved too.

And then an employee begins employment for the police department that's that's the academy and for the fire department that is recruit school.

Which is the next piece in the puzzle there, so this is just.

Where are we in the process is we are here.

And so given that we're moving from 11 to 14 exams per year for the police side of things, I would imagine you've maybe already had an exam so far this year?

We have, yes.

Well, we've already had an exam.

My next, no.

Candidates for entry-level police.

So that's a unique exam.

Nobody else, fire department does not use the entry-level police exam.

But all of our candidates actually are able to apply and take the test because they're doing it remotely, they can schedule an exam and take it on almost any day of the year.

We do have to close for a day or two between cycles to do some processing, but almost any day of the year that is available to candidates, we keep our cycles open.

So we do close them at a certain point, score.

We have to apply preference points, veterans preference points.

We're not doing community service preference points, that doesn't go live until June, but there are other types of preference points that candidates do apply for and are qualified for.

And so that's a manual, it has to be a manual process here because we need to get their paperwork.

verify it, etc.

So we closed down for a day or two in between cycles, but we have already completed one cycle and we're into the second cycle of testing for this year.

That was a request specifically by Chief Diaz and we're happy to say that we are able to accommodate that request.

So this slide is to illustrate Entry level testing is extremely important.

It is crucial.

This team has a pretty heavy, a pretty full plate.

They also develop and administrate all of our promotional testing in the city for all of these ranks.

Those are also required.

Actually, those are the only ones that are required by law.

Entry level is based on need, which of course our need is very great right now.

So we are making that our highest priority.

while still meeting all of our other legal obligations and the needs of the departments.

And the number of firefighter entry-level exams are far fewer just because the sheer number of people who test for fire is much, much higher.

Chief Scoggins often refers to the list as being one that is stale or not stale.

I don't know that those are the adjectives he uses.

But yes, he has a very, very long list is still populated by people who, you know, half a year later are still interested in serving.

And it seems like that those lists stay good for a long period of time of people who are not, as I mentioned earlier, so much with FHIR, submitting their test scores to a whole bunch of different agencies and going elsewhere other than Seattle.

It seems like the number of people on FHIR's list is abundant that that isn't as much of a problem.

They they received a very long list last year they had a list of I think it was over 1600 candidates now not all of those people remain available they get other jobs their lives change.

Maybe they don't want to get vaccinated.

I don't know what all the different circumstances in their lives are, but the police department would be over the moon to have a list with 1600 candidates on it.

The testing process for entry-level fire is also many more candidates.

It also regularly, when it's not an off-cycle exam, which is what we needed to do last year because of the very great need, includes a humongous oral board process that we do live, in person, in Seattle, that lasts multiple weeks, and involves a change team member, change team members from across the city, union members, it is a very large process.

For entry-level police officer, it's just an entirely different universe right now.

Just the applicant pool is so small.

We have always done them differently because we've always needed to suit the need of the department.

But I don't remember what your original question was, but hopefully I have answered it.

But yes, the fire department gets a very long list.

They have a test every two years.

The police department gets a very short list, unfortunately, right now, and we are doing very frequent testing cycles.

That wasn't so much a question, it was an observation of the difference.

Oh, yeah.

You underscored, so thank you.

OK, so these are the things that we do not do.

These things are done mostly by the police department.

And we work with them to try to facilitate those processes and dovetail them seamlessly with our process.

And that's iterative work that we're focusing on very hard right now with lots of different partners.

But that's their scope.

And it's just nice to be able to know who has what in what bucket.

I'll talk a little bit, although we've spoken already a little bit about the police hiring crisis and what Public Safety Civil Service is trying to help the city resolve that big conundrum.

I don't need to tell any of you that we are way down on police officer staffing right now, and these two are really working hard to address that.

The Public Safety Civil Service Commission, I mentioned just a few moments ago, the application and civil service exams are available for SPD entry-level officer.

Candidates can access those almost every day of the year from their homes.

Remote proctored exams reduce, we think, participation barriers.

People do not need to travel into the city.

They do not even need to travel into our state to take these exams.

You can come up with the long list as well as I can what what barriers can come in front of candidates and hopefully by allowing them to access this from their their location will help.

help people apply to be a Seattle police officer.

We produce those lists to SPD frequently, hopefully reducing candidate wait times, also reducing SPD's backgrounding unit wait times, increasing engagement with candidates, and towards the goal of hiring qualified candidates more quickly.

We did in November last year pass a rule called community service preference points, this is for entry level police officer.

We have, as I mentioned, several types of preference points available, one for service to In another role like parking enforcement officer, we have preference points, of course, by federal and state law for members of our military service veterans.

And now we will have community service preference points.

This is a long time coming.

It was part of the 2017 police accountability ordinance.

And another part is multilingual preference points which we have had that for a number of years apply in for the public safety civil service for entry level officer, and you know people earn these points and what it does is it increases their score on the entry level exam.

The experience needs to be verifiable.

But that's one of the reasons why we need the additional staffing, actually, will be to help verify community service.

Because your verification could look different than someone else's.

When you've done military service, you get a DD-214, and that's the form you turn in.

It's pretty easy to evaluate.

But community service preference points could look, we don't even know.

We're developing the program right now.

But we're really excited to begin this program.

We're really excited to help the police department and the city get the word out and hopefully attract and hire community-centered candidates with real experience serving their own communities.

Not that we don't already, but to give them an extra boost in the hiring process.

Oh, I'm sorry.

We, we partner with SHR, SPD, SF, SFD as well, but not for police officer hiring to ensure that our, yes, our communications are clear, frequent and consistent.

We're trying, we're reaching out to candidates in a whole new ways.

Implementing, you know, text messaging and trying to reach our candidates where they are at.

And as always, maintaining Seattle's high standards for integrity, safety, and racial equity in our processes and our outcomes.

And that does conclude my presentation.

I'd be happy to take any questions.

Appreciate the overview.

Just looking to see whether or not council members remotely or Council Member Nelson have any questions.

Well, I sort of have a question.

I admit that I didn't know about your work.

So this has been very educational for me.

Thank you very much for this.

You probably go to a lot of professional conferences and understand what other police departments do across the country for their hiring processes themselves.

And so did you weigh in at all on any of these recommendations or do you have additional advice that that could be implemented to just help build back up the numbers of officers we have?

I am involved in those discussions.

I have been involved.

Prior to the passage of the hiring and retention ordinance last fall, I do participate in professional conferences, and I wish that they had better advice for us, the experts had better advice for us at these conferences.

I also know that Chief Diaz, Deputy Mayor Harrell attend a lot of conferences and have spoken with a lot of people across the country.

My recommendations are not specific, but we are all in this.

What we're finding is that these challenges are universal at this point.

I did not mean to undermine the on-the-ground understanding of what's going on from our chief and our mayor.

I just was becoming aware that you have a network of folks that deal with this all the time too.

I'm sorry to interrupt.

Oh, no, I don't think that you interrupted at all.

Thank you.

Um, yes, I am.

I am part of that discussion.

I offer my suggestions.

And I think that we are, we are all putting in our best effort.

I don't have any specific, specific suggestions.

I don't know how to reach young people.

And I don't know how to make policing sound like a career that they might want to have, other than to talk about this great city.

to talk about the high standards that we have for our police officers and their commitment to public service, public safety.

So I think we need to tout the good work that we've already done and show people that they can come and do it with us and make their own communities safer.

Thanks.

Thank you.

On that note, just wondering, could you speak a little bit to how the new positions created in the Department of Human Resources last year to assist with police offer hiring, how they interact with the PSC?

That's a really good question.

So one of the positions is actually going to be on the public safety testing team, and that will be a second exams analyst who will has not we haven't made a final haven't had a final offer of employment accepted yet so that person has not started yet.

But they will increase the data analysis and reporting abilities of that team will be able to also jump in and.

work on the actual exams, this is sort of an all hands on deck team.

And so we simply need to, not simply, we also need to increase the capacity of this team to be able, since we have increased our commitment to test more frequently, we need to be able to up our manpower.

So that, and then there is a lot of other work that that person will do.

The other positions are really under the SHR umbrella.

So I don't oversee or manage their work, But I know that they will be working hand in hand with our team to facilitate communications, to actually, I think, do recruiting, although Kimberly Loving might be a better person to speak to their actual duties.

But so, you know, don't quote me on that.

But, you know, they're hired to dish with the recruits.

to add additional capacity to the recruiting function, and I think recruit in new ways.

So we will be working hand in hand with those people to not just support them and get them onboarded, but to educate them about our work and the boundaries around our work as well.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Thank you.

Appreciate you taking the time to share with us in the viewing public elements of your important work.

It's given us all, I think, a greater understanding of the complexity of just one small piece of the hiring process.

There's many, many more pieces, but appreciate that we're all rowing in the same direction to increase hiring.

There's a lot of focus on the vacancies at the Seattle Police Department.

The Seattle Fire Department has also lost historic numbers of firefighters.

And even though they have a bigger list to work with, there are a lot of vacancies that they need to fill associated with the great designation.

With that, if there are no additional questions, thank you again for joining us here today and congratulations on your reappointment.

Thank you.

Thank you all for your time and attention.

I really appreciate the opportunity and I hope you all have a good day.

The next Public Safety and Human Services Committee is scheduled for Tuesday, February 14th, 2023. Before we adjourn, are there any other comments from my colleagues?

Not seeing any.

The time is 1058 and we are adjourned.

Thank you.