Housing, Health, Energy, and Workers Rights Committee - Public Hearing 9/13/18

Well, good morning.

Today is Thursday, September 13, 2018, and I am Teresa Mosqueda, chair of the Housing, Health, Energy, and Workers' Rights Committee.

This is a special committee meeting that we are having to talk about the new appointee from the mayor's office to head up Seattle City Light, the largest department in Seattle, and we're excited to have with us Deborah Smith, who will be joining us to talk about her experience.

So we are...

Very excited to have this one agenda item in front of us today and look forward to hearing more from the community who has joined us over the last few months to talk about the need for steady leadership, fiscal responsibility, the need to invest in workplace frontline workers, to reform workplace culture, and to make sure that we continue to be the greenest energy economy department in the entire country.

we're also really excited about the opportunity to learn about your experience your leadership and the style of leadership that you brought to past um opera past experiences so before we get started why don't we go ahead and do public comment and then we will be joined by our city council members and i'll go through the expected timeline of the process here and we'll hear a little bit more from our colleagues.

By way of reminder, today is the first day that we will be having an opportunity to hear from Ms. Smith.

We will, that's okay, welcome.

Thank you very much, Vice Chair Juarez for joining us.

Great to see you.

you are just on time today we're going to actually focus on mrs smith's background philosophy vision and workforce issues we've divided up the questions and topics over the next two weeks next week on thursday september 20th we'll have a chance to actually talk about energy production energy environmental conservation customer service and governance and public engagement We submitted a robust set of questions to Ms. Smith, which included 34 questions.

If you can believe it or not, we tried to scale those down and really appreciate her thoughtful answers to half of those.

We will have the second round of those questions submitted to the council very soon.

All of the questions that we received so far have been posted on our website that we created specifically for this confirmation process.

And if you haven't had a chance yet to read her robust responses so far, I encourage you to do so.

You can find those questions and her responses at seattle.gov backslash council backslash issues.

We've put the timeline for the expected confirmation process there as well.

And again, just reminding folks, today is the first of two scheduled hearings.

The next one will be at 9.30 next week on September 20th.

We want this to be a deliberative, thoughtful, and thorough conversation.

We want to have an engaged conversation with the community, with frontline workers, with experts in the industry who spent the last few months really interviewing and engaged with multiple candidates, and Deborah rose to the top.

We want to know why, what vision she has for this department, and what we can expect in terms of a collaborative process with the mayor's office and with this council as the body that oversees Seattle City Light.

So if the committee feels comfortable after next Thursday, we will go ahead and move for a vote.

If for any reason we wanna have additional conversations, we have put a hold on the calendar for October 2nd, and we'll potentially engage in another committee discussion if needed and the final vote after that.

But if we do vote next week, then the final vote for this confirmation process will be on Monday, October 1st in full council.

So with that, I wanna make sure that people again have the website because it does have the dates that we have outlined so far.

Please go to seattle.gov backslash council backslash issues to find the full committee agenda for confirmation for Seattle City Lights next general manager, CEO, and also the robust responses that we've received to the questions so far.

At this point, I'd like to move into a public comment and then we will engage in a robust discussion with Ms. Smith.

So we will take public comments on all items that appear on today's agenda, and we only have one item.

So please make your comments directed to the vision that you'd like to see at City at All City Light, the questions and comments, maybe experience that you have regarding Ms. Smith's leadership, and keep your comments within two minutes, please, because we have a lot of folks signed up to testify.

If you have also participated in the months-long engagement process led by many of the leaders here in Seattle to vet various candidates, we'd love to hear your experience with that process as well.

And with that, the first person signed up to testify is going to be Sharon Nelson.

Welcome.

Thank you, Madam Chair, Council Member.

Thank you.

Just make sure that that is pulled up really close.

There.

Is that better?

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Okay.

Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here and testify on behalf of and endorse Deborah Smith as the next CEO, General Manager of Seattle City Light.

As Council Member Mosqueda knows, I was one of the three co-chairs of the Mayor's Advisory Committee THAT ADVISED HER ON THE SELECTION OF DEBORAH SMITH.

MY OTHER CO-CHAIRS COULD UNFORTUNATELY NOT BE HERE TODAY, BUT WILL BE, I THINK, ATTENDING SOME OF YOUR NEXT HEARINGS.

ALSO HERE TODAY ARE TWO KEY MEMBERS OF THE ULTIMATE, THE PEOPLE WHO SELECTED THE FINALISTS FOR MAYOR DURKIN TO CONSIDER, AND THEY ARE STEVE KOVAC and Mark Dodon, and I think they've signed up to testify.

So I'd just like to describe the process we engaged in.

The committee was composed of 22 members, broadly diverse members of our community, and The committee and the co-chairs devised what became our recruitment statement and our job description.

And during the discussion of how that job description should look, we landed up on the phrase, we want a transformational leader, Mayor Durkan said.

uttered that phrase first.

Deputy Mayor Mosley said he wanted someone who would be like John Stanford was for the Seattle School Board.

Somebody who could really take this utility into the next level of environmental excellence and operational excellence.

And so with those goal posts in mind, environment and operations, We hired the nationwide search firm of Korn Ferry.

Peter Bogan was our representative from that firm.

And we, the smaller search committee composed of seven people, spent three days interviewing 10 finalists.

We selected five finalists that went to the mayor.

And she, in turn, selected Deborah Smith.

We believe that we have found that transformational leader.

And I see I'm out of time, maybe out of town as well.

So thank you very much for your time.

Thank you very much.

And thank you for your leadership in sharing that robust process and your commitment to race and social justice during the interview process.

I really appreciate that, not only in the questions that you asked of the candidates, but in the selection of the firm.

Well, I should have said I've served 24 years on the Board of Consumer Reports.

I was chair for eight years, and I really believe in customer service.

So I really want to see that aspect of Seattle City Light become star-studded as well.

I love that.

Thank you.

Next, we'll have Johnny Bosch.

Thank you, Johnny Bosch with Northwest Energy Coalition.

Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the nomination of Deborah Smith to lead Seattle City Light.

Selecting a new general manager is a major responsibility of the council and we appreciate the council solicitation of questions and concerns from the community.

Deborah Smith comes to this process with an impressive resume of utility work and as a worthy candidate for the position and deserves a full and thoughtful interview.

The coalition would also like to thank Ms. Smith for meeting with some of our staff and other environmental advocates last week in initial discussions on salmon and wildlife.

We'd like to share some additional thoughts and concerns today.

We would urge the new general manager to maintain Seattle City Lights environmental officer position.

This position reflects Seattle City Lights commitment to protecting and promoting the environment in the energy sector.

Second, we would also expect Ms. Smith to continue the practice of meeting quarterly with the environmental advisory group, which includes clean tech, green buildings, and community-based organizations.

This outreach has been instrumental in building more positive relationships with the community.

Seattle has historically been committed to demand-side management programs that reduce peak load demands to ever-stronger appliance standards and to better building codes, to distributed generation programs, and to overall energy efficiency.

It's critical, we think, that City Light continue leadership and innovation with these programs even in the face of short-term load and revenue challenges.

Further, the rates through which Seattle City Light collects the revenue it needs to function should not punish the frugal or the poor who use little electricity.

We're looking for a leader who will explore and embrace progressive forward-looking rate structures that support all of Seattle's policies related to decarbonization, the environment, and low-income protection.

Finally, Seattle City Light owns and operates large and small hydroelectric projects and purchases some power from BPA.

The next CEO must commit to maintaining fish and wildlife protection as a top priority for the department and for the region.

That would include a commitment to actively promote the city's position on the Lower Snake River dams and support the department's position that the NEPA process currently underway should fairly consider all alternatives to protect salmon and orcas, including removal of the dams.

We look forward to the council's interview process, and we may have further comments later, but thank you for this opportunity.

And I've given my comments.

Excellent, thank you so much, Johnny, and thank you for your leadership as well in this industry, but also specifically focused on making sure community voice is heard constantly at the table.

We will look forward to some of those conversations and I think probably more of a focus on environmental justice issues at next week's meeting.

So we will make sure to grab that public testimony, share it with Ms. Smith, and look forward to the answers to some of those specific questions.

Thank you.

Next, we'll hear from Denise Nonesell.

Sorry about that, if you could correct me.

Thank you.

Good morning, and thank you.

Hello, my name is Denise Crownbell.

I'm co-chair of Seattle Silence Breakers and a current 18-year employee of Seattle City Light, and I'm here to comment on the GM and CEO selection process.

Two general managers ago, council discussed but did not implement metrics on which to evaluate Jorge Carrasco's reconfirmation four years later.

For Larry Weiss, some metrics were established, but I do not know what they were, and Larry was able to self-report his evaluation.

Seattle Silence Breakers thinks that some of the metrics should pertain to a demonstrated decrease in employee discrimination, harassment, and hostile work environment complaints and cases.

Data that this committee has requested from Seattle City Light once vetted should be a baseline as well as City Light employee responses to the recent citywide RSJI survey.

And another metric should address the Race and Social Justice Initiative.

And there are rank and file employees on the core team and other RSJI and affinity groups who would have specific metrics to suggest for that.

THESE CRITERIA SHOULD BE INDEPENDENTLY EVALUATED AND NOT BE A SELF-REPORTED ASSESSMENT BY THE GM.

THE GM'S ANNUAL BONUS SHOULD NOT BE OR SORRY, SHOULD BE WITHHELD OR DRASTICALLY DECREASED IF ANY OF THESE EMPLOYEE CRITICAL MEASURES ARE NOT MET.

WE HOPE THAT COUNCIL WILL ESTABLISH THESE RECONFIRMATION CRITERIA PRIOR TO THE CONFIRMATION HEARING.

and that Seattle Silence Breakers are available and willing to work with council and the mayor's office on this criteria.

Speaking for myself, I met Deborah as part of a union group that interviewed the five final candidates, and Deborah was my top choice.

Speaking on behalf of the Seattle Silence Breakers, we look forward to working with Deborah if she is confirmed as the next City Light GM, and to change the work, excuse me, to change the workplace culture at Seattle City Light.

So to one that values the contributions and input of all employees and provide a safe and welcoming work environment.

We want to put the days of fear and retaliation by our own department behind us and make City Light the model for all city departments and that time is now.

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Denise.

And please extend our appreciation to the Seattle Silence Breakers as well.

I'm very excited to hear about your personal recommendation that speaks volumes.

And I also really appreciate your call for specific metrics.

If we may also have a copy of your presentation, we will share that as well with Ms. Smith.

So we can follow up on that as well on our next confirmation discussion, if not today.

Thank you very much.

Next, we'll hear from Steve Kovach.

Welcome, Steve.

Council members, thank you for this opportunity.

I was a member of the smaller interview panel with Sharon and David and Mark.

I think, you know, first I have to thank SDHR, Pam Inch, Nina Park, AND TERRY WHITMAN WHO KEPT US ON TASK THE WHOLE TIME.

THEY DID A FANTASTIC JOB.

YOU WERE IN SOME OF THE OTHER MEETINGS.

THEY JUST RAN THEM PERFECTLY.

LOCAL 77, I'M A BUSINESS REP FOR THE INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF ELECTRICAL WORKERS.

WE APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE PART OF THIS PROCESS.

DEBORAH SMITH.

OUR UNION MEMBERS THAT WENT AND MET WITH HER WHEN SHE WAS HERE, THEY CAME BACK AND SAID SHE'S OUR NUMBER ONE CHOICE.

I REALLY BELIEVE THAT THE COMMITTEE AND THE MAYOR HAVE GOTTEN THIS RIGHT.

WE LOOK FORWARD TO THE CULTURAL CHANGE THAT WE BELIEVE YOU WILL BRING TO CITY LIGHT THAT IS SORELY NEEDED.

I WORKED THERE FOR 33 YEARS.

been through, I think, eight general managers.

There's one that stood out, and that was Randy Hardy.

And I had made the comment to our other panel members that the workers would walk through a wall for Randy.

And after we finished all our interview process, one of the members came up and said, is there a candidate that we interviewed that you feel that way about?

And I said, Deborah Smith.

And I really think we look forward to working with you And again, I think the culture change at City Light has to change and really change once and for all.

So thank you.

Thank you so much, Mr. Kovach.

And thank you to the members of IBEW 77 for your incredible work.

We know that public safety is paramount and workplace safety is critical.

And from the work that you've expressed, the words that you expressed, I'm heartened to know that this was the top candidate from members of IBEW.

So thank you so much.

The next person is Mark.

Welcome, Mark Davison.

Thank you so much, and I appreciate the opportunity to be here.

And I want to echo the thanks to the HR folks for making this thing work and driving us forward and getting it done.

We spent a lot of time during what's usually peak vacation time, like July 5th, 6th, and 7th in meetings.

And some of us resisted that, but it happened anyway.

So I also want to see Steve walk through a wall before the meeting is over today.

So my comments are echoing on Sharon's and the process we used.

You know, the criteria that rose for me as we went through the process were expertise and knowledge of the electric utility business.

It really helps to know this business because it's really complicated.

Markets are very complicated.

Getting Seattle City Light out of the financial pressures requires understanding that.

The ability to achieve transformational change within the utility and with the workforce, we've talked about that.

A vision of what the future for the utility and any utility looks like in a really changing world.

And the ability to work within a complex governance structure with city council, with the mayor, with all the interests, energy coalition, et cetera.

We looked at a lot of candidates, and as people said, Deborah rose to the top, and I'm really thrilled about that.

I also have a lot of contacts in public power and do some work in that space.

And once this process was over, I was able to check in with people and had met Deborah Briefly before.

And what I hear back is she cares a lot about her workers.

She noted writing notes to every one of them at times during the year.

She cares about her customers.

She puts them first.

She cares a lot about public power and its role in our future from an environmental, social, and sustainability point of view.

She cares about the environment.

She cares about equity.

works and led a utility that has a lot of diverse folks in it from an economic point of view.

So I think she's going to be great.

I'm looking forward to working with her and seeing the transformational change and the improvements to the utility's performance.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So we do have a few more minutes.

If there's folks who wanted to testify and didn't get a chance to sign up yet, please make your way to the microphone.

Amy Bowles, I saw you raise your hand.

Welcome.

Thank you, co-chair for the Seattle City Union Coalition and PTE 17.

Thank you, thank you council members.

It's an honor to be here this morning and I apologize that I arrived late, but it's so great to see you again, Deborah.

I really enjoyed talking with you at our panel discussion a few weeks back and I'm just as pleased as everyone else is with the mayor's decision to offer your appointment to the council.

And I'm really excited and optimistic about what you can do in terms of workplace culture change within Seattle City Light.

We talked about that a little bit during our discussion.

And I'm very encouraged that the Seattle Silence Breakers also feels optimistic about what you can do as I do.

Local 17 would love to be a partner with you directly and with your staff and look forward to our future relationship and partnership.

So thank you again for this opportunity.

Thank you very much, Amy.

Amy, I thought you were saying thank you to me, Debra.

I was just getting ready to say it's good to see you again, Amy, from the last...

But you're not talking to me.

Great to see you too.

Of course, thank you also.

I literally started to say thank you.

Multiple Debras here today.

Anybody else would like to share anything?

Okay.

Well, we do welcome public comment at not only today, at our next meeting next Thursday.

We've also received a number of emails and many of which also spoke to the salmon restoration issues, energy conservation issues.

Please keep your emails, calls, and questions coming in.

We will have a chance to potentially revisit some of those next Thursday.

We'll try to package some of the responses that we've received so that you also have a sense of where those questions and maybe concerns are coming from and then maybe get a chance to address those directly next week.

With that, thank you all for the time that you spent, especially on the July 4th week, doing major interviews.

We know that the full body was around 25 people?

22 people.

I had the opportunity to join most of those conversations, and it was a room full of industry experts, environmental justice leaders, workforce leaders, union representatives, elected members like myself and Deputy Mayor Mosley, who we'll hear from in a moment, and really I think the thought leaders in our community who want to make sure that Seattle City Light is responding to the pressures of becoming the greenest energy economy leader we know we are one of the leaders right now and want to stay that way we also want to be responsive to the need to be focused on environmental justice and workplace culture changes and i think that that room was an excellent way for us to show by example what it means to bring leaders to the table to make decisions that are informed based on the community the frontline workers and environmental justice leaders so i'm excited for this conversation let's get this started And if you could read into the record the first item of business, and if we could have Deborah Smith and Deputy Mayor Mosley join us at the table, that'd be great.

Agenda item one, appointment of Deborah Smith as General Manager and Chief Executive Officer of Seattle City Light for public hearing, briefing, and discussion.

Wonderful.

Welcome.

And Asha, if you'd like to join us too.

Asha, if you could introduce yourself first, as this is one of the first committee meetings you've had a chance to be in, wearing the energy hat for central staff.

Yeah.

Good job, Asha.

I'm glad to see you here.

Asha Venkatraman, Council Central staff.

I'm just taking, staffing this confirmation since our colleague Tony Kilduff just retired.

Okay, wonderful.

Congratulations.

Deputy Mayor Mosley, if you would like to say some words and kick us off, that would be very welcomed.

Thank you.

Chair Mosqueda, Vice Chair Juarez, great to be here with you today for this purpose.

Mayor Durkan is very pleased to submit to you Deborah Smith for confirmation as the General Manager of Seattle City Light.

Deborah will bring 23 years of utility experience to City Light, the first 17 with Eugene Water and Electric Board, E-Web, the largest public utility in Oregon, rising to the position of Assistant General Manager.

The last five years, she has served as the general manager of the Central Lincoln Public Utility District.

In her career, she has improved customer service and achieved the highest ever customer service satisfaction despite rate pressures.

She has improved budget and financial planning processes to increase its value in rate setting.

She has implemented a performance management system that includes strategic planning, employee goal setting, and utility-wide results management.

She has a strong ethic in environmental stewardship.

She has reshaped union relationships, implemented interest-based bargaining, reprioritized worker safety, and implemented training programs to manage employment risk.

And at E-Web, she was responsible for hydroelectric generation and served on the Public Power Council Executive Committee, making her well-versed in power market issues in the Northwest.

So Deborah Weebly brings the background, experience, and skills exactly suited to lead Seattle City Light to become the utility we all want and need it to be in the future.

Thank you very much.

Well, thank you, and welcome, Deborah.

Thank you for joining us.

We heard some important criteria that the search committee was looking for.

They wanted someone who had environmental excellence, operational excellence, leadership in their past.

They wanted someone who'd be a transformational change leader, and they have selected you.

The mayor has selected you.

If you could give us a little bit of background, and then myself and Council Member Juarez, I know, have a number of questions.

Sure, it was a little overwhelming listening to all that, I have to say, so I really appreciate it.

Do you need me to be Deb because I could be Debbie?

Not Debbie, but I'm okay if I can.

Yeah, I'm not Debbie either.

I got you on that one.

Okay, I thought that would be true.

You can just say Queen Deborah.

Okay, great.

Okay, that works.

I'm just kidding.

So thanks for taking time to talk with me today.

I really appreciate it.

I was thrilled to be nominated by Mayor Durkan to be the next general manager.

of Seattle City Light and I'm anxious to get started.

This is a thoughtful, arduous process and it's a great introduction to public service in Seattle so I appreciate that as well.

I've received lots of congratulatory emails and texts these last few weeks and one that really stands out to me came from an old and dear friend who I'd lost track of over the last years, and she said she remembered years ago when my husband Dale and I said that Seattle was where we dreamed of retiring or having a second home, and she was so thrilled that in fact here we were.

And so I would say that the opportunity to actually make Seattle my home and provide leadership to Seattle City Light employees and to contribute to keeping Seattle itself in the leadership position she's earned is more than I could have hoped for.

So I really appreciate that.

I look forward to answering your questions today and moving towards confirmation.

I can just share a couple of quick things because there'll be repeats throughout my questions or my answers.

So, you know, there's a few things about me.

What do I believe in?

And what things have really stuck with me over the years?

And, you know, I believe that all people wanna be treated in the same ways.

I think that's true no matter where we are in our lives, but I certainly think when we are in a relationship with our public utility or our community, where particularly in the public utility sector where we don't get to choose our provider, our provider's chosen for us, I think that holds us to a higher standard and I take that standard really seriously and I've always felt and talked about the need to actually do even more because our customers don't get to choose with their dollars than if they could.

So what I believe is that all people want to be heard, they want to be treated with kindness and respect, And they want to know that they matter.

And I think that's true of our customers, our employees, our stakeholders and community members.

And so that's the, you know, basically that's the philosophy that I bring to my work.

I look for ways to engage.

I look for ways to work collaboratively.

I look for ways to give people voices.

And I appreciate opportunities that I have and that I've been given to have a voice and to sometimes help move change by being at the table.

So that's a philosophy that you'll hear repeated.

The other thing is that I believe in really three things.

I believe in transparency, accountability, and intentionality.

So I, you know, I've been in the public sector for 23 years and I believe the public has a right to see the work that's done on their behalf.

And so that's really important to me.

I believe in holding myself and others accountable and I do start with me.

And I look forward to the opportunity to work with all of you, my accountability partners in the future.

And I believe in being intentional.

So what that means to me is that things do change.

And in my written responses, I think I mentioned that.

But, you know, projects change, circumstances change, the environment changes that we're working in.

And sometimes that can derail us or cause us to shift plans.

And that's okay.

But to me, that is very tightly coupled with transparency.

So we're intentional about the changes that we're making, and then we're very transparent.

about them as we make them.

So those are things that my staff will tell you I can often be, they might say that I almost harp on at times, but it's really important to me.

And I think those are the three things that contribute most to earning and then keeping trust with the people that we work with.

So I guess I look forward to answering your questions and moving towards confirmation.

And thank you again for your time.

Thank you again for your interest in this opportunity.

Thanks for engaging in the question and answers that we have received so far, and we look forward again to receiving the next round of answers soon.

We will definitely post those online, but I want to say thank you for your robust answers so far.

One of the things that you did note in the responses that we've received so far is this continuing theme about transparency, which I really appreciate.

Having been chair of this committee now for 10 months, one of the things that I think is most important is that we get a heads up early if there are issues on the horizon so we can proactively respond to those as a collaborative team, recognizing we're all on the same side and trying to make sure that the customers and businesses, residents are feel that their interests are being reflected in the leadership and frontline workers.

As a public utility, it's really important for me that we rebuild trust with the public and with frontline workers.

One of the things that has caught me by surprise in the last week was news that J.D.

Power audit has decreased our rating from, I believe, second out of 14 of the nation's public utilities to seventh out of 14. And I just found that out.

What I would love to hear from you as you think about transparency, accountability, and intentionality, which I very much appreciate you emphasizing those and underscoring those, is how maybe you intend to reflect that in your leadership.

One of the other things you said in your question air was that You described your management style as setting a tone that you, quote, set a clear tone at the top, establishing expectations, supporting people, and insisting on accountability, end quote.

I think it's really important to hear more about how you would apply these skills if confirmed and how you will engage in the management chain that is at City Light and engage with us on City Council.

also clearly with the mayor's office, but us on city council to give us a heads up early when there's issues on the horizon that we can proactively work on and maybe how you would have responded once you received the J.D.

Power and associate audit, for example.

Sure.

And of course, I don't have any information about the J.D.

Power audit, but I agree with you.

So one of my, you know, again, one of my rules for the folks that I work with that report into me is no surprises.

So I feel the same way.

So, you know, I give people, part of my philosophy is I really engage and lean into my subject matter experts.

I'm a generalist.

And I often say I'm never the smartest person at the table, and I shouldn't be because if I've got the right people in the room, there's always someone that knows more about a subject or a topic.

And what I'm good at is bringing people together and the synopsing of different pieces of information.

So that said, I count a lot on the trust that I have with those folks, and it's important in order for me to continue to trust them, not being caught off guard myself and not being surprised is critical.

And so that's how I work with the people that I'm in turn accountable for.

I feel the same way.

I sometimes use an analogy with my staff and my board and I have discussed this is, you know, you're driving down the road and you're looking in the rear view mirror And if I'm driving the car and my staff is getting smaller, there's a problem.

So, you know, we need to, you know, I don't need to make all the decisions, but I need to be really clear about how they're being made.

So for me, you know, right now, of course, I don't know the structure of the city or of Seattle City Light or what kind of, what the reporting protocols are, but I can tell you right now, I provide information to my board about on industry trends on a weekly basis and I report out anything that I think might catch them off guard, I report it out immediately.

So again, I never want them to be in a position where a customer contacts a board member with a problem and the board member wasn't already aware.

So sometimes it's all of them, sometimes it's the individual board member based on the location or with a customer issue.

But again, I view that as the CEO or the GM there a big part of my responsibility is to filter and to know what my board needs to know, and that's probably one of my biggest roles.

And I'll give you an example that's just playing out right now.

In fact, I think this memo's gonna go out to my board today, We've engaged in a project called Conservation Voltage Regulation.

It's a cool project.

It has to do with AMI.

It's something that, you know, perhaps City Light will look at in the future.

And we actually engaged in the project about four years ago.

We went through a pretty arduous process with Bonneville.

so that we could apply it.

Basically, it's what I call it is it allows you to turn down the voltage of the system, which allows all customers to experience savings, energy efficiency savings, but it's passive.

It doesn't require action or investment on their part.

And we got some great public accolades for our work in that area from APPA and others.

And as we've been working to roll the project out, we've learned a lot.

And so what that learning has done is it's caused us to slow the project appropriately and to be more thoughtful about how we implement it and the pace.

And so what I've said to staff is we need to give the board a full report and an update on that.

Nothing's gone wrong.

Nothing's off the rails.

The financial commitment is as expected.

But there's a detailed memo going out to the board in the board run today or tomorrow that gives them an update and tells them what our expectations are and next steps and then commits to coming back to them after we complete some additional work and training this fall with a new schedule.

So, again, that's just an example of saying they committed to a project and I want to keep them informed so they know where the project's at.

I appreciate that.

So I will alternate with our Vice Chair, Council Member Morris.

I have a few questions teed up, but I want to kind of stay on track so you're not bouncing back and forth.

First of all, I want to thank you.

I know that Chairwoman Mosqueda presented you 34 questions, and six pages, 34 questions divided into seven sections.

And thank you for answering the first three, which I understand took up like 21 pages of just, is like, look like a law review exam, but anyway.

And those first three, which I'm guessing questions four, five, and six, and seven will get to, that you're gonna be responding to, correct?

Okay, so let me just, just because this is the wonk in me, when I was going through the questions and the answers and knowing what was coming, these six pages, 34 questions divided into seven sections.

Number one was background, number two was philosophy and vision, number three was workforce, which you've answered then now.

we'll be getting the remainder of your responses to energy production, energy and environmental conservation, customer service, governance, and public engagement.

And I'm glad that our chairwoman had the foresight to see that the three top questions were put first, that these are the most important, I think, to a lot of us and a lot of the viewing public.

Because within those questions, and I'm guessing the answers are online, this is posted, you do address the issues of race and social justice.

And you do address the issue of workforce labor and unions.

And I'm gonna loop back to those later.

So I wanna just get right to two issues that the chairwoman brought up because this is, and again, thank you for meeting me with me yesterday.

We had a chance to go over some of these issues.

So some of this is for the viewing public and for the public to see in the spirit of transparency that we did talk and I had some issues and you responded and I'd like to give you an opportunity to respond again.

I have two just in general questions and then I have a few specific ones.

The first one on the workplace culture.

In this committee on February 15th, Chairwoman addressed the issue of workplace culture and the silence breakers.

And I was glad to see Amy here and we had some other people here from local PTS 17, which represented, I believe, 700 employees.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

And we had Mr. Jim Baggs here and Devonda Johnson, and there was a lot of back and forth, and I would encourage you to watch that video if you haven't had a chance.

And so I would like to have you respond to us about that issue because, as you know, beyond the Me Too movement, this Silence Breakers, this issue has been going on a long time.

And I think, and I was looking at my notes from last time in February, and I don't have it.

I wrote it down somewhere, but the last time that a lot of those procedures and harassment, all those issues were updated was in the 90s.

And so I'd like your response to that, and then I'm going to ask you kind of a wonky question about billing and backlog.

Oh, okay, great.

Well, thank you.

You know, and first of all, I would say that You know, I'm a woman who's worked in an industry that has long been dominated, that is certainly changing right now, but long been dominated by white men.

And even before I joined the electric utility industry as a young woman, I'm almost 58 years old.

I think I said that in there.

I'm not a woman that is afraid to share my age.

So I'm going on 58. And when early in my career, I had my own horror story of gender, Discrimination and out and out harassment.

And that was a tough thing and it was at a time when there wasn't support and there wasn't even, I was maybe in my early 20s and I did not have the slightest idea how to deal with it.

So number one, I'm super appreciative that as a society in general and the city of Seattle and silence breakers and the commitment to making it safe for people to come forward.

I think there's some statistics out there.

Maura told me 84 to 87% of gender harassment and discrimination complaints aren't reported.

And I think we touched on that yesterday.

So understanding even how big the issue is is a real challenge.

And it's something that, as a society, we have to continue to make it safer so that people can come forward and have a voice.

So that goes back to my early comments about doing what I can to ensure that people have a voice for things.

So what I think is true is I talked about this with respect to safety as well, but I know the organization over the last few years, leadership challenges make it hard.

It also in some ways causes people to come forward and say, this is my opportunity to help make a change.

And I applaud the people, again, here who have been engaged in that work.

I think a lot of the right things are being done here, but I think there's obviously still opportunity.

I know you've scheduled listening sessions or City Light has scheduled listening sessions to try and really understand what the problems are and what the concerns are and then develop additional strategies to deal with those.

I understand there's an anonymous hotline, assigned employee relations staff, et cetera, but obviously it's not enough.

You know, the issue is taking the information, learning from it.

I've seen some statistics, but I haven't had a chance to talk to the people.

So at the end of the day, I need to talk and understand what is it that prevents people from feeling safe and able to come forward and participate in making the change.

And that would really be the first thing I would need to do.

Just briefly.

It's beyond just, we have actual lawsuits, and I'm sure you'll learn about the lawsuits and which ones are pending and which ones were settled.

So I'll leave it at that, and you'll know that.

So besides Seattle City Light, just be- Before you go on to billing, though, may I do follow up?

Oh, good.

I'm going to stay here then.

I might even hold off on the wonky billing one.

But anyway, besides this being a safe place, if you will, another issue, I should add that So I'm coming up on three years that I've been the vice chair for Seattle City Light.

Council Member Sawant was the former chair, and now we're under the leadership of Council Member or Chairwoman, Council Member Mosqueda.

So I've seen a lot in the last three years.

So providing a safe space, yes.

Second piece of that is, and you mentioned it, and we've talked about this, and the chairwoman has brought this up as well, is the apprenticeship program and having access and opportunity for women and people of color.

And almost the three years that I've been here, those numbers have not moved very much.

If there are 40 slots, maybe two or three are women, and even lower are people of color.

And that has just not been...

it has not been good for us as far as progress.

And granted, again, I've only been doing this two and a half, three years, so I would like to know from you if you had an opportunity to see the statistics on the apprenticeship program and making it more inclusive, more accessible, and more robust.

No, I don't have any specific information about the apprenticeship program.

I do know that, and you may have read, I mean, I did do some work on that at E-Web.

We had a diversity in the trades group.

We were very focused on not only racial inclusion in apprenticeships and other positions, but in women in non-traditional roles.

And it was really hard.

I shared yesterday with Deputy Mayor Mosley, I actually have a picture in my office in Newport of a Seattle City Light all-female crew because that was something that Back in the day, we looked at Seattle City Light as the leader and someone who was way out ahead.

And I don't believe, I believe, I know that it continues to be a real issue.

I think that, I do believe that technology and tools that are available have made it easier for women in many roles.

And it is a tough environment.

So I would need to understand a lot more about how the apprenticeship program works here and what the history is before I could really opine on that.

But I do, it is a concern.

It is an issue.

It is a hard nut to crack.

Yeah, it's just interesting.

My two utilities I've worked at, so when I worked at E-Web, E-Web chose to adopt all gender-neutral position titles.

So instead of having linemen, they were line technicians.

And that was, again, that was a hope and an intent to take away a gender-based stigma.

When I came to Central Lincoln, what I've learned in talking with other women since is, Many women, certainly not all, but many women, they work so hard to become a lineman that that title means something to them.

And so that's just an example of how hard it is to find a balance that not only supports people in success, but meets them where they're at in their own stuff.

follow up to your question.

So this was the second question I had on my list too, because I think, as you can tell, this is a top priority for our committee.

When the strategic plan first came to this body, the concept of addressing workplace culture was not reflected in the strategic plan.

And this committee included it as a strategic initiative that needed to be addressed over the next six years in the strategic plan for Seattle City Lights.

Looking at the data, and I think you've had a chance or you will be pouring over the race and social justice survey that just came out where the statistics are pretty telling in terms of harassment and intimidation that women face at Seattle City Lights, specifically women of color.

The statistics, I think, paint a picture of what people are experiencing on a daily basis.

You heard from Seattle Silence Breakers today that they're interested in specific metrics.

And I know that you need a chance to talk to folks.

You mentioned making sure that you have conversations with folks on the front line.

I think it's critical in order for us to actually make sure that change is adhered to and that it is rooted in the experience of people who've experienced intimidation and harassment.

So I appreciate that.

Can you give us a general sense of who you would have at the table?

What specific metrics you might be interested in looking at as an initial starting place?

and also a better sense of why you think some of these folks aren't coming forward, given that we know a complaint-based system is not reflective of the actual experience on the ground level.

Any indication of how you may begin this process so that we can have some tangible footholds to see where you would start?

So I would suggest, and I think we probably all believe or share a belief, that in general people don't come forward both, as I said, because they don't feel safe, but because they fear recrimination of some sort.

That's generally the reason that people stay silent.

And so, you know, certainly creating a...

a system and i don't know what that would be i mean we but a a place where folks can bring their information forward uh and and anonymity is great but anonymity doesn't allow people to heal and move forward so it's it's it's more around an absolute commitment and some form of outside i think um a control point so that people can come forward work through their issues and ultimately still know that their job is intact and that they will be held intact and respected as people.

So I think there's different, you and I talked about some of those kinds of things yesterday and things that are certainly being considered, and I think that's important.

And I need to understand, again, more of it and understand the data.

And I haven't been able to see the actual survey data.

I've seen the numbers, the high-level statistical numbers, but those are numbers and those aren't people.

And I would imagine that the listening sessions that I know that are scheduled hopefully will be a place where there's more anecdotal information available that maybe we'll begin to get at that question.

I think that would be a place to learn about that is in those listening sessions, and I believe those are coming up this month, and they're in play.

I think that at the end of the day, as a public utility, so I think I would come at this two ways.

I would say number one, I do believe that all employees have a right to work for a supervisor who values them and appreciates them.

We don't all, I usually use the analogy that says I don't have to want to go out to dinner with everyone at night, But if you look to me for leadership, then you should know I care about you, and I'm very vested in your best interest and your future.

And obviously, when people are being intimidated or harassed, they don't have that, and that's not right ever.

So start there.

And then I will also say that, you know, maybe this will be a segue to, you know, billing issues, but, you know, as a public utility, we're responsible to our customer owners.

And we are responsible, as I said, to providing outstanding customer service.

And you can't do that if you don't have employees, outstanding employees who feel safe and who feel able to come to work every day in a non-distracted way and do their best for their customer owners.

And so not only is it the right thing and the only way to run any business, but it is also the only way to provide the customer service value that I know City Light wants to deliver, and I know that the city and the mayor and the council is also interested in seeing.

Excellent.

Thank you.

Council Member Morris, I would be very interested in the wonky questions around billing.

Would you like to kick off that and I can add to it?

I hate to disappoint you, Chairwoman.

I was going to bounce over the billing question and let Debra also know I'm older than her, so you know that.

I told my husband yesterday that I thought you and I were about the same age.

Oh, you did?

Okay.

Okay.

We talked about this, and I don't want to do like a gotcha thing, but we teed this up yesterday to talk about, and I want to just get right to it.

This is the environmental question.

As you know, a letter was sent to the chairwoman and to the mayor dated September 11th, that had to do with the salmon and the snake, Columbia River and the dams.

And as you know, the governor of Washington and the Washington state congressional delegation in December of 2017 and February of 2018 both opposed House Resolution 3144, including the governor of Oregon.

And you and I talked about what that meant.

And so I looked at the letter.

It had 10 signatories, and they're all your basic and very valuable environmental groups.

And we talked about what that bill was and what your role was at the Board of Directors for the Northwest River Partners.

And so I wanted to give you an opportunity, because I know that you met with some of these groups, to talk about what that means as far as salmon protection, restoration, and what that bill was when all of our delegation opposed this bill.

And then I'm going to loop back to the relationship with the tribes and the government-to-government relationship we have with them, including City Light on a lot of land.

and more in particular with the Muckleshoot Nation.

So I'll let you go ahead.

Okay, great.

Well, I appreciate the opportunity to clarify.

And no, I want to assure you, first of all, that I have a strong environmental ethic and Seattle's progressive position on environmental issues and your commitment to doing the right thing for our physical environment.

Those are some of the things that are some of the primary reasons I'm attracted to Seattle.

So I would say that I'm not interested in coming to Seattle to change the environmental ethic.

I'm interested in coming to Seattle because of the environmental ethics.

So please know that.

at the onset.

And as I said in my opening remarks, I believe it's always easier to influence change from a seat at the table and not from the sidelines.

So I joined the River Partners Board as a way of providing some diversity to a group that at that point was very eastern Washington and Idaho centric.

So from the time Judge Simon ruled on the biological opinion in 2016, I have advocated for change in approach from River Partners and my position on the board afforded me that voice and I appreciated that.

The path from there to now has been slow and long and change is sometimes hard to see but I believe that by calendar year end we will see a pivot in the approach River Partners is taking and we'll see an organization that is far more focused on education and talking about the value of hydropower, which, as we all know, is hugely important for us.

So I'm a long-term public servant who works for elected officials, and my job includes supporting and advocating for their policy positions.

I did that at E-Web, I do that at Central Lincoln, and I would do that at City Light.

During my tenure at Central Lincoln, I worked closely with the board of directors to identify solutions that balance the dual priorities of environmental stewardship with economic growth and affordability.

Indeed, the customers that we serve at the coast are economically far more disadvantaged than Oregon as a whole, and so we're very mindful and my board is very mindful of rate impacts.

Healthy salmon and steelhead, on the other hand, commercial fishing is a huge economic driver for the coast.

Healthy salmon and steelhead populations are essential to the local economy and the Native American tribes in the Pacific Northwest, and those are things that we value and hold dear.

Central Lincoln, as an organization, sought to prioritize policy solutions that would incentivize collaboration over litigation.

And consistent with that principle, while imperfect, my board felt like the concept behind H.R.

3144, particularly as it was initially introduced or conceived, made some sense.

And, Councilmember, you pointed out a good period of time passed between when the bill was originally discussed, introduced, and then ultimately heard this last spring, and it morphed over that period of time.

The thought as it was being considered initially was that by temporarily putting in place a federal fish plan or biological opinion that was based I believe at the time on the what many thought was the best science of the Obama administration, that federal agencies would have the opportunity to focus on the court-ordered NEPA process without being distracted by ongoing contentious litigation.

And in my capacity as CEO of Central Lincoln PUD and as a board member of Northwest River Partners, I want to go on the record as saying I fully support a robust NEPA process, and I agree that the process must include an honest evaluation of breaching, bypassing, or removing one or more of the Snake River dams, so I'm very comfortable with that.

Although the version of legislation that was ultimately introduced would have precluded that evaluation.

That was not my intent.

And I will say that in my conversations and in the information and the materials that the environmental community here has been gracious to provide, I've learned a lot just in the last couple of weeks, and I appreciate the education.

So I believe that the Columbia River is a cherished resource that provides the Northwest with the multipurpose benefits of affordable, reliable, and carbon-free electricity, flood control, navigation, and recreation.

And as stewards of this great asset, if confirmed, I look forward to working with the Seattle City Council and the city's key stakeholders to identify practical solutions to tough policy problems.

And lastly, I would say, you know, I'm a collaborative leader, so I don't have a heavy hand, and I'm solutions-focused.

And I used the analogy yesterday, I think about Aikido, so moving people by moving with them, and that tends to be a way I approach problem-solving.

So I consider litigation a last resort, and even then, one that typically falls short.

And I look forward to collaborating with the new folks in Seattle, including the environmental community, and really enjoyed the conversation and the discussion that we had last week and some follow-up discussions I've had with folks since then.

I have two follow-ups, and then I'm going to focus back on the second question I asked you.

So thank you for meeting with, my understanding is you met with the Sierra Club and Earth Justice and those folks, and you talked about...

Yeah.

Save our salmon.

Save our salmon, yes.

Save our salmon, great.

Those are all the 10 signatories to the letter dated September 11th, 2018. So let me just go right to what you said about environmental ethics.

And this is just some background here, and then I want to dive into what's specific to the city of Seattle.

and certainly the region.

The United States Supreme Court just ruled on the Culverts case, and that was a hard-won case that started when I was in the governor's office 17, 18 years ago.

And the tribes won that case.

And one of the issues was, and will continue to be, is that the state of Washington is responsible for cleaning up and making safe the culverts that they put in place for salmon restoration, to take care of our salmon.

That is going to be a big issue, not only in Indian country, which is quite frankly all of this country, but I'm just saying in particular, it will be a political, it will be an environmental issue.

It'll be an administrative issue.

It'll be a leadership issue for Seattle City Light.

So saying that, and we talked a little bit about this yesterday, my understanding is that you do understand that tribes have a government-to-government relationship with the executive and certainly with the city of Seattle.

And we do have native communities in my committee.

There you will find that Muckleshoot, Suquamish, Upper Skagit, Swinomish, and Sauk, and if I'm missing a tribe, I'm sure Mara will correct me, she's out there.

A lot of these agreements with Seattle City Light either came as negotiation or out of litigation or court ordered.

And they will continue because a lot of these a lot of the land that the City Light owns on these rivers and their duty to protect them, the tribes have a treaty right and it's co-management.

So I would like to hear from you from what I've heard from tribal leaders giving me a call and some of the people that work for tribes, including their biologists, what your philosophy is on working with tribes.

And I know you mentioned that you did some work with the Siletz tribe, which is great.

They also have a great casino.

So if you could follow up on that, that'd be great.

It's funny because my husband is actually doing some work now for the American Indian Higher Education Consortium, and he's traveling around the country, and he stays at a lot of casinos right now.

So that's been really interesting for him, and work that you'd probably enjoy talking to him about.

So I totally, yes, I totally understand the sovereign nation, the concept of sovereignty, and the importance of dealing with our tribal communities as...

as entities, standalone entities of their own.

And while at Central Lincoln, we don't serve the reservation of the Siletz Indians, we do serve parts of the town.

And so we work with tribal leadership and have a good relationship and work hard to find ways that we can Support and be part of the community in doing activities that are meaningful to those folks.

So, you know, there's a lot, as you mentioned.

There's a large...

Oregon does not have, as you reminded me yesterday, Oregon certainly does not have...

the number of tribes or the same.

The population is not as it is in Washington state, but I will say that at the coast, there's a large, the tribes are really hugely, huge economic leaders in the coastal economy and in the coastal, I don't want to say politics because they're not, but they are, I guess, revered leaders.

Every year Oregon puts on, the Oregon legislature puts on an Oregon Coastal Caucus, and there is always a large focus on tribal issues because they are so impactful for people up and down the coast.

So I would say that.

The other thing I would say is that when I was at E-Web, For many years, I had the environmental department that worked and reported into me, and this is a question that maybe we'll talk about more next week because it's more about relicensing, but I was in charge of the relicensing of the Carmen Smith project, which was E-Web's largest hydroelectric project, and we went through a very long, drawn-out, you and I talked a little bit about the FERC negotiation process, but we had a settlement agreement that, and this was in 2008, we had actually come up at the onset of that process and come up and talked with folks at Seattle City Light because they had had similar success at Boundary and that was something we wanted to talk about how that process worked and how they were successful and we did.

So we had, there were three tribes that we worked with.

They didn't have prescriptive rights but we brought them to the table and when we completed the agreement They were signers to the settlement agreement and we developed a good relationship.

We were very focused on their interests and their needs.

And so I look forward to learning a lot more about that.

Maura did send me a briefing memo this morning about 10 minutes before I got here.

I think that'll be some of my homework between now and next week, and I think I'm going to attempt to meet with the city's tribal liaison this afternoon, and I look forward to really learning a lot.

Well, let me just give you some words of advice.

The 29 tribes in Washington state and the seven tribes in the state of Oregon all share one thing, but I think the 29 tribes have been the most aggressive in this state under US v. Washington.

and that the tribes don't have to be on a reservation to have a treaty right to a clean river.

That has been upheld more than 50 times by the Bolt decision, Bolt 1 and Bolt 2. So you will have a lot of more than just inviting tribes to the table.

They go beyond just consultation because of the government-to-government relationship.

In my time in the mayor's or governor's office, I think, and this is just a quick side note, why this is so important, because like you said, litigation is always the last thing that you want to do.

One of my very first briefings with Governor Lowry, I was sitting at the table with all the tribes from the Columbia River, including the Oregon tribes.

And I thought I was really smart because I had a law degree and a bunch of other things, and I knew what I was talking about.

But the meeting started with the, I can't tell you the name of the companies on the Columbia River because they're still there, as referring to the Columbia River as the hydro power source, whereas the tribes, including Yakima and Warm Springs and all those tribes, referred to the tribe, to the river, as the giver of life.

And so I learned early on there's two ways that people look at the environment, and But as a politician, and now as an elected, and you certainly, if you have this job as a leader, are going to have to be able to understand that it isn't just a power source.

And that is one thing that we work closely with the tribes on, and not just the tribes.

And you can tell from the 10 signatories from this letter.

And I think that is why Washington State, and particularly the city of Seattle, has been successful in protecting our environment.

And the tribes have been very clear about exercising their treaty rights to protect not only the salmon, but the watersheds and everything else.

So that will be a continuing issue for me.

So thank you, and I'm glad that you'll be getting some.

Nicole is amazing, so I'm glad she will brief you, and you'll know exactly what's going on.

You can always give me a call as well.

Great.

Thank you.

I'd appreciate that.

Just a quick follow-up on environmental justice issues.

There was two specific requests from the Northwest Energy Coalition, and I also want to reiterate, in addition to Johnny Bosch's testimony, we did receive a note from Nancy Hirsch, who's the executive director of Northwest Energy Coalition, reiterating support for Ms. Smith.

and indicating a desire to actively work with you to make sure that we have a commitment to the critical customer and environmental issues that Johnny referenced in her testimony.

The two things that she really requested, and I believe this is a reflection of northwest energy coalition's desires overall is to maintain the position of seattle city lights environmental officer which is committed to protecting and promoting the environment in the energy sector and the second specific request to energy sorry environmental justice issues was to continue the practice of meeting quarterly with the environmental advisory group which includes clean tech green buildings and community-based organizations So I think in addition to Council Member Juarez's suggestion to not only do the typical outreach that one would expect as the low-hanging fruit to our tribal governments, which again we want to reiterate is government-to-government relations equally as important as any government body in the Washington state.

We are interested in whether or not you have a response to the request for the environmental officer and meeting quarterly with the environmental advisory group.

Yeah, that was actually something that we even talked about last week when we met with the folks who came in.

And yes, I would have no, I would absolutely, first of all, certainly would not change the reporting relationship for the environmental officer, so that's great.

And I look forward to working with Lynn and getting to know more of the issues really at a deep level.

And two, I think as a new general manager and a newbie to the state of Washington, quarterly may not be enough.

So I certainly wouldn't look at pulling back from that.

That's something where there's a lot going on right now, as you've pointed out.

And just, you know, there's a lot going on and Bonneville and contract issues and we're in a, you know, a pretty short time frame for some really significant things.

So I would absolutely lean into that relationship and could see it happening more often.

Wonderful.

Thank you.

So shall we talk about billing?

Okay.

So this is obviously an issue that you and I had a chance to talk about yesterday.

Earlier this week, we shared with the public the audit that Seattle Auditor is completing at the request of my office to make sure that we do a deep dive evaluation as to what customers can expect going forward.

We've had a number of technology changes at Seattle City Light, and I've said publicly before, Seattle City Light is not unique when it comes to billing changes.

There are often glitches.

We've seen this experienced and a number of places across the country when new systems are put into place.

But it's incumbent upon us as those who have oversight over Seattle City Light and as individuals who will have leadership roles in Seattle City Light to raise the alarm bell when needed.

And when individuals are receiving back bills of over 300, 400, $1,000, it is time to raise the alarm bell.

We are interested in your level of interest in working with us as we try to make sure that customers have a reasonable expectation as to what their bills will be.

Also want to make sure that Seattle City Light is fiscally stable.

We understand it's important to reclaim cost spent on energy in Seattle City Light.

However, we can't expect working families to be able to pay surprise bills of $1,000 or $500 when people are living paycheck to paycheck, especially in this very expensive city.

Also, we understand that many of these unexpected bills were due to the fact that Seattle City Light had been understaffed, it sounds like, from the report in Seattle Times when it came to previous meter reading and we wanna make sure that if there was any back billing that occurred because of estimated bills that we have a reasonable expectation of what we can expect customers to pay.

More importantly, I wanna know what the technology changes are so that we don't have bills that are being sent out that really do surprise people.

I worry about people paying $1,000 when they don't have that money and then people going hungry.

I worry about people not paying the bills and having their lights turned off.

And so from I think a fiscally, from an oversight perspective, from wanting to be fiscally wise, from wanting to make sure that we're being responsive to the public who's raised the alarm bell for us, we're very interested in this audit, appreciate the role that Seattle City Light has had so far in responding to the request for the audit and appreciate the mayor's interest in getting to the bottom of this as well.

We love your perspective as you've read about this issue either in your briefings or in the newspaper over the last few weeks, and your interest in tackling this should you become the next general manager.

Yeah, thank you.

Indeed, you and I talked a little bit yesterday, and I mean, I think that having the trust and confidence of our customer owners is the probably the number one priority.

And in a city where, as is true and certainly in the service territory that I serve right now, where proportionately we have a number of customers for whom proportionately a much larger percentage of their income is going to utility services and who cannot afford to have bills coming out of nowhere.

It's critical that we resolve that and find ways to move forward.

I was pleased yesterday.

I did have an opportunity to review some statistics and some information.

I think Deputy Mayor Mosley referenced it in our meeting, but it does appear that a lot of progress has been made since it looks like we really went back to November of 17 was the timeframe when things were really, really, in a bad place, and these numbers go through June, so I don't know what the last couple months look like, but indeed a lot of improvement.

It doesn't help people who are still getting bills that are too high, so numbers are important, but it doesn't help the personal experience.

So what I would say to you is that I hold that as an extremely high priority.

I have experience putting in a new CIS system recently over the last two years, and working through those problems, and I do think that there are certainly ways to ease the burden on customers as we work through, as you pointed out, the inevitable glitches.

They will happen.

I also do believe that with the AMI system, when we get to the point where AMI is fully implemented and we are using that for our billing data, that that will eliminate some of these issues because it looks like One of the big drivers is, as you pointed out, the meter reading and staffing issues in meter reading and then that's exacerbated by weather and other issues that make that really challenging or impossible and estimating practice is problematic and it was true, that was true at E-Web as well.

Getting to the point where that's not a billing input and we're dealing with accurate consumption data, I think will help a great deal.

And I don't know what kind of programs the city offers or Seattle City Light offers in terms of budget billing and other things, but those are certainly things once AMI system is in, That can be even easier, as can things like prepay and others that I'm sure are being considered.

And those programs are especially helpful for customers who are trying to manage their utility costs with a small budget and for whom deposits and other things are really, really impossible to manage.

So I think there will be lots of opportunity once we get through that.

And in the meantime, we just need to continue to plow through.

Most of the backlog appears to be gone.

and we need to be dealing with customers as quickly and as kindly and respectfully as we can.

And thank you.

You kind of teed me up for the whole AMI question.

But I'm looking back at my notes and what the chairwoman brought up and our meeting on February 15th.

It was a very dark time there because that's when City of Seattle Light was implementing their new joint billing system with SPU.

And that's from February on is when we got these crazy bills that came out and we were getting a barrage from our constituents and everyone else like this can't be right.

their bills had increased three to 500%.

And so I'm hoping what we're hearing now through AMI and the smart meters that there will be no need to estimate the bills, but now we're gonna go forward with this technology, which was well over budget, as you know, So, I'm going to let you just talk about, because we talked a little bit about it yesterday, talk about what AMI is, smart meters briefly so the viewing public understands, and where we're at now in September of 2018 going forward about how that billing and how it's looking with what you foresee that relationship with SPU is that it was worth the time and money to put in this new system.

Well, I can tell you that I had the great opportunity because I went to work at Central Lincoln and I literally started as general manager.

The month they stopped, they started billing off of their MI data.

So in many ways, I got to come in after the after the implementation headaches that would also be inevitable.

And I've had the fun part, and it wasn't all fun.

There were actually lots of, you know, there had been no policy and other things that had to be resolved.

But I had the fun part of figuring out how we could take the system and make it beneficial to our customer owners.

And so, and that's something that I can bring to Seattle City Light, and I'm excited about it.

So, yeah.

Yeah, there's lots of advanced metering infrastructure basically is these are broadcasting digital meters.

And most meters today are digital, although many utilities, and I don't know the age of Seattle City Lights meter plant, many utilities still have a large number of analog meters in their system.

And they're mechanical.

So mechanical meters, as they age, they don't record as accurately.

And I think that you are probably experiencing some of what you might be experiencing is, as you're changing meters and putting in new digital meters, whether they're broadcasting or not, they are accurate.

And so that can create some bill shock, and that's also problematic and needs to be dealt with sensitively and respectfully.

But the AMI meters do, aside from issues that I have read about and heard about where perhaps an opening read wasn't input correctly.

And so I'm putting that aside.

Putting those aside, the advanced meters work really well.

And they are, you know, some of the issues that you have here, like with your student population, for instance, it will be huge because student, my time at E-Web, where I was in charge of customer service, huge college town and it was impossible to stay on top of the move in move out season because it was such a big percentage of the community at one point in time.

So those are the kinds of things that once the system is fully implemented and running will work really well and it will ease the ups and downs.

And so it's digital but then it's broadcasting.

So broadcasting of course means that the information is being sent back to the utility without the need of a meter reader So you don't have weather issues.

You don't have estimating issues.

You don't have access issues.

You don't have dog issues.

And I think Seattle City Light, it is unfortunate that the project has come in over budget.

And I'm not really in a position to comment on it more than that.

But I think that you're well on the way.

It's going to be a very, it's going to be a great process.

And I think what you and I did talk about yesterday is that any change on top of a system that perhaps isn't already completely stable has the potential to exacerbate it.

So we'll need to be really thoughtful and careful as we move through to the full implementation of that project.

And I think there's probably some opportunity, although when I read this, I was comforted that there has been a good bit of process mapping and other things that have gone on to try and understand really what's the root cause of the problems.

And there may be more of that that needs to be done and there certainly will be an opportunity and needs to be prioritized looking at customer service policies and procedures because AMI changes some of those things and can change them.

Just a quick one, and I'll let the chairwoman take over.

While we all appreciate AMI and the more accuracy, what we deal with with constituents and consumer groups who opposed AMI and the change is that some people believe and we want to be able to get as much information and being transparent as possible.

that AMI isn't just an additional revenue stream disguised as this new technology that has more accuracy and it's really a good thing for you.

The opposition to that is AMI, there's concerns, first of all, and we'll hear more about this, privacy issues, but also that because we have AMI in place now, the advanced meter infrastructure, which is computer-based, that it is gonna increase rates even more.

That is what, I mean, that's what it comes down to, the everyday person, as the chairwoman was saying, not being able to pay their bill.

And so, what are your thoughts on that?

Well, I can say, again, without looking at the specific data here, I can tell you that that was not the case at Central Lincoln.

The economic, there were very clear economic advantages to the customer population as a whole.

There's a small number of customers at Central Lincoln who do worry about privacy or medical issues, and we honor them on a case-by-case basis as best we can.

And my experience at E-Web, who is only at the very beginning of an AMI implementation as well, but I was personally involved in multiple business cases, it really does tend to drive a great deal of cost savings.

And it's not, we talked about this with respect to something else yesterday, I can't remember, but we're not here at City Light, we're not leaders in this technology, so we're actually in a really good position because We're not even maybe, we're appropriate.

We're appropriate adopters of a technology that is moving across the country.

And so a lot of the lessons learned are in.

And you're using Landis and Gear.

That's who Central Lincoln used.

So I will say that my history and my experiences is actually quite relevant on that one.

Thank you.

So a few quick follow-up questions on Council Member Juarez's themes here.

When it came to implementation and monitoring of the new AMI meters, when it came to asking what would be the most effective way to get this system rolled out and installed in every household around Seattle, I know that the partners on the front line from IBW 77 and the Union Coalition had some recommendations on appropriate staffing, appropriate ratios for management, and many of those issues, it sounds like, were not adopted.

I'd be interested in going forward your commitment to making sure that those who are on the front line who do have recommendations having an opportunity to provide those directly to you so that folks who may have the expertise on the frontline really can provide that directly to you when making big system changes like this.

I think the statistics that we've seen over the last 10 months since I've been able to be in this seat have shown notable improvements.

And yet we continue to receive calls about over-billing and concerns about implementation that I wonder if they could have been prevented had the recommendations from the frontline workers been adopted at the forefront.

Given the role that you have had in the past, and I really appreciate that when you talked about your experience, the first thing that you mentioned, the first three or four bullet points, was your direct work with unions and frontline workers.

Can you comment a little bit about your commitment to that type of collaborative approach when implementing large-scale changes?

Sure, yeah.

I have a...

And I think if you review my questions, you're aware that I went through a work stoppage with IBEW at E-Web, and it was an 11-day strike.

And that's not something I would want for anyone.

but it really shaped the way I view labor relations, and it afforded me the opportunity to, I guess, really develop my philosophy.

So I was, you know, we brought in Cornell Labor Relations Institute.

They're the best.

They came in.

They taught us, and it was a, that was an initiative that E-Webs Management and the IBW partnered with, so we shared the we shared the economic investment and we shared a commitment to changing the relationship going forward.

And that has held ever since.

And so, you know, I have a great relationship with my union rep today and would imagine that I had a great time in the interview process meeting with a number of the represented employees and their union reps. And I absolutely would look to them for information.

We work really collaboratively with our guy today.

My goal is always to, well, sometimes I say my goal, and I think as a CEO, my goal is to have exactly as many people working for me as I need to do the work that we agreed to do.

And, you know, I'm not there to, I'm not an employment agency, but at the same time, I don't want to shortcut customers or employees by eliminating positions.

I would never do that.

So I, you know, I have worked when the business model or work has changed, we have worked collaboratively with the union to find ways to transition work and to transition people's roles.

And, you know, I've got a lady right now who has capacity and wants to learn work.

And the work that she wants to learn is not union work.

And some would say, well, there's a risk.

But I didn't view it that way.

So I went to my union rep and said, I'd really like to give Tammy the opportunity to learn some new work.

Are you comfortable with that?

And we agreed.

And so that's what she's doing.

And That's kind of the way I approach it.

It's a relationship and I don't view my represented employees as any less my employees than non-represented employees.

One of the other themes that you mentioned throughout your responses, you commented on in your opening comment, and you've touched on it again in response to a few of the questions that came from this committee, is your commitment to making sure that people who have low and moderate incomes have affordable bills and can afford to keep the lights on.

One of the things that I'm really excited about, though I think it's a few years in the making, I'm really excited that we're taking it on now, is the review of the rate design.

We intentionally structured this so that the new general manager would be able to participate in structural changes that I think are much needed to Seattle City Lights rates.

And can you comment a little bit about any of the thoughts that you have about the current rate system, which you'll be looking forward to over the next six to eight months as the review panel considers rate options.

And the desire I think from me and I believe this committee to make sure that those who are qualified for the utility discount program get enrolled.

Right now we've seen a tremendous amount of new entrants into the utility discount program, but we have about three quarters of the population who is eligible is still not enrolled.

So one of the things I would like to see is a rate design that really is, really projects our commitment to economic justice make sure that the utility is economically stable, but also make sure that those who are in need of assistance get in the program, recognizing that that still might mean less revenue in the door for Seattle City Light.

Can you comment on some of your philosophy?

And I know you've had experience in the past about rate design changes and what you'll be looking forward to in the next six to eight months as this process continues.

Right, well, thank you.

Yeah, I think, you know, rates 101, and you know this, but maybe for the benefit of folks who might be watching, you know, there's really three parts to it.

There's a revenue requirement.

How much revenue do we need?

And, of course, the revenue requirement is a sum total of expenses.

So where you start is what are the required investment in the system, which is capital and operating expenses and other things.

So that's a huge input.

And I believe that's the process that was started through the strategic planning process and through the rate trajectory that the mayor brought forward and that was ultimately adopted.

But I also understand that even with the adjustments to what was originally proposed.

There is certainly an interest, appropriately so, to look at that and see what else might be there.

So that's the starting place because your revenue requirement drives everything else.

Then there's issues around, you know, rates in our business, cost of service analysis is what it's called.

But cost of service is largely around saying who pays for what, and that's where you have opportunity to talk about social equity and, you know, what are the community's goals, and you're looking at fixed assets that are used to perhaps deliver power to specific customers or not, and so those are pretty technical issues.

And then you get to kind of the fun part, which is the rate design, because once you have identified an appropriate amount of revenue that you need to recover your expenses, and you have made some determinations about who pays for what, then you can look at different ways of recovering those revenues.

Your interest in ensuring that economically disadvantaged customers are paying, you know, are paying appropriate fees for critical products and services, it kind of touches in each of those areas.

It's not in one or the other.

I understand based on the letter that recently went out that the review board is going to be focusing on rate design, which I think is appropriate.

I think that's the appropriate place for them to be focused while staff focuses very hard on continuing to look at that revenue requirement.

and where we use this technical analysis to look at the actual cost allocations.

So rate design, you know, in traditional rate design, there's really three components, right?

There's KWH components, there's fixed charges, and there's demand charges.

And that's been the way our industry has been for a very long time.

And I will say, you know, typically residential customers do not pay demand.

Residential customers in most communities pay some combination of a per KW charge, KWH charge, and a fixed charge.

I think that what's happening right now in the industry, and it's an exciting time, frankly, for you to be taking this work on, and I noted in the letter that the Citizens Review Board, one of their pieces of work is to look at all the options that are out there because there's a ton of stuff happening.

you know, I hear people talking about things like cell phone designed approaches to rate design, you know, and there's just a lot of different ideas.

There's probably never been more talk about how utilities, because frankly, the issue of flat or declining loads, it's not a It's not a problem specific to Seattle.

It's a problem everywhere.

And it's a problem that will continue, as it should.

Continued investment in energy efficiency and demand-side programs will continue to drive that.

And so, again, not trying to avoid the question, but you've got to look at all three pieces.

And I think having the right people look at all three pieces makes a lot of sense.

And one point I want to add, though, is just in general for me, I went home, I didn't go home, I went to my hotel room last night and I looked up, I think you talked about 33,000 enrollees maybe in the utility discount program right now, which is, and a desire to really understand how many folks qualify and increase that.

At E-Web, and I was responsible for the limited income program for many years, at E-Web we had a very aggressive program, and it was rate funded, and it wasn't a discount program per se, it was really focused more on bill payment assistance, but I went and looked, and in 2012 we were serving 34,000 limited income customers in Eugene with one form or another.

So my commitment to that is very real and very deep, and

Thank you.

Council Member Juarez, yeah.

Thank you, Chairwoman.

Just a quick question.

I know we focused a lot on residential users, but one issue that continues to come up with rates is our industrial and business users.

So I was going to ask you just kind of an open-ended question, what has been your relationship with either raising rates or having those negotiations with, and of course we need business to have electricity and power, but what has been your relationship and your philosophy of dealing with not the residential piece, but the industrial and business piece?

Philosophy, I think it's really, I mean, these are jobs.

So these are often critical jobs for our people and for our communities, and I value that a great deal.

At E-Web, we had several large industrial customers.

Ironically, at Central Lincoln, I have one customer that's 40% of my load.

So the relationship that we have with that customer and their role in the community, because they are a source of value of good, high-paying jobs is important.

And what we've done is we've looked for ways, again, through the process I just described, to have them fully paying their share of all of the costs and to, at the same time, allow them to continue to compete in an increasingly competitive market.

So I was in charge of the key accounts program at E-Web, where we had a key account staff that worked with our larger customers.

And we've actually, although on a much smaller scale, implemented a similar program at Central Lincoln, just so that we could make sure that we are working with that customer group in ways that facilitate them making smart decisions.

A lot of that's even around working with our large customers around energy efficiency and industrial energy efficiency projects because that's a great source of conservation today as we have increasingly improved the quality of our home stock, housing stock, looking to our commercial and industrial customers for energy efficiency is critical and so that's part of that equation.

Well, this will be one of the most important issues, I think, in the first six to eight months.

We really appreciate the work of the review panel to take this issue on for us.

Initially, we had suggested a larger body, including additional community partners, be part of a review of the rate design.

And through conversations with the review panel, really have asked them to take this responsibility on in partnership with some of the other community organizations that have written into city council over the last two years about their concerns about capital investments, debt spending, and the rate structure.

So I'm very excited about the work that the review panel has committed to.

It's an all-volunteer body that I did not recognize at first and really appreciate their ongoing work.

And I think that with the experience that you've had in the past, your commitment to economic justice issues as well as race and social justice makes me feel optimistic that we will be able to reach the goals set out in the timeline that this committee has committed to, which is pretty aggressive.

It's pretty aggressive and we've also been very responsive to their desire to scope the work that's in front of them so that we can have some recommendations to take up mid-year 2019. I think that for me, that concludes the majority of my questions today.

We do have a number of questions that the community has offered up through public testimony today, which we'll make available to you as well so that you can have a chance to respond to any of those.

specific questions.

We'll also have the chance to hear from you again one week from today on Thursday, September 20th at 9.30.

We will respectfully appreciate the fact that this is a lot of questions that you have put forward, answers that you've provided to this committee in response to the questions that we've put forward.

And I want to also note that these questions didn't just come from myself and Council Member Juarez or Council Member Bagshaw, who's another member of this committee.

They came as well from organizations that we've been working with on energy conservation, environmental justice issues, workplace culture issues, the unions and union leadership that you've heard from.

And they've also come from individuals who are consumers themselves.

I think it's a robust set of questions to try to be reflective of the community that we serve.

Before we end, if there's any last comments that you have or any additional items that you'd like to leave for not just the committee, but the viewers at home who are watching your confirmation process, please feel free to.

I just, I guess I would say I appreciate the opportunity to talk today.

It was a good conversation, and I appreciate I like that.

Shout out to Seattle City Light employees who might be watching, and I'm excited to get to know folks and to learn from you.

And yeah, I mean, I think the challenges are real.

The challenges, again, the challenges for everyone are real.

So it is a time, and I think I said that during the initial press conference, the industry is just changing, and it's changing fast.

I think I shared this during one of my interviews, but I do a blog with my employees, and I had blogged out to them and said, hey, so if you think you're going to be in your job for more than five years, I challenge you to do a quick exercise.

And I was remembering when my kids, and they're all grown, but when my kids were in kindergarten, many of them did time capsules.

And so they put all the little toys and things.

And then when they were 18, they got to open them.

And I said, So take out a piece of paper and write down the answers to some questions.

And the questions were, what do you think your job's gonna look like in five, 10, 15 years?

What do you think the utility's gonna look like?

What do you think the industry's gonna look like?

I said, I guarantee you, when you open that, you'll be wrong.

but it will not be the same as it is today.

And I think we are all figuring it out together in a lot of ways.

The change is happening quickly.

It's kind of one of those ironies, because you sit back and you predict, or you predict change will come, and you do it and you do it and you do it, and then all of a sudden it really starts to happen.

And I think the combination of technology customers becoming really clear about what they want, and utilities understanding that it is our job to listen and to provide reasonable solutions for the things they want.

And then regionally, the fact that our Bonneville Power Administration contracts are expiring in 2028. Those three things together guarantee that the next 10 years are going to be quite a ride.

And so I look forward and very much hope that you'll confirm me and that I will be able to help drive that forward.

drive that car for that wild ride that's ahead.

And thanks very much for your time.

Thank you.

Well, excellent.

Yes, Deputy Mayor Mosley.

Do you have something to say, Mr. Mosley?

I do.

Wow.

I'm surprised you didn't ask me, Queen.

There's an article about the process and Deborah's nomination in, I think it's a national paper, clearing up.

And one of her people, that knows her from the industry said, his quote was interesting to me, and I think it reflects on the kind of person that we have before you.

He said that, Seattle City Light right now is a really tough job, and I don't think Deborah would be interested in it unless it was.

I thought that said a lot.

I don't know what that says about me.

But it's true.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So just by way of nods, will the folks who participated in this process, the 22 individuals and the co-chairs, will you be with us at next week's hearing as well?

Not yet?

Okay.

Well, in case you're not able to be here, I just wanna make sure that we extend our huge amount of appreciation to the co-chairs.

Sharon, thank you for your leadership.

Thank you for helping be at the helm of this process over the last few months.

We'll recognize all of the members of the committee at the next meeting to make sure that people really know our deep appreciation for the process that you all went through.

It's not an easy process.

Hours, if not weeks of your time over the last few months were spent on this.

And I really do appreciate the thoughtful analysis that you've done, not only to making sure that we have an individual who's well qualified, but somebody who's committed to the values that Seattle's city council and the mayor's office are truly interested in seeing.

and that's a commitment to race and social justice, a commitment to workplace culture and change, a commitment to safety, and a commitment to green energy economy.

We've heard many of those issues today.

I know that some of the questions that we have coming forward for next week will touch on those issues even more.

We appreciate you coming back for this discussion one more time, if not two more times, but definitely one more time next week on Thursday, September 20th, again at 9.30 p.m.

In addition to your ongoing conversation and possible confirmation out of this committee, we will have a conversation about the Yesler Terrace Annual Report, the Office of Housing, Race and Social Justice Initiative Report and Action Plan.

And that will be it for that committee's meeting next week.

In the meantime, we encourage folks to continue to send in questions, comments, your public testimony, and any thoughts or questions that you'd like us to ask at next week's confirmation hearing.

And with that, I believe today's committee meeting is adjourned.

Thank you all so much for joining us.