Seattle City Council 1/24/2023

We are recording.

Thank you, son.

Good afternoon, everybody.

Today is Tuesday, January 24th.

You're waving at me, Councilor Nielsen.

I thought there was something you wanted to say.

Okay, let me start again.

Today is Tuesday, January 24th.

This is the meeting of the Seattle City Council.

I am now calling it to order at 2.01.

I'm Debra Juarez.

Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll?

Councilmember Herbold?

Here.

Councilmember Lewis?

Present.

Councilmember Morales?

Councilmember Nelson?

Present.

Councilmember Peterson?

Present.

Councilmember Sawant?

Present.

Councilmember Strauss?

Present.

And Council President Juarez?

Here.

Seven present.

Thank you.

Moving along on our agenda, My understanding is there are no presentations today, so we will move on to public comment.

As you know, we will open up the public comment hybrid, wait, hybrid public comment period.

And Madam Clerk, can you again, for the public, tell us how many remote speakers we have and how many speakers we have in chambers?

Currently we have 10 in chambers and 32 remote speakers signed up.

Great, so what we'll do is each speaker will be given a minute, and we will let the people that are in chambers go 1st, since there's 10 of them.

So, with that, again, each speaker will have 1 minute and madam clerk.

I will now hand it over to you to present the instructions.

The city of flowers and the city of goodwill.

Hello, Seattle.

We are the Emerald City, the City of Flowers and the City of Goodwill, built on indigenous land, the traditional territory of the Coast Salish peoples.

The Seattle City Council welcomes remote public comment and is eager to hear from residents of our city.

If you would like to be a speaker and provide a verbal public comment, you may register two hours prior to the meeting via the Seattle City Council website.

Here's some information about the public comment proceedings.

Speakers are called upon in the order in which they registered on the council's website.

Each speaker must call in from the phone number provided when they registered online and used the meeting ID and passcode that was emailed upon confirmation.

If you did not receive an email confirmation, please check your spam or junk mail folders.

A reminder, the speaker meeting ID is different from the general listen line meeting ID provided on the agenda.

Once a speaker's name is called, the speaker's microphone will be unmuted and an automatic prompt will say, the host would like you to unmute your microphone.

That is your cue that it's your turn to speak.

At that time, you must press star six.

You will then hear a prompt of, you are unmuted.

Be sure your phone is unmuted on your end so that you will be heard.

As a speaker, you should begin by stating your name and the item that you are addressing.

A chime will sound when 10 seconds are left in your allotted time as a gentle reminder to wrap up your public comments.

At the end of the allotted time, your microphone will be muted and the next speaker registered will be called.

Once speakers have completed providing public comment, Please disconnect from the public comment line and join us by following the meeting via Seattle Channel broadcast or through the listening line option listed on the agenda.

The council reserves the right to eliminate public comment if the system is being abused or if the process impedes the council's ability to conduct its business on behalf of residents of the city.

Any offensive language that is disruptive to these proceedings or that is not focused on an appropriate topic as specified in Council rules may lead to the speaker being muted by the presiding officer.

Our hope is to provide an opportunity for productive discussions that will assist our orderly consideration of issues before the Council.

The public comment period is now open.

and we will begin with the first speaker on the list.

Please remember to press star six after you hear the prompt of, you have been unmuted.

Thank you, Seattle.

Before we begin, so I know that we have some people here that are not familiar with public comment.

Those that are in chambers, please pay attention to the clock.

You have one minute and then you'll get a 10 second warning so we can wrap things up.

Again, I'm going to caution those folks that you are here to speak to the items, of course, on our agenda, on our work plan, and to actually be respectful and create this to be a safe space where people can come here and actually have public comment.

With that, Madam Clerk, if I deem that I need to mute for any unruly, disruptive behavior per our rules, I'm going to ask that you do it immediately.

With that, Madam Clerk, go ahead and start with our first folks that are in chambers.

Okay, thank you.

Our first in-person speaker will be Tejas Devanur.

Hi, my name is Tejas.

I'm from India and I'm a member of Socialist Alternative, currently a tech worker in Seattle.

I urge all the Democrats on Seattle City Council to vote yes on the proposal from our community members and Socialist Council Member Shama Sawant to ban caste-based discrimination in our city.

As a socialist, I completely agree with the Alphabet Workers Union workers who say that the fight for the civil rights of caste-oppressed people is a workers' fight.

It's crucial for all workers in the tech sector and beyond, and all representatives of working and oppressed people to take up the fight against the caste system.

It's easy to think that this is an issue far away from us.

Why should council members support this ordinance in Seattle?

Well, in August of last year, the California Department of Fair Employment and Housing won an appeals court ruling to proceed with a lawsuit alleging that the Oppressed engineered Cisco systems was actively targeted by his dominant cast managers and denied professional opportunities I think this is just one case that shows how it's urgent for our movement to fight for concrete steps such as this ordinance here and Beyond this I think a victory to make Seattle the first city in the country to ban cast-based Discrimination would be a shot in the arm for the movement internationally to end all forms of oppression.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Shubhan Kurukapu Shubhan.

My name is Shubhankar Garuban and I am of Sri Lankan origin.

Ethnic oppression is a big problem in Sri Lanka, like caste oppression is in India.

I ask all Democrats on the City Council to support the caste ordinance put forward by Kshama Swan and the South Asian Community Activists.

If the City Council votes this bill, then Seattle will be the first city to outlaw caste discrimination, inspiring people across the U.S., South Asia, and the world.

The legislation will prohibit caste discrimination in employment, wages, and workplace conditions, as well as public accommodations, similar to civil rights laws from the 1960s.

Caste discrimination has been growing in the USA and remains prevalent in the Seattle, which has a big tech sector where the discrimination is especially prevalent.

This ordinance would also aid tech workers to unite and organize and fight back, including rank up on Google.

The fight against caste system is inextricably linked to the fight against capitalism and racism.

This ordinance would be a step in fighting caste discrimination here and in the world.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Alok Kumbhari.

I'm Alok Kumare.

I live and work here in Seattle.

I belong to an oppressed Dalit caste and have experienced the trauma, the stigma, and the oppression of the system throughout most of my life.

I'm here today to ask the city council to pass someone's ordinance to make caste discrimination illegal.

Like the Black and other marginalized communities, Dalits have been struggling with the challenges of social segregation, perception of inferiority, and just blatant discrimination.

When I was 16, I was thrown out of a housing when the landlady learned about my caste just because of a minor dispute with comments like, I should have asked your cost before renting out.

All that you people are capable of are cleaning the sewers, and you should stay that way.

No doubt, this has stayed with me and scarred me for life.

Sadly, this system of operation, this mindset of superiority, the bias has penetrated the Indian diaspora.

However, unlike other marginalized communities, Dalit community largely remains hidden and suffers through it silently.

I sincerely urge the council members to unanimously approve the ordinance to make caste discrimination illegal in Seattle.

This will not only give us a voice, but also will have a ripple effect throughout the state.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Priyati Gupta.

Is Priyati not here?

Okay, our next speaker is Uma R.

I'm Uma and a technology executive and I've lived here since 1999. I'm here to urge the council members to join Council Member Savant in banning caste-based discrimination in our city.

Seattle region has a large portion of South Asian community that comes from a caste-privileged background like me.

My success in America is because of my horded dominant caste privileges by birth and not due to the myth of model minority.

This is not possible for other South Asians who are caste-discriminated and oppressed for generations.

Dr. Ambedkar said political tyranny is nothing compared to social tyranny.

Caste manifests in a matrix of prejudices, including the politics of food.

To quote Real Change's article, among South Asians, many caste-dominant South Asians will refuse to rent their place to meat-eaters of Dalit origin, will not have roommates who eat meat, will not share a cup of water or let beef come in contact with their kitchen utensils for fear of caste pollution in our area.

This is nothing but untouchability and caste discrimination.

And often Dalit Indian Americans have to mask their identity due to these food discrimination pressures in social settings and the children face caste oppression in schools.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Sujala Ram.

Sujala.

Jai Bhim.

I was born into a Brahmin family.

My community practices caste discrimination here in Seattle in the following ways.

Pride in the Vedas, Vedic society, and Sanskrit as the pinnacle of Indian civilization and philosophical achievement.

Castes based on social and matrimonial groups.

The Brahmin Samaj, matrimonial sites dedicated to helping people find partners who are Brahmins only.

Pride in announcing our caste openly and unsolicitedly, declaring that they are Tam Brahm, as in Tamer Brahmins.

portraying ourselves as victims of affirmative action.

Sundar Pichai, CEO of Google, comes from the most marginalized community, is a post that you would see a lot on Quora by Tam Brams here in the United States.

The only way this menace to democracy can be rooted out is to make caste discrimination illegal.

Let's do that in Seattle now and then in the rest of the country.

Thank you.

Our next speaker, our next speaker is Natalie Bailey.

Hello, my name is Natalie.

I'm a District 3 resident and yeah.

I urge all Democrats on the city council to vote yes on the proposal from community members and socialists, city council members shall must want to ban caste-based discrimination in our city.

If the city council supports our bill, Seattle will become the first city in the nation to outlaw caste discrimination.

This will be a historic win.

This will be historic if we win.

And I have no doubt that it will inspire working people in immigrant communities and other cities across the nation and internationally to take action.

The struggle against gender oppression Racial and gender oppression in Seattle and all across America needs to be linked with the fight against all oppression and against economic exploitation of the majority of working people.

Caste-based discrimination doesn't only take place in other countries.

It is faced by South Asian American and other immigrant working people in their workplaces, including the tech sector in Seattle and across the country.

That is why our movement is bringing forth the first in the nation legislation for our city to ban caste-based discrimination in solidarity with our South Asian and other immigrant community members and all working people.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Prashant Nima.

Prashant Nima.

Greetings, council members.

My name is Prashant, and I'm a Seattle resident for the past 21 years.

As an Indian-American who comes from the dominant caste family, I strongly urge the council to pass the ordinance proposed by Council Member Shama unanimously.

As a member of the community which is infected by shape-shifting virus of casteism, I urge you to provide protection to the caste oppressed.

As an insider, I can confirm to you that caste is actively practiced in the South Asian community and also being replicated through propaganda and even cultural education to little children through whitewashing of the caste.

The caste-ridden mindset questions the abilities of caste oppressed because of the centuries of propaganda that they have been informed as children.

because there's no such protection available to the cost of cost protection.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Amer.

A-M-E-R Amer.

Thank you.

Hello, everyone.

My name is Amir Mohammed, a small family business owner in the Seattle area past 15 years.

And I do advocacy work on behalf of the Indian Muslim community.

I am here today to urge the council to approve this ordinance unanimously.

Your support will protect my South Asian immigrants who are victims of caste oppression.

If the City Council supports the ordinance proposed by Shama Samant, Seattle will become the first city in the nation to outlaw caste discrimination.

This will be historic.

If we win, I have no doubt that it will inspire working people and immigrants communities in other cities across the nation to take action.

I strongly urge this council to pause this.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Alex Zimmerman.

Thank you.

Sieg Heil, Sieg Heil, my dirty, damn Nazi, Gestapo, democracy, fascist, bandit and psychopath.

My name is Alex Zimmerman.

I stand here with my red sign and a low page almost for 20 years every day.

Yeah, I'm totally support.

I'm totally support when you stop discrimination in anti-Semitic, in someone absolutely right, when she give me 12 trespasses because I'm a Jew.

She's good.

She's against discrimination.

She's good.

12 trespasses.

For 1,200 days, she approves this.

Savant, you're very good.

You're the best.

You're the best what they know against discrimination in anti-Semitism.

12 trespassings.

For 1,200 days, you approve this.

Many times.

Stand up, America.

We need strong discrimination.

And very important, we need to stop these bandits, these Nazi pagans, these champions.

That's it.

Let's cut Mr. Zimmerman.

Mr. Zimmerman, you are now deemed disruptive and you will be escorted out of City Hall.

You are not today elected.

Our last in-person speaker, our last in-person speaker is Raghun Kalukes.

I'm here to speak in support of the anti-caste, again, banning caste discrimination, the ordinance to ban that.

My main point I want to make is that caste discrimination is very much alive in the local area.

I work in the tech sector in Microsoft.

And I can tell you from my personal experience that when there was affirmative action announced by the Indian government like a decade ago, there was an email discussion about that in the Microsoft email threads.

And various employees expressed a lot of bigoted, hateful comments questioning the intelligence of caste oppressed people.

and those kinds of hideous comments didn't lead to any kind of accountability.

Those people still kept their jobs, maybe even got promoted.

So, you know, that's my main point is that custodial is very much in this area.

And so it's very important that we outlaw it.

So I would urge the city council members to pass it unanimously.

Thank you, we'll now move into our remote speakers and please remember to press star six to unmute your telephone, your cell phone.

Our first remote speaker is Howard Gale.

Good afternoon, Howard Gale with seattlestop.org.

We are now in our 11th year of federal oversight of Seattle Police, yet these are just a few of the Seattle Times articles in the last couple of months.

The SBD conducted a traumatizing SWAT exercise near Ingraham High School the day after the shooting there.

An SBD officer on leave due to a probe into stalking.

The SBD arresting graffiti artists.

The revelation that our state police academy is graduating recruits with a propensity for violence.

The continuing story of SBD officers warning a sex trafficker of investigations leading to further victim abuse.

The SPD is a necessary arrest of a man in behavioral health crisis, leading to his death in jail.

SPD leadership retaliating against an SPD sergeant for revealing failures in sex assault investigations.

Over $10 million a year we spend on police accountability, which has contributed to an illusion of accountability, an illusion that apparently gives a counsel permission to ignore these repeated failings.

This is over $10 million spent on justifications, not on justice.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Joseph Kuruvilla.

And Joseph will be followed by Nikhil Dharmaraj.

But go ahead, Joseph.

Yeah.

Hi.

I am a software developer from the SF Bay Area and a member of the Ambedkar King Study Circle.

I urge all Democrats on the Seattle City Council to vote yes on the proposal from community members and Socialist Council member Shama Sawant to ban caste-based discrimination in our city.

I did my master's in Seattle for two years, and I've been staying in the Bay Area for about two years now.

I've been personally affected by the acts of Indians practicing caste in the public forum.

The caste practices are deeply rooted in the minds of the Indians, and sometimes they don't even realize that they are discriminating against each other.

One such event happened for me when I moved in with my Indian roommates.

We all shared our utensils for cooking, and we mostly cooked vegetarian.

One day I wanted to cook meat for myself and I wanted to use the utensils and my roommate said that I cannot cook meat in the utensils and that would affect the purity of them and they cannot use it for the future.

I also, you know, like I speak a different language called Tamil and the Apakas people have attended.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Nikhil Damarajah.

Before we begin, Madam Clerk, again, I want to just remind people that are calling in.

We really hate cutting you off.

So please, please listen for the ding that tells you have ten seconds to wrap it up.

So I apologize.

But again, it's important that we move the calendar forward and you listen for the chime.

So, you know, you have ten seconds to wrap up your statement so we don't have to just cut you off.

Thank you.

Go ahead, Madam Clerk.

Thank you.

We actually will have two Nikhils in a row.

The first one is Nikhil Dharmaraj.

Yes.

Hi.

My name is Nikhil and I'm speaking to ban caste discrimination in Seattle.

I'm an upper caste ally and a queer Indian-American student.

I'm speaking because I've seen firsthand how caste privilege, capital, and supremacy has followed my privileged family and community into the diaspora.

The normalization of casteist slurs, exclusionary caste pride, caste-based harassment, and sexual violence toward caste minorities is absolutely pervasive in our diasporic communities.

Unequivocally, caste is a broad civil rights issue that affects all South Asians and Americans.

I hope that with its commitment to furthering progressive values of justice, the Democratic Party takes seriously these urgent demands to instill caste civil rights.

It is a feminist, labor, and human rights issue, and I can say especially it is a queer and trans issue as well.

Casteism has made itself bare in tech companies, universities, restaurants, workplaces, and general institutions, so I'd be delighted to see Seattle and its city council take the lead in this national battle.

being the first American city to historically legislate in favor of protecting caste-oppressed communities.

I urge you all to vote yes in favor of banning discrimination so that South Asian caste minorities can have avenues to address such systemic harm in a city with as large of a South Asian population as Seattle.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Nikhil Mandilaparthi.

Nikhil, please press star six.

We might have to keep, we'll go back, we'll try back.

Let's move on to Siddhartha Valicharla.

My name is Siddhartha Valicharla.

I come from the Indian Untouchable Community.

I request all council members to support the ordinance to ban caste discrimination in Seattle, not for the sake of us oppressive caste community, but even for the sake of those who are in no way connected to or a part of the caste system.

Caste discrimination happens around you and among you.

An apartment complex was burned by an Indian man who deemed that his daughter had married a man who was lower caste, and this happened in Chicago.

Such caste atrocity can happen in a suburb here in Seattle.

70 people, including black, white, Hispanic, and other Asians were affected by it.

So everyone is affected, not just caste oppressed.

In California, you buy earthquake insurance.

In the Midwest, you buy tornado insurance.

In Florida, you buy hurricane insurance.

When you live with and have Indian population around you, you buy caste insurance.

That is what this legislation will be for you.

So I request all of you to support the ordinance and ban caste discrimination in Seattle and pave way for this ban across the United States.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Arul P. Arul, with the last initial of P.

I see the child.

Hello.

Go ahead.

Hello.

Good afternoon, council members.

I'm Arul.

I'm a writer and technologist.

I would like to talk briefly about caste discrimination in the workplace.

After Cisco and BAPS cases, it's important for us to consider the caste system in the US.

While caste policies are being mandated in academia, it's still not explicitly protected category federally or in the US tech companies.

This means Dalits have little institutional support in the industry.

It's difficult for complaints about caste discrimination at work to lead to a disciplinary action, especially if their co-workers claim religious discrimination in response.

Religion, unlike caste, is protected category in the workplace.

You can't even bring a complaint and the burden of proof is always going to be on the survivor.

Dalits who are born into the marginalized caste in India's rigid hierarchies have faced violence and oppression for long.

So to ban that, what have been carried to the US, I strongly urge the city council to take lead on this human right.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Gaurav Pathania.

Gaurav?

Hello my name is corporate on you and I'm a university professor of sociology at Eastern Mennonite University.

I'm part of the bidding in this meeting is a proud member of the population community.

The tradition vibrant culture that we all share, but at the same time I must mention things that I'm not proud of my community and what one such thing is the cast inequalities and cast practices which unfortunately population people are still getting with them as they move here in the U.S.

I'm here to support the ban on caste-based discrimination.

Even after achieving all this socioeconomic mobility, the South Asian people remain in their caste bubbles or caste chambers, living, dining, and marrying among their own caste, sub-caste groups, and glorifying the supremacy of their caste.

And eventually, the same mindset reflects in the job sector and hiring processes.

renting housing, and so forth and so on.

As a result, the community is facing mental and physical segregation.

I urge all Democrats on the City Council to honor the...

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Ajinkya with the last initial I.

Ajinkya?

Hi, I am Ajinkya.

I'm a software engineer and part of Humberker-King study circle.

I urge all Democrats in the Seattle City Council to vote yes on the proposal from community members and socialist council members to ban caste-based discrimination in Seattle.

My experience relates to my argument with a so-called upper caste colleague on the topic of reservations or the affirmative action provided in government jobs and educational institutions.

The person The said person did not hesitate to flaunt his caste pride and attach intellectual ability to his caste.

It is common to attribute the myth of meritocracy to the dominant caste when evidence, argument, and historical context was provided to the said person against the meritocracy of the upper caste.

And in favor of the reservation, he was visibly disturbed and refused to engage meaningfully with me in the future.

There is a clear culture of exclusion practiced when the dominant caste find your caste location in social relations.

Hence, I urge all Democrats on this.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Sanjay Kumar.

My name is Sanjay.

Hello, are you still there?

Sanjay?

My name is Sanjay Kumar.

I'm an active member of Ambedkar International Center USA.

I'm in support of the proposed legislation to ban cost-based discrimination in Seattle.

It is much needed and set a milestone.

People, especially from South Asian diaspora, do come with lots of cultural heritage.

We are very intended to continue and pass that cultural heritage to the next generation.

South Asian populations are growing across the United States and in Seattle, too.

Consciously or unconsciously, We bring cost baggage inherited as a part of our culture.

Cost-based discrimination is the byproduct of the caste system.

Caste system is a venom for any civilized society and should not have any place in the land of Martin Luther King and Lincoln.

For sure, we do not want our children to live with the caste pride or caste humiliation.

Law is the only way to wipe it out.

Thanks for giving me

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Karthikeyan Shanmugam.

Good afternoon.

I'm S. Karthikeyan, working as a software engineer.

I'm part of Ambedkar King Study Circle.

Many Indians in the United States are very conscious about their caste identity, which I have experienced.

And the same is stood out in the testimonies collected by Ambedkar King Study Circle in the month of July and August 2020. followed by a Cisco caste discrimination case filed by Civil Rights Department, California.

Self-outing and outing of caste is very problematic for the oppressed caste workers.

A couple of years back, when we had lunch in our office cafeteria, a woman employee from the so-called upper caste outed her caste for no reason.

The conversation was about a movie and a movie actress.

She continues saying that there is an annual meeting of very caste people in the United States.

When the dominant caste people organize themselves culturally or ethnically or any other means, it will have an inevitable impact on the marginalized and social exclusion and denial of opportunity and access to economic and social resources.

Hence, I urge the democrats in the city council to join the council.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Bipasha Mukherjee.

by Pasha.

Okay, we're moving to.

Good afternoon.

Thank you.

Good afternoon.

My name is Bipasha.

Immigration to the U.S. favored college-educated, socioeconomically advantaged upper-caste families like mine from India.

The tech sector of the past two decades has increased immigration of caste-oppressed communities.

But caste discrimination is not just something out there.

It's happening in our backyard.

CAST is like race issues in America and has real consequences.

I work in mental health and have supported people of King County as a crisis line volunteer for over 25 years.

I know firsthand how discrimination of various sorts impacts people's mental health causing anxiety depression even suicidality.

Being that CAST is not a protected category nothing can be done if something brings a complaint.

Please change that.

Protect people's mental health by making Seattle truly a city that values equity.

I urge council please pass the ordinance to ban caste discrimination in Seattle.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Ram Kumar.

Good afternoon.

I'm Ram Kumar, Indian American and a member of AIC and engineer in high-tech sector by profession.

I support caste to be outlawed and banned in the city of Seattle.

In my previous two decades of experience working in different high-tech companies, I have seen different ways and the tactics of the so-called upper caste Hindus from South Asia having discriminated.

I would like to bring to your attention a very recent example that one of the persons started sending e-mails, mass e-mails, to organizations and individuals, professors, HR managers, and mentioning that Low-cost SC, STOBs are coming to USA.

Boycott them.

Don't hire them.

Teachers, please fail them.

Throw a stone when you see them because they don't deserve to work in the high-tech sector.

And surprisingly, I did not receive any email on the thread asking him to stop such a hateful agenda, meaning this is normal and nothing wrong in it.

This person claims to be very accomplished and working in very high-tech companies.

This shows how dangerous this hidden agenda is going on to oppress the lower-cost people.

Please help them and outlaw the caste in the theatre.

It is a need.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Sally Thompson.

Thank you.

I am Sally.

I am a resident of Seattle and I work here as an architectural designer.

I urge all council members to pass an ordinance to make discrimination illegal in Seattle.

I come from an oppressed caste in India and the stories of my ancestors have been those of forced labor and oppression until we won a democratic right to equality.

Unfortunately, we continue to face violent crimes.

When I moved to the United States for my master's degree, my struggles with caste discrimination followed, and the social exclusion of Dalit students and microaggressions towards us is a common practice amongst Indian student communities in the U.S.

The hidden biases of caste is a reality for generations of Indian immigrants here.

However, we do not have the legal protection against this discrimination.

I urge the council to make caste discrimination illegal in Seattle for many, many such students and working professionals who seek legal protection for themselves and their families.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Nithya Krishnamurthy.

Nithya Krishnamurthy.

Hi, I'm Nithya.

I'm a member of the Mid-Circuit King Study Circle.

I urge all Seattle City Council members to vote yes on the proposal to ban caste-based discrimination.

Being a member of the dominant caste, I've been privy to conversations that are discriminatory in nature, such as when an acquaintance from my caste who works as a nanny told me that she only chooses to work for people from our caste.

I've also been asked if I know and can recommend priests from the dominant caste that folks can employ for their ceremonies.

I've also seen a catering service in the California Bay Area promising muddy sapada, that is ritually pure food, which amongst other things means that it hasn't been defiled by the touch or even the glance of a person from the depressed caste.

All of the above indicate that employment discrimination based on caste exists here in the US.

I urge the council to outlaw caste discrimination, a step in the right direction for a more equitable society.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Sree with the last initial A.

Sree, S-R-E-E-N.

Hi, my name is Sree.

I'm a software engineer from the Bay Area.

I urge all the Democrats in the City Council to join Council Member Sarbanes in banning caste-based discrimination.

I work for a large multinational tech firm after finishing my master's in Washington.

In both regions, I have seen people from the South Asian subcontinent use vegetarianism, affirmative action, last names, and various other caste notations to out-segregate and ostracize members of the oppressed caste.

Subsystems of caste oppression are being milked in the USA, in the USA's universities, tech firms, and beyond.

In universities, students segregate themselves based on caste using these caste notations.

They keep tools that are important like good housing or job openings and reference from their social circles within the dominant group.

My wife, my partner is of oppressed caste background and she has faced caste oppression in the U.S.

I would urge.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Aneon with the last initial N.

Hi I go by Indian or Ambika and I'm a non-binary Indian caste privileged person with relatives working in tech here in Seattle.

Tech in America and in Seattle is home to caste oppression.

It's been documented at Google Cisco and Microsoft and it's parodied that we bring these protections here to Seattle too.

If I experience discrimination for my race my gender or sexuality I could find justice through the law.

But here in America there is no existing legislation for my caste oppressed peers to find justice when they are mistreated in housing, employment, and education.

An article published in Harvard Law Review finds that CAS is intersectional and affects people based on race, color, ancestry, and nationality.

These are all protected classes, but CAS, which is very similar, must be given the same protections, too.

Across the nation, universities like UC Davis, the Cal State System, Brown University, Brandeis, and the Harvard Graduate Student Workers Union have banned CAS protections, and it's time for Seattle to do the same.

You can make a difference, and I urge you to support making caste discrimination illegal in Seattle.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Austin Price.

Hi there.

My name is Austin Price.

I'm a member of Socialist Alternative, and I'm just calling today to say I urge all Democrats in the Seattle City Council to vote yes on the proposal from community members and Council Member Shyamalan to ban caste-based discrimination in our city.

We've heard plenty of moving testimony from people who have experienced it or witnessed it themselves.

And I just think it's time that if Seattle is really dedicated to being a bastion of equality and protection for all civil rights that we need to step up and get preemptive about this.

Like we're already seeing this discrimination that I think a lot of people don't even think about at all is much more insidious and much more pronounced than a lot of us are fortunate enough to never have to deal with.

And if we're really committed to equality and making sure that this staying at the forefront of civil rights while we've seen other businesses and we've seen other cities and we've seen universities start to fight.

And I think it's time to join in.

That's about it.

Everybody else has said this more eloquently than I can.

So thank y'all.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Shahira with the last initial K.

Hello, council members.

My name is Shahira.

I am a caste oppressed woman myself, and I have seen and faced discrimination here in the diaspora.

It is crystal clear that caste is absolutely feminist, queer, workers, and human rights issue.

Caste-based discrimination has been reported and documented within major universities, tech companies, and among restaurant workers.

We deserve protections, and the time for adding caste in all American institutions and all over the country is long overdue.

There are many caste-oppressed folks who do not report discrimination because there are no legal protections that are not broadly recognized yet.

Seattle would be taking the lead in the historical battles for caste equity and ensuring that the necessary protections would be put into place for caste-depressed Americans.

As a caste-depressed woman I am thrilled that Seattle is even considering making caste-based discrimination illegal.

I do deeply urge that the City Council take this important step forward and fight in the and fight against caste-based discrimination in the United States.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Bhargavi Garimella.

Hi my name is Bhargavi.

I'm speaking as an upper-caste ally to caste abolition.

I urge Seattle to take the historic and consequential step to ban caste discrimination.

As a student I've seen how other caste-privileged young South Asian people knowingly and unknowingly continue to uphold caste power and discriminate.

Even in elementary school I remember a Brahmin family refusing to allow their child to interact with a child from a caste-oppressed family.

The grip caste power has on our societies economies and relationships is deep and historical.

In its face we must do everything we can to protect those who are deemed disposable by the system.

Please vote yes and give caste-oppressed people the protection they need.

It is the only humanitarian option.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is John Pincus.

I'm John Pincus, a longtime King County resident.

As a technology executive and an activist, I've worked closely with South Asian Americans and learned just how real and pernicious caste discrimination is.

You've heard many examples already.

Here's one more.

In May 2021, the FBI began investigating alleged trafficking of Dalit workers from India forced to do manual labor in servitude for substandard pay under abysmal conditions, not even allowed to see their families.

There are a lot of parallels between the struggles of Black Americans and the Dalits at the lowest rung of the caste system who are considered untouchables.

When Dr. Martin Luther King visited India, he was introduced as a fellow untouchable.

He was shocked at first, but when he reflected on it, he said, yes, I am an untouchable.

And every Negro in the United States of America is an untouchable.

Two years ago, the NAACP passed a resolution opposing the practice of the CAF system in the United States.

So I urge the city council to ban CAF-based discrimination in Seattle.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Mark Taylor Canfield.

I'm Mark Taylor Canfield.

I serve as executive director for...

Are you still there?

has the lowest impact of any property.

It's much less likely for people to survive.

The change that most of the population of our city would expect from the approval of Initiative 135 to provide permanent publicly owned housing are actually the least likely to vote.

If our city's economic refugee camps were located on international borders, they would qualify for assistance from the Red Cross, United Nations, and other humanitarian relief organizations.

But instead, they're swept by police and ignored by our national political leaders, despite their political affiliations.

Seattle has a chance to set a standard for the rest of the world.

Right now, $5,000 per month are the rents in some of the new buildings in Seattle.

More than 25,000 people are living on the street or in emergency and transitional housing across the state.

According to the Washington Department of Commerce, the state will need to build one more new homes by 2044 to meet the demand.

We need to be subsidized housing.

I urge the city council to do everything it can to alleviate this problem.

And everyone, please vote for

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Vinod Kumar.

Hi, my name is Vinod Kumar.

I work in the medical industry and I suffer through the same, you know, cost discrimination from one of my, some other senior manager belong to upper cost people.

They never get me a chance to get my promotion on base of the cost system.

The cost system needs to be banned all over America because the people are suffering, but it's hard to prove for them in every sector.

But in every sector, we need to ban and protect cost-based discrimination.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Ajay Kamble.

Hi.

I would like to ask the Seattle City Council members to say yes and pass this ordinance, please.

When we talk about caste, it's not much different from other forms of discrimination that the people in this room have witnessed, stood up against, drafted legislation, and brought about awareness in our society.

In this particular case, we identify it as caste, and I identify as a Dalit.

In my opinion, the motivation of caste apartheid can be addressed by adding caste to existing legislation and by adding cap to it we would be achieving parity with what the rest of the great people of this amazing country.

We have been discriminated against for our work retaliated against for just speaking of our identities.

This legislation shall allow those fortunate enough to be in this great country to fight for it and bring about a change for the better.

My neighbors who are associated with a radical right-wing Hindu Association under the pretense of being purely cultural brandish their costs and supremacy without any concern.

Please end caste apartheid.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Manmeet Singh.

Hi.

Can you all hear me?

Yes.

Okay.

Hi, everybody.

My name is Manmeet.

I'm joining in from the CSU, California State University system, to voice support for the resolution to add caste as a protected category and ban caste discrimination.

Just recently, the CSU actually became the first and the largest for your public university system in the nation to add CAS.

And I'm super excited to see the city of Seattle also to be considering CAS and joining this very historic moment right now.

So I urge you all to voice your support and put yourself on the right side of history and add CAS as a protected category and ban CAS discrimination in Seattle.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Jeremy Rinker.

Jeremy, are you there?

Okay, we're gonna skip over Jeremy for now, and the next speaker will be Logan Swan.

Hi, my name is Logan Swan.

I'm a District 2 renter and a union iron worker.

I'm calling in support of Council Member Swan's legislation to include CAS as a protected category against discrimination, and I urge the Democrats on the Council to vote in favor.

This is an important workers' rights issue particularly considering the number of South Asians employed in our large tech industry.

This legislation would build on successful movements where California universities have banned caste discrimination and the Alphabet Workers Union of Google Workers calls for a fight for the civil rights of caste-oppressed people.

With the leadership of Trump's Socialist Council Office working working with workers and immigrant communities Seattle has the opportunity to once again lead the nation in becoming the first city passing state caste protections.

Internationally, Malentum here will help push back on Modi's right-wing regime, which has been viciously attacking the rights of workers in oppressed communities in India.

We need to build a fighting campaign to win this legislation and to fight for workers' rights.

If you're listening and you support us, please sign the petition on Council Member Sawant's office website.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Khanna Ghalakshmi Ramesh.

Panagalakshmi Ramesh.

OK.

We will go on to Bonnie Zare.

Our next speaker is Bonnie Zare.

Hello.

Hello this is Bonnie Zare.

I'm a South Asian Studies scholar from Virginia Tech and I have family living in Seattle.

I think that non-South Asian Americans sometimes get confused and they get afraid to act.

owing to thinking that they don't understand the situation.

Casteism is a threat of violence.

It is slurs.

It is housing discrimination.

It is being afraid to reveal your surname.

And it is an inability to be yourself.

And you can love and welcome India, Indian culture, Indianness, and also simultaneously be against social exclusion.

I urge you to pass this ordinance outlawing caste oppression.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next speaker is Sandeep with the last initial K.

Sandeep.

Hello.

Thank you, council members.

My name is Sandeep Roy.

And I want to congratulate and thank the council for taking up this historic ordinance.

And this is something that is not only a problem of microscopic minority, but it is now becoming an American problem.

When I came from India to the United States, I thought I'll escape the shackles and the monster of caste, but I faced discrimination multiple times in the U.S., something that I had never expected would happen.

You have heard from a lot of members here who have talked about the horrors of caste, and now I urge all of you to pass this ordinance with a unanimous vote so that you send a message, not just to the rest of the United States, but throughout the world, that you care and you champion the human rights of all.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Our last speaker is Nishant Totla.

Nishant?

Hi.

Can you hear me?

Yes.

Hey, everyone.

My name is Nishant and I am an immigrant from India, currently working in the United States.

I come from a privileged caste background.

And what I would like to point out is that at a lot of companies, big tech companies like Microsoft, Google, Facebook, et cetera, that have offices in Seattle, there have been comments, really hateful comments made against members of oppressed castes and Dalits in particular.

all comments that would be punishable by law in India.

However, we don't have any such law that calls out such instances in the U.S., and so it's really important, and I commend the Seattle City Council for taking this up.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

That concludes our remote speakers, Council President.

We may have one additional remote speaker that was able to get back online and that is Kana Galakshmi Ramesh.

And remember to press star six.

Oh, you've got it, we see you.

Yeah, I'm in and thank you for letting me in.

I really appreciate you guys taking this action for discrimination.

And I want to start with the quote of Marshall Luther King's.

Injustice anywhere in the world is a threat to justice everywhere.

So definitely being here in Bay Area I still feel we have to stop this discrimination anywhere.

That's why I want to be part of this.

And I have experienced a lot of discrimination myself and I know without knowing I myself have done this kind of discrimination to people.

So after coming to Ambedkar King Study Circle, I was able to realize the actions we normally do are something we really discriminate people without knowing.

So.

Thank you.

And that concludes our remote speakers, Council President.

Great.

Thank you.

So we have done what folks in chambers, I want to thank all of you who showed up today in chambers and those of you who called in regarding.

The ordinance and the issue of adding, should I count it up twenty two times?

The class, the cast, I'm sorry, system, and we all think customers want for getting that to us and her staff.

OK, so now that we've reached the end of public comment, we'll move on in our agenda.

First of all, let's go to adoption of the introduction referral calendar.

If there's no objection, the IRC is adopted.

I mean, yeah, I'm the calendar.

It will be adopted.

Not seeing or hearing an objection.

The introduction of the introduction referral calendar is adopted.

Second is the adoption of the agenda.

There's no objection.

The agenda will be adopted.

Not hearing or seeing objection, the agenda is adopted.

All right, let's move on to adoption of the consent calendar.

So you all have in front of you the proposed consent calendar items on the consent calendar include the minutes of January 17th, twenty twenty three.

payroll bill, council bill 120495. Are there any items that my colleagues would like removed to discuss later on in the agenda?

All right, not seeing or hearing none, I move to adopt the consent calendar.

Is there a second?

Second.

Sorry, I can't hear.

Second.

Okay, great.

Didn't hear the volume on that.

Thank you.

It has been moved and seconded, so I move to adopt the consent calendar.

And the consent calendar is now adopted.

Council President Juarez, I can do a roll call for you.

Oh, I'm sorry.

I got ahead on the script.

Thank you.

Thank you.

You're very kind to do it that way.

Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll on the consent calendar?

Councilmember Herbold?

Yes.

Councilmember Lewis?

Yes.

Councilmember Morales?

Yes.

Councilmember Nelson?

Aye.

Councilmember Peterson?

Aye.

Councilmember Sawant?

Yes.

Councilmember Strauss?

Yes.

And Council President Juarez?

Aye.

Eight in favor, none opposed.

Thank you.

The consent calendar is adopted.

And Madam Clerk, will you please affix my signature to the minutes in legislation on the consent calendar on my behalf?

And I apologize for getting a little ahead of myself on the on the script here.

Moving along on the agenda to committee reports today, we have four items and I believe the first three will we will be hearing from Council Member Lewis and item number four will be hearing from Council Member Peterson.

So with that, Madam Clerk, will you please read item one into the record?

The report of the Public Assets and Homelessness Committee Agenda Item 1, Council Bill 120484, an ordinance authorizing the Director of Finance and Administrative Services to execute a Fifth Amendment to the Lease and Concession Agreement between the City of Seattle and BH Music Center for Benaroya Hall.

The committee recommends the bill pass as amended.

Thank you.

Council Member Lewis, you are recognized to provide your report.

Thank you, Council President.

This is the first piece of legislation to come out of the committee last week, Council Bill 120484. As the clerk stated, this would be the fifth amendment to the city's ongoing lease agreement with Benaroya Hall as regards to the lease would allow us to be able to use the money that is generated on the parcel to be reinvested in certain capital improvements and obligations that

Thank you, Councilmember Lewis.

Are there any comments from my colleagues before I hand it off to Councilmember Lewis to see if he has any closing remarks?

Not seeing any.

Councilmember Lewis, is there anything else you want to add before we go to a vote?

Nothing more, Council President.

Thank you.

Will the clerk please call the roll on the passage of the bill?

Councilmember Herbold?

Yes.

Councilmember Lewis?

Yes.

Councilmember Morales?

Yes.

Councilmember Nielsen.

Aye.

Councilmember Peterson.

Aye.

Councilmember Sawant.

Yes.

Councilmember Strauss.

Yes.

And Council President Juarez.

Aye.

Eight in favor, none opposed.

Thank you.

The bill passes.

The chair will sign it.

And Madam Clerk, please affix my signature to the legislation on my behalf.

Moving on to item number two.

Madam Clerk, will you please read item number two into the record?

Item two, Council Bill 120492, an ordinance relating to the maintenance and operations for the waterfront park and public spaces, authorizing the superintendent of Seattle Parks and Recreation to delegate certain central waterfront maintenance operations and management to the Seattle Center Department, delegating authority to the Seattle Center Director to enforce waterfront park and public spaces rules, and authorizing extension of the existing pilot agreement with Friends of the Waterfront Seattle, the committee recommends the bill pass as amended.

Thank you, Council Member Lewis.

I'll turn it over to you, Mr. Chairman.

≫ Thank you, Council President.

This ordinance, council bill 120492 relates to our ongoing discussion that we have been having for several months, potentially more than a year now, about the larger role that the department of the Seattle center will have in the activation and management of the waterfront space.

that the department of the Seattle Center has been providing on their own campus for many years and that could be emulated and used in this space on the Seattle waterfront as well.

We did have a long discussion about this legislation over the course of two hearings.

It ultimately passed the committee with a unanimous recommendation that it be adopted at this meeting today.

Thank you, Council Member Lewis.

Are there any comments from our colleagues?

not seen any.

Councilmember Lewis, is there any closing comments before we go to a vote?

No, I'm ready to vote.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Will the clerk please call the roll on the passage of the bill?

Councilmember Herbold?

Thank you.

Councilmember Lewis?

Yes.

Councilmember Morales?

Yes.

Councilmember Nelson?

Aye.

Councilmember Peterson?

Aye.

Councilmember Solant?

Yes.

Councilmember Strauss?

Yes.

And Council President Juarez?

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the city of Seattle waterfront park and the city of Seattle waterfront park and the city of Seattle waterfront park.

Thank you, Council President.

This bill is somewhat related to the ordinance that we just considered, this Council Bill 120496. This similarly relates to the Seattle Waterfront Park, and it essentially manifests the parts of this relationship that involve the Friends of the Waterfront, the nonprofit organization that we do a lot of the work with to activate the waterfront park, most famously, with the pier that we opened early down there as a public space that we've had lots of city events at.

And similarly, we had a discussion about this that overlaps significantly with the previous ordinance and the Seattle Center authority authorizations and ultimately passed this with a unanimous recommendation.

Thank you, Councilmember Lewis.

Are there any comments or concerns from our colleagues regarding this piece of legislation?

councilmember Nielsen.

Councilmember Herbold.

Anything else to add, Mr. Lewis?

Councilmember Lewis?

No, thank you, Council President.

Thank you.

Will the clerk please call the roll on the passage of the bill?

Councilmember Herbold?

Yes.

Councilmember Lewis?

Yes.

Councilmember Morales?

Yes.

Councilmember Nielsen?

Aye.

Thank you.

The bill passes.

The chair will sign it.

And Madam Clerk, please affix my signature to the legislation on my behalf.

And so it looks like we're moving over to item number four.

We have some legislation on the Transportation and Public Utilities Committee, and that would be Council Member Peterson.

So Madam Clerk, can you please read item four into the record?

The report of the Transportation and Seattle Public Utilities Committee agenda item four, Council Bill 120493, an ordinance relating to use of bus and shuttle vehicle zones by private employer shuttle vehicles, making permanent the Seattle Department of Transportation's Employer Shared Transit Stop Pilot Program, amending sections of the Seattle Municipal Code, and adopting a transit and mobility fee schedule.

The committee recommends the bill pass as amended.

Thank you.

Council Member Peterson, you're chair of the committee.

Thank you, Council President.

Our Transportation Committee received a report back in September of last year about SDOT's shared transit stop pilot program.

SDOT has been studying the pilot for several years.

It is supported by King County Metro, and the Harrell administration is ready to solidify it through today's legislation.

As many of you know, our shared transit stop program works with large employers that use their own shuttle systems, including the University of Washington and Seattle Children's Hospital.

These shuttles encourage more commuters to leave behind their single occupancy vehicles at home.

The pilot program has been a success and last week our committee advanced SDOT's Council Bill 120493 to formalize the program.

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

Councilmember Silva?

that will encourage commuters to get out of their cars.

I understand there is an amendment that we will be considering today as well.

Thank you.

I'll let you close this out, but I'll go back now.

I'm going to open the floor and I believe Council Member Morales has something for us.

Yes.

Thank you, Council President.

I move amendment A as posted on the agenda.

Is there a second to Council Member Morales' amendment?

Second.

Thank you.

It's been moved and seconded to amend the council bill as presented on amendment A on the agenda.

Now, Council Member Morales, you are now recognized to address your amendment.

Great.

Well, thank you very much, colleagues.

I do want to start by thanking Calvin from our central staff for his help in drafting this.

As we know, SDOT has existing authority to regulate the right-of-way and permit such uses as the shared transit stop.

This is how it has been operating since 2017. And legislation that's before us right now would make minor code updates and authorize SDOT to charge a permit fee to recover the cost of the program.

The amendment that I'm proposing would expire as Stott's authority to charge a fee and recover costs after June 2026. As we know, this program started in 2017. It was sort of disrupted by COVID.

And so what I'm asking or what I'm trying to do with this amendment is to give us another three years to monitor the program and then require that they come back to council to demonstrate that the shared program should continue.

I will say I've got a couple of concerns.

As I mentioned in briefing, I'm concerned about our growing reprioritization of public space for private use.

We already overwhelmingly appropriate the public right of way for private car parking.

And I fully understand SDOT's goal and share SDOT's goal in providing more options for people to commute in a climate conscious way.

I appreciate that there are employers throughout the city who are also providing greener options for their employees to commute.

There are certainly clear benefits to this program, and there is a potential for undermining our our goal of getting a more robust public transit routes if we are leaving it to private companies to provide the service between communities and these places of employment.

The goal of this amendment is to have SDOT use this time the next three years to evaluate and determine whether this form of privatized mobility competes with our public transportation resources.

It does leave to the department the discretion about how best to monitor impacts and outcomes.

And it would require that the department come back to council in three years for reauthorization if that is determined to be the best solution.

I will say that we did speak with folks at SDOT.

We took their suggestion to adjust the date.

I did have a March date at first, so we moved that to June and otherwise, we understand that there is no objection from the department.

Just clarification before I open the floor.

Councilor Morales, you said it's now June 2026. Yes.

Okay.

So I'm going to open the floor and I see that Council Member Herbold has her hand up first.

Council Member Herbold.

Thank you.

The effect statement for this amendment says future council authorizations would be required to continue the program after the expiration date.

I just want to clarify.

There's not a requirement to allow the program to expire and then reauthorize.

We could, assuming that SDOT delivers the deliverable in time, we could reauthorize the program before the expiration date for a seamless continuation of the program.

Is that not the intent?

Okay.

Thank you.

Oh, I see two Council Member Herbold tiles, so I'm guessing.

With that, Council Member Nelson.

Just for my clarification, has Metro expressed any concern about this program?

About the shared transit program?

Yeah.

Not that I am aware, but I will acknowledge I didn't speak to Metro about this.

I always spoke to SDOT.

Okay.

Councilor Nelson, is there more you want to add?

Well, I see that Council Member Peterson just put his hand up.

Yeah, I know, but I'm, I'm in control here.

No, I'm just trying.

No, thank you.

I just wanted to know the answer to that.

I see his little hand up there.

I want to make sure we got, you got your opportunity.

All right.

So with that, I will go to Councilor Peterson.

Thank you, Council President.

We did reach out to Metro.

King Alley Metro is supportive of the program and concluded the shared stop program would not create a negative impact on transit ridership.

And if I may sort of present an alternative view on the amendment, would this be the time to do that?

It would be.

Okay, so I appreciate the intent of the amendment.

I'm really grateful for Council Member Morales for her early and open communication about the amendment and for her connecting with Estad about it and making that adjustment.

After considering this amendment to sunset the bill in three years, however, I don't think we should change the Herald Administration's bill today to address the concerns raised.

I think imposing a sunset date now could actually hamper the program's goals.

The program has been running successfully for several years.

I've witnessed how this pilot's worked well at several transit stops in my district, the University of Washington, Seattle Children's.

I think the Harrell administration thoughtfully advanced the program.

I believe it will continue to get people successfully out of their single occupancy vehicles, reduce carbon emissions, reduce traffic congestion.

It's important to note that the revenue from the program will help to fund SDOT's transit team that administers the program.

Like I said, King County Metro has been, well, they've been collaborating with SDOT on this program.

So if anybody would be concerned about the impact on shared transit stops, it would be King County Metro, but they are supportive.

Of course, we have the prerogative as City Council to end programs when data supports it.

I'm concerned imposing a sunset in advance would discourage employers from investing in van pulls, shuttles, green fleets, and then you end up having people just driving their cars instead.

The director's rule already enables us not to revoke permits.

That's the purpose of the program is to be able to then revoke if problems arise or make adjustments.

They already promised to come back in 2 years for a full review of this program so it could be looked at even earlier than 2026 so.

It's in some I appreciate all the hard work.

The Herald administration their team put into this program.

I'll be voting no on the amendment in order to fully green light the program.

Thank you.

Let me just clarify one issue, though.

This came out of your committee without this amendment.

You know, not unanimously.

You had one person that abstained.

But the issue was this issue did come up, you know, was raised early and came into an amendment.

So I appreciate Councilor Morales raising it early.

So let me do a point of order.

Councilor Strauss, I do see your hand up.

I don't want to turn this into a committee hearing.

So was this addressed in committee and now it's coming back again, just so I have clarification?

Council President, I raised the question of whether this was something that we should contemplate reviewing again and decided to turn that question into an amendment after committee.

Okay.

Thank you, Council Member Morales.

Council Member Strauss and then Council Member Nelson.

Thank you, Council President.

Council Member Morales, I'm just checking.

I know that you addressed some of your concerns, but I'm still not quite understanding what are the concerns moving forward.

Is it that the initial study period was during the pandemic and you wanna make sure that there's a study period after the deep pandemic?

Is that the intent of this?

The intent is just for us to have a better understanding.

The study itself was sort of disrupted for several years and as we are moving back in and allowing the program to continue and considering making these fees permanent and making the changes to stops, permanent providing public assets, public space to private entities, that we are doing so really understanding that that is necessary because there isn't going to be an increase in public transit service.

So I am interested in making sure that we aren't privatizing public space and sort of giving that space over to private entities if we could instead be increasing our public transit service to community members.

Thank you.

Okay, thank you.

That's very helpful, although we do not provide point-to-point transit service from businesses that employ high numbers of employees that reside in the city.

So that's more of a subjective.

Just wanting to check in, are there certain stakeholders that are interested in this?

And maybe did I miss some outreach regarding the reason for a sunset?

No, I'm just interested in making sure that as we hand over land and as we privatize space that we're doing it with the intention of making those that transit.

more available because we know that the public transit agency is not going to be providing that service.

I'm really trying to understand the destination.

We don't understand what the uptake is going to be.

I know we are expanding the number of stops throughout the city pretty substantially.

but we don't really know what is expected in terms of the number of employers or the number of riders or the destination of these riders and so I think it is important that as the program rolls out for the next few years that we are collecting that information and I know that SDOT does intend to collect that information so we have a better understanding of where the ridership needs are, where the preferred destinations are, and have an understanding of whether it is possible for our public transit agency to meet those needs instead.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

I know that we had this very similar conversation with the Safe Starts permit, the pathway to permanency to create outdoor dining as a permanent aspect of Seattle's fabric, where we are essentially privatizing public space in our right-of-way.

And during that discussion, a very similar discussion, there was a proposal to I think in the same vein where I'm going to land If it was simply regarding a study and mandating a study, I would be all there with you.

By taking the next step for putting a sunset on this, I can't vote yes on that.

So just for the viewing public's understanding, fully supportive of the study, cannot get to an expiration today.

Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Strauss.

Council Member Nelson.

So just a slightly different perspective, but I hear the concerns about the privatization of public space, but I'm concerned that including a sunset will decrease participation in this program because uncertainty over the longevity of the program will, I think, increase employers' financial risk.

And that's because to to participate in this program, they'll have to make long-term plans for labor costs and also make significant capital investments in those vehicles.

And the depreciation schedule for vehicles is about five years, exceeding the two or three years in which this sunset could occur so it just kind of comes down to whether or not the, the employer will have an asset on the books that they can't use and then if they sell them they'll incur that tax burden so long story short, I, I support this program because We really have to focus on revitalizing downtown and other business districts.

And to do that, we need to encourage workers to return to the office.

And a good way to do that is to provide reliable and convenient transit.

So, you know, this this bill allows us to accomplish a couple of these policy goals.

And so that's why I'll be supporting it in general.

All right.

I am going to make a few comments and then I'm going to let Councilmember Morales close us out on the amendment before we go to a vote.

I'm inclined to support Councilmember Peterson and Councilmember Nelson's position and Councilmember Strauss's.

While I appreciate it, I think if you were to have a automatic sunset, that's going to have a chilling effect on the program and hurt the overall intent, which of course, if you're in private or public business, it is going to impact the longevity of the program, planning, capital investments.

I feel more comfortable when something is more secure.

And then as Council Member Herbold had raised, there's nothing stopping Seattle City Council between now and 2026 from reexamining that or looking at that.

So it isn't like our hands are tied.

So with that, I do support the overall bill, but unfortunately, I cannot be I cannot be supportive of the amendment.

So with that, council member Casper has her hand up and then I will let council members close this out.

Councilmember Herbold?

I appreciate it.

I just wanted to clarify the point in my question was to suggest that perhaps we're looking at this amendment unnecessarily negatively rather than saying, oh, the program's sun setting.

I prefer to look at it as the amendment requires reauthorization of the program and that that could be done at any time before the June deadline.

So I think language is really important.

And I think talking about sunsetting a program that many of us support sort of puts a little bit of a spin on the amendment that I'm not feeling.

I feel like this is little more than a requirement to reauthorize a program.

But that said, I only offer that to sort of clarify why I was asking about the ability of the council to act before the deadline, just to make clear that though the intent statement made it sound as if it must it must sunset before we act to reinstate it.

That isn't in fact the case.

So thank you.

Okay.

Council Member Morales, do you want to close this out before we go to a vote?

Sure.

I'll just say that if the goal of the program really is to get people out of their cars, then the program itself should be competing as an option for folks in single occupancy vehicles.

not competing with transit.

And that is my fear that the way that it is structured now, it could create that situation.

And so the intent here is, as Council Member Herbold said, to require some study for the next few years and for the department to come back and support reauthorization with the kind of information that can help us make a decision, a determination about whether that competition with the public system is, in fact, happening or not.

So I urge support for the amendment, and thank you for the discussion.

Thank you, Councilman Morales.

So with that, Madam Clerk, will you please call the roll on the passage of Amendment A to Council Bill 120243?

Councilmember Herbold?

Yes.

Councilmember Lewis?

No.

Councilmember Morales?

Yes.

Councilmember Nelson?

Aye.

Councilmember Peterson?

No.

Councilmember Sawant?

Yes.

Councilmember Strauss?

No.

And Council President Juarez?

Aye.

That's three in favor, five opposed.

So the amendment fails.

and we will move forward on the underlying legislation, correct?

Correct.

Okay.

Yes, you can take it.

Council Member Peterson can close this out on his bill and then we can take a vote.

I was just going to go there.

Thank you, Jodi.

Council Member Peterson, do you want to close this out, as Jodi said, on the underlying legislation?

Then we will call roll.

So I think you want to add.

Thank you, Council President.

I just this was a really good process that we went through.

Of course, I'm happy that the amendment didn't pass, but I mean, it did really feel like there was a good process here where we were alerted early to the amendment and there was a discussion.

And then just even now, we had a great back and forth about it.

So I just I just want to say I was really pleased with this process and believe this program is a good program and can be revisited in a couple years when SDOT comes back with all the data.

Thank you.

Thank you.

I also want to thank Council Member Morales who is always very kind in giving us the information and providing us and having an open discussion.

So thank you also Council Member Morales.

Okay, so with that now that I'm done thanking everybody per Council Member Mosqueda's style, will the clerk please call the roll on the passage of the bill?

Council Member Herbold?

Yes.

Council Member Lewis?

Yes.

Council Member Morales?

Yes.

Council Member Nelson?

Aye.

Council Member Peterson?

Yes.

Council Member Sawant?

Yes.

Council Member Strauss?

Yes.

Council President Juarez?

Yes.

Eight in favor, none opposed.

Thank you.

The bill passes.

The chair will sign it.

Madam Clerk, will you please affix my signature to the legislation on my behalf?

Moving along on our agenda, we are down to items removed from the consent calendar.

Nope.

Adoption of other resolutions, I don't see any.

Is there any other business before I actually adjourn to come before council?

I don't see any hands up, so let's see.

Colleagues, this does conclude the items of business on today's agenda.

The next meeting for us for Seattle City Council will be held next Tuesday, January 31st.

And thank you all.

Have a great afternoon.

We are adjourned.

Recording stopped.

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