SPEAKER_21

It is 2-0-2 and the September 12, 2024 meeting of the Governance, Accountability, and Economic Development Committee will come to order.

I'm Sara Nelson, chair of the committee.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

SPEAKER_20

Councilmember Kettle?

Here.

Councilmember Hollingsworth?

SPEAKER_21

Present.

SPEAKER_20

Councilmember Rivera?

Chair Nelson?

SPEAKER_21

Present.

Four present.

Thank you.

All right, on today's agenda, we've got a public hearing and possible vote on Council Bill 120831, the West Seattle Junction BIA Amendment.

A discussion and possible vote on Council Bill 120827, the Music Venue Loading Zone Permit Program Ordinance.

And just to note, my office has distributed additional materials on that previous to this meeting.

an appointment, which is clerk file 03004, to the Civil Service Commission and a reappointment, clerk file 03005, of that same person as the first appointment ends in December.

And then finally, a briefing and discussion of appointment of clerk file 02930, appointing Mia Hashemi as the Director of the Office of Intergovernmental Relations.

All right, if there is no objection, the agenda will be approved.

Hearing none, the agenda is adopted.

With that, we'll move into public comment on those agenda items.

And please note that if you are here for the public hearing, please hold your comments until that part of our agenda.

So we're just now opening public comment on the items on the agenda.

Clerk, how many people have signed up to give comment?

SPEAKER_20

seven virtual and one in person for public comment.

SPEAKER_21

Okay, thank you very much.

Let's start with the one in person commenter and everyone will get two minutes.

Please read the instructions.

SPEAKER_20

I'll call on speakers in the order they signed up to speak, starting with in-person commenters.

As Council President Nelson mentioned, speakers will have two minutes.

When you hear the chime, you will have 10 seconds left.

If you exceed that time, your microphone may be cut off so that we can move on to the next speaker.

If you're offering remote public comment, please make sure to press star six to unmute yourself.

And for the first in-person commenter, it's going to be Alex Zimmerman.

Thank you.

Zimmerman.

SPEAKER_05

Ze heil, my dirty damn Nazi district.

SPEAKER_21

Please stop.

I remind you that abusive language and disruptive behavior is not allowed in council meetings.

Please refrain from such language.

SPEAKER_05

This is regular language.

I speak this language for a thousand times.

What's going on?

I'm doing everything legal.

You know this.

You want to interrupt me?

Nothing you understand.

What is it?

Yeah.

Damn Nazi fascist junta.

Yeah.

My name is Alex Zimmerman.

I want to speak about agenda number five.

Intercommunication relation.

We don't have intercommunication relation.

Absolutely not.

For the last five years, I never see this.

Three years, I never see this.

It's gone forever.

For example, intergovernment communication, this means between government and people.

You don't have public hearing, no Q&A, never.

Seven people never have this.

Why?

Why this before I doing this and in many meetings right now you don't doing this?

Why?

Is this communication between government and people?

Exactly not.

You look what this Mayor Harrell did, you know what this mean?

For three year, he don't have one Q&A.

See floor, close seventh floor, so you cannot ever go and complain.

And call to him, I never see answer.

Guys, you understand, and you talk, I cannot talk, and so you acting like a Nazi, Gestapo, fascist.

You are a Nazi, Gestapo, fascist.

SPEAKER_21

Stop, please have a seat.

SPEAKER_05

No, but this exactly what is you doing?

Come on.

Please mute the mic for the remainder of this time.

When you doing exactly same.

Where is the problem?

We need your Q&A every month.

We need Q&A from .

Three years you're not doing it.

SPEAKER_21

You may now proceed with the remote speakers, please.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

All right.

The next virtual public commenter will be Andrew Gustav.

You've been unmuted.

SPEAKER_17

Hi, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, the city council.

First and foremost, thank you for taking the time to hear my comments today.

My name is Andrew Gustav.

I am the head of school of Tilden School.

which is located in the 4700 block of California Avenue.

So we would be actually at the very far end of the expansion of the junction BIA.

I'm speaking in favor of this amendment.

I am a lifelong West Seattle resident.

I was born and raised down the Fauntleroy area and then later moved up to Alki.

I've watched this entire neighborhood grow and change from having four car dealerships down on Fauntleroy way to now having mixed use residential and commercial developments just up and down California.

and now I run the very same elementary school to which I once attended.

I have seen the work of the Junction Association and the BIA and how it has really kept the small-town feel of West Seattle while still adapting and becoming part of the Seattle metropolitan area and keeping us just current.

My hope is that by having this amendment go through and having the Junction Association Adopt all the way up to the block that we are located at, we will see a lot of good improvements for my school, which has been here and serving the West Seattle community since 1985. So overall, I really just want to convey that this would benefit the businesses up and down California.

It would expand the heart of West Seattle itself and would be a great way for the community to just grow and expand and modernize as we go.

Thank you for the time.

I yield back whatever's left.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much, Mr. Gustav.

We did request that folks hold their comments for the public hearing section.

You're welcome to stay and deliver that message again.

If not, we will enter your name on the list as having spoken to this issue.

in the public comment period.

So that's up to you.

And this is the first item on the agenda.

I do see that Ray Alva, you are also signed up to give comment during the public hearing section.

So we'll call your name in that section of our agenda.

Thank you very much.

Go ahead with the next speaker.

SPEAKER_20

My apologies again.

Next remote public commenter will be Rochelle Granquist.

You have been unmuted.

SPEAKER_21

Michelle, go ahead and press star six, please.

SPEAKER_11

There we go.

Thank you.

I'm addressing Council Bill 120827, which is regarding the rules for parking and loading at music venue zones.

My name is Rochelle Granquist, and I'm the Director of Facilities at KEXP.

KEXP is a champion of local music and musicians, and we understand and empathize with the challenges that musicians face.

Here at KEXP, we book three to five live performances a week at our facility, and the process to reserve van parking is cumbersome and time-consuming, even with the help and support from Seattle Center.

We send in new date requests every couple days as we book vans.

We have to track permits for each date, print permits, Saturday frames with the permits, provide van parking identification for the van vehicles, and occasionally call the tow vehicles in the reserved spaces.

Vans will come to us in their private vehicles, tour vans, or buses, and they may be towing trailers, and we have to be ready for different configurations every day.

Sometimes our A-frames are stolen and we need to replace them.

Vans currently pay at the meter for the reserve street parking because we've had periods where parking enforcement would issue tickets despite an operating agreement with SDOT and the Seattle Center.

Parking costs around Seattle Center are high, especially on event STREET PARKING HAS TIME LIMITS SO BANDS WILL RECEIVE PARKING TICKETS IN THE RESERVE PARKING IF THEIR SESSION GOES LONG.

ALL OF THESE ARE REASONS WHY WE SHOULD HAVE THESE PARKING AND LOADING AT MUSIC VENUE ZONES.

I'M HEARTENED BY THE WORK OF THE MUSIC COMMISSION AND MAYOR HAROLD TO ADDRESS THIS PAIN POINT IN SEATTLE'S LIVE MUSIC INDUSTRY AND COUNCIL PRESIDENT NELSON FOR WORKING WITH THE COMMISSION AND COUNCIL ON THIS EFFORT.

THE CITY STEPPED UP ONCE TO CREATE PRIORITY LOAD IN AREAS an appreciated step that was mostly symbolic.

We used the next step by adopting this new and improved curbside designation.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next we'll have Shana Foley.

You have been unmuted.

SPEAKER_13

Thank you, Council.

My name is Shana Foley.

I spoke with you last time also about the music venue parking zone ordinance that's going into play.

I'm the general manager for the Crocodile Venues.

I have notes and a lot of feedback from last time we were there in person speaking about this issue.

And so I wanted to give some feedback that I've heard from my vans and my community, as well as address one of the questions presented by a by Rivera on our last meeting, specifically engaged for the artist parking during the moments when we aren't having a performance.

So bands will always be able to use our priority loans and spaces as our number one.

We have been pushing hard for this, and let me tell you, speaking to bands over the last week has been actually enlightening.

We knew they were having trouble, but The number of band members and musicians who I spoke with who listed parking as their number one stressor was a little shocking.

And I do think if this does pass, the council will have the appreciation of a lot of very talented people in our city.

Running a music venue, as many of you know, is a seven-day-a-week, 24-hour-a-day business.

Artist arrival is typically overnight or early in the mornings.

when they're traveling from city to city in a bus or a sprinter.

They load in, on average, five hours before the scheduled showtime starts or it opens to the public.

And even in smaller venues, approximately three hours prior to showtime is for load in, sound check, all of those items.

A lot goes into the production of a live show before the artist even walks through the door.

Some of those things are delivery of supplemental audio, lighting, or video equipment, delivery of instrument rentals like drum kits, pianos, and large amps, delivery of stage risers, trussing, or other heavy staging augments, delivery of chairs or tables if the facility requires changes for the public, delivery of catering, and then for our smaller venues, our owners are constantly loading in items that they've probably gone out and shopped themselves, like consumables and goods for sale like paper, goods, towels, food, beverages, and more.

We would be using those load zone areas for a lot of items unrelated to just the parking of the artist vehicle.

I do think that would make our venues a safer place and our neighborhoods would expect us to be parking in those spaces rather than maybe double parking in the street.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Your time is up.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Next, we have Kitty Wu.

SPEAKER_21

Kitty, you can go ahead and speak.

Press star six.

SPEAKER_14

Thanks for that.

I'm here to express my support for the implementation of the music venue parking zones.

The existing temporary no parking permit system is really cumbersome, expensive, and it's a hardship for both the venue operators and the musicians that are having to navigate the system.

And currently, musicians have to park far from the venue, leaving valuable equipment vulnerable and creating safety concerns.

This program will also keep money in the pockets of musicians.

Establishing dedicated parking zones for music venues would streamline the process and address these issues.

This initiative represents a logical progression from SDOT's pilot program, the Musician Priority Load Zone, and I ask you to support this as it will be greatly beneficial to our local and our touring musicians and enhance the overall experience for performers and venues.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Next, we have Andrea Friedman.

Go ahead.

Andrea?

Andrea, please.

There you go.

SPEAKER_15

Oh, hello.

Um, hello.

My name is Andrea Friedman.

I'm a music commissioner and I have worked in Seattle's music industry for 10 years.

I am calling you to share my support for the music venue permit zone program.

I worked as a talent buyer at the Vera project from 2013 to 2017. And when I first started, we did not have the resources to reserve parking for artists.

They would have to fend for themselves in the busy, lower Queen Anne neighborhood.

Often they would pay to park quite a far distance away or be picketed during a show.

A few local bands told me they wouldn't play at the venue anymore because it was too costly and stressful to deal with the parking, so the gig wasn't worth it.

And I experienced the heartbreak of learning that an artist's vehicle had been broken into during their show multiple times.

Eventually, we were able to partner with KXP and start to reserve parking.

At this point, I was introduced to the cumbersome administrative process of reserving parking for shows three to six nights per week, most weeks of the year.

and the headaches that comes with the unpredictability of the industry, like a band with a sprinter van arrives four hours before their load in time and there's nowhere they can safely park their vehicle and go stretch their legs.

While I left my role at Vera seven years ago, I continued to hear about artists and venue struggles with parking as part of the music community here in Seattle and in my current role at KEXP.

I've been talking with musicians and venue staff about this new curb use designation and the excitement is palpable and the potential impact is clear.

This will greatly improve live music logistics and operations, put money back in the pockets of musicians, decrease operating costs for venues, and make Seattle a leader amongst music and entertainment cities like Austin and LA.

I urge the committee to support this legislation.

Thank you, and I yield my time.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Next we got Adam Prairie, followed by Mario Abada.

Go ahead, Adam.

Star six.

Star, thank you.

SPEAKER_21

While we're waiting, Councilmember Rivera is now joining us.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

Adam, please feel free to press star six.

SPEAKER_21

Let's go on to the next person.

SPEAKER_20

All righty, we'll try again, Adam.

Mario, you're up next.

Go ahead, Adam.

SPEAKER_18

Hello.

Hello.

Thanks for taking my comments, counsel.

I'm Adam Prairie here, and I'm speaking in favor of passing this Music Venue Loading Zone program.

I'm a talent buyer at the Sunset Tavern in Ballard, and I've also played in local bands in Seattle for the last decade and a half.

Speaking with my venue hat on, I can say for sure that having the ability to reserve these parking loading spots will be a great help to our operations over the 340 plus shows that we average a year.

Every single one of those events will run more smoothly with access to this parking.

But speaking with my local musician hat on, I can't stress enough how amazing it would be to have access to reliable parking that's secure, that's close to the venue, and that makes loading in and out easier.

It's honestly the dream.

The reality is that it's musicians who are bringing folks out every night to each one of our neighborhoods, whether it's Ballard, Belltown, Capitol Hill.

And these folks are the ones that are buying frigging drinks at nearby bars, that meet with friends, that have dinner before attending the shows.

So let's pass this to make it easier for our local musicians to practice their craft in their city that has been and hopefully will will continue to be an amazing place for local music to flourish.

Thanks.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Next, we got Mario Abada, followed by Marshall Hugh.

And then to conclude in a virtual public comment, Jackson Long.

Mario, go ahead.

SPEAKER_10

Hello, this is Mario Abada.

I am a talent buyer at the Nectar Lounge in High Dive in Fremont.

And we find that parking for our musicians is often a constant struggle.

The current status quo system with the temporary no park permits, we find that if people decide to park in those areas anyway, even though there's no parking signs posted and a permit in place, some people have sort of figured out that oftentimes they aren't actually going to get ticketed and they figured out that, you know, the, the amount of time it takes to tow someone, people, people chance it.

And what will happen is you'll have a 60 foot tour bus, you know, come ready to park in their permitted zone, but unable to.

And, and so, you know, on a busy street, there's just about nothing more stressful.

There needs to be a better system.

And this will be a, the musician load zones would be a huge step in the right direction.

Please support this and I yield the rest of my time.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you, Mario.

Next, we got Marshall Hugh.

And then to conclude a virtual public comment, Jackson Long.

Marshall, go ahead.

Can you hear us, Marshall?

SPEAKER_16

Yes, I can.

I can.

Am I unmuted?

Okay, thank you so much.

Marshall, it's you?

Yep, singer in the Marshall Law Band, speaking from a musician's perspective.

This would be amazing to have because, you know, from an anecdotal perspective, one of our keyboard players one time, he's trying to rush to get his gear in, leaves his car for one minute and comes back and someone's ran off with his keyboard.

It's just safer.

In addition, you know, musicians are already pretty low on the financial totem pole.

And if you have to spend 20, 25 bucks parking there for the day, you know, it's taking a big chunk out of what you will make.

So hopefully y'all can create some more space for us, make life a little bit easier and we'll be able to keep the city cool.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

All right.

Next, and to conclude virtual public comment, we got Jackson Long.

Go ahead, Jackson.

SPEAKER_19

Good afternoon.

My name is Jackson Long.

I'm the production manager at KEXP.

I'm also a drummer, recording engineer, and former technician for Death Cab for Cutie and the Postal Service.

As the guy often transporting equipment, safely loading in gear and parking vehicles is often the most stressful part of a show day.

There's an unwritten rule when it comes to loading in equipment.

Someone always stays with the vehicle while gear is being loaded.

But what do you do if you're a solo performer or working alone?

Being able to park close to the venue within eyesight greatly reduces the stress and mitigates potential theft.

I commend the Music Commission Mayor Harrell and Committee Chair Sarah Nelson for their work on this legislation.

While live music is often cited as one of Seattle's most important cultural assets, the musicians doing the actual labor of getting equipment from point A to point B are typically left to fend for themselves.

Thank for street parking in a lot quickly eats into the slim margins of a gig, not to mention those times when the meter runs out in the middle of a show.

Transporting equipment and parking vehicles are what's required to make these shows happen.

There are really no alternatives.

This is important progressive legislation that recognizes the work required to produce live music in Seattle.

I urge the council to support this new curbside designation program.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

Council President, that concludes public comment.

SPEAKER_21

All right, thank you very much, everyone.

So moving right along with our agenda, that is the end of our public comment period, which is now closed.

Will the clerk please read item one into the record?

SPEAKER_20

Agenda item number one, council bill 120831, an ordinance relating to the West Seattle Junction parking and business improvement area, modifying the boundaries and amending ordinance 113326, as previously amended by ordinances 119539, 12050, 121758, and 125152, public hearing, discussion, and possible vote.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

So just to recap, business improvement areas, or BIAs, are funding mechanisms for business district revitalization and management.

With tax money collected directly from property owners, or in the case of the West Seattle Junction BIA, from local businesses, a BIA pays for ongoing improvements in a neighborhood.

And local stakeholders oversee and fund the maintenance, improvement, and promotion of their commercial district.

This legislation would modify the boundaries of the West Seattle Junction BIA, adding 32 ratepayers to the BIA, and the Office of Economic Development anticipates that the BIA assessments would increase by 8.2% or $490 million.

thousand dollars per year.

There would not be any change to the rates charged to existing rate payers.

The West Seattle Junction BIA was first established in 1987. Its current boundaries were established through Ordinance 124528. And Council Bill 120831 would implement the first change to the boundaries in 10 years.

So, RCW 3587A075 allows council to modify the boundaries of a BIA, expanding or contracting them after holding a public hearing.

And expansions must be adjacent to an existing boundary.

Notification of a public hearing must include adopting a resolution and mailing notice to all businesses, multifamily, residential, and mixed-use buildings within the existing and proposed BIA.

Council set today's public hearing when it passed resolution 32141 on August 6th, which gave 30 days notice of the hearing to make sure that everybody could learn about the boundary expansion and also plan to speak up about this matter before council.

So with that, as presiding officer, I'm now opening the public hearing on Council Bill 120831. Clerk, how many speakers are signed up to speak at the public hearing?

SPEAKER_20

Council President, we got one remote speaker and we have four in-person speakers.

SPEAKER_21

All right.

And I will note that just to be all official, Mr. Gustav, if you are still there and would like to add your comment officially to the public hearing, you're welcome to do so.

Per my usual practice, we're going to start with the people in person and provide two minutes to speak.

SPEAKER_20

All right.

First, we have Allison Herzog, followed by Stacy Woods.

SPEAKER_27

Hello, everyone.

Thanks for your time today.

My name is Allison Herzog, and I'm the president of the West Seattle Junction Association.

I'm also a former business owner.

I owned a business in the Junction BIA district for 13 years.

And I can just say, as an organization, we help with events, with beautification, with clean and safe programs.

And as everyone knows, West Seattle has grown.

The West Seattle Junction has grown.

And so this is a natural expoundry of our boundaries.

So we're expanding 10% just to include a couple streets over that are needing to benefit from our programming.

I think that's all I have.

Thank you.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Next, we got Stacey Woods, followed by Alex Zermanman.

And then to round it off, we got Danielle Havens.

Come on, Stacey.

SPEAKER_03

Hi, I'm Stacy Woods.

I work for the West Seattle Junction Association.

And to be honest, I didn't realize I was going to be public speaking.

So echo what Allison just said with regards to expanding the boundary to include some businesses that are outside the existing parameters that have come to us and asked to be a part of events and beautification efforts that we've created.

And currently, we are not able to allow them because they're not within the boundaries.

And this extension will allow them to participate in our events, which we are hopefully thrilled to have them join.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

Next, we got Alex Zimmerman, followed by Danielle Havens.

SPEAKER_05

My name, Alex Zimmerman.

Open.

Yeah, my name, Alex Zimmerman.

Also, Consul Nelson, you interrupt me in every meeting, and I'm a little bit tired from this.

So this look to me like a personal hate and harassment.

So when you don't stop in doing this, you just go for a long time.

And I'm very patient with you.

I will complain to government every time what is you interrupt me.

If you look in what has happened.

It's exactly what I did before for many people.

I will do this for you too.

See how my dirty, damn Nazi fascist junta.

It's exactly what's happened.

SPEAKER_21

That is your first warning that you are engaging in abusive language, which is officially disruptive behavior and against our rules.

SPEAKER_05

It's not language.

It's absolutely approved.

And I give you information, nine circle, 10 circle, 14. It's a personal what has come from you.

I don't understand this.

I spoke to different people.

Nobody touched me.

Why are you only doing this?

Honestly, I'm passionate with you for a long time because I like what is you give me chance after 18 trespasses for 1,500 days, you can give me chance to speak.

I'm very happy from this.

Yes, and I very appreciate you, so you make this decision.

So I don't want broke relationship between you and me.

I have different opinion.

People who have him, 100 people, 1,000 people, nobody talking like I'm talking.

Why?

Why you ignore one man who have different opinion?

And I doing everything legal.

And I have good example, President Trump.

He doing exactly like I doing, or I doing like he doing, word by word.

So please stop in this, or I will go to government and complain in every time.

Thank you very much.

Have a nice day.

SPEAKER_20

Thank you.

The last in-person public comment for the public hearing, Council President, is Danielle Havens.

SPEAKER_12

Hi, good afternoon.

I'm Danielle Havens, and I am here on behalf of Tina McLaughlin.

And Tina is the owner and operator of Club Pilates.

Club Pilates opened in January at 4722 Fauntleroy.

Tina was unable to be here today as she was assisting her sister who needed medical help.

But Tina is opposed to this expansion of the district.

She had considered moving into a property up on California, but the tax burden of that was excessive.

And then shortly after she was weighing it, the parking in the lots that had previously been free went to pay parking.

And so the benefits of it really seemed like they would not work for her and her small business.

She waited an additional three years to have the property that she ultimately moved into completed and to be able to open her business.

I am a member of this club, Pilates, and I feel like it's truly saved my life.

And it's made me feel more of a sense of community in West Seattle than I've ever had before.

Tina is trying to balance the management of her small business where she has 13 employees and is already paying a significant amount of rent.

Part of what she is paying for is the parking that is within the building that she is leasing from.

She signed a 10-year lease at this location under the belief that her tax rate would expand normally over that 10-year period, but not that there would be an expansion that was going to cost her substantially more and in a way that would require her to to her clients and members.

And so she is respectfully asking that this annexation not occur.

This expansion is going to put a financial burden on her small business and her members.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_20

That concludes the in-person public hearing commenters, and we have one remote.

Next, Ray.

SPEAKER_21

Ray Alva.

SPEAKER_08

Hello.

Hi.

My name is Ray Alva.

I am here on behalf of Molly Moon's Ice Cream.

Denise, unfortunately, couldn't be here.

She is our CSOO, but everyone in the company is very, very excited to join the West Seattle community.

I will be the shop manager over there, so I'm really excited to get involved.

I just feel like the BIA has a lot of values that are very similar to the values that we hold at Molly Moon, and community is something that's really, really important to us, and so we're excited to be a part of West Seattle Junction's and continue to grow with all of the other wonderful businesses that are there.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

And then finally, Andrew Gustavo will allow you to say your comments officially during the public comment if you're still there.

Okay, looks like he has already left the line.

All right, is that the end of our speakers?

SPEAKER_20

Yes, Council President, that concludes the public hearing.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

We've come to the end of the list of speakers for our public hearing, and so therefore public hearing is now closed.

All right.

Central staff, you're already at the table.

Thank you very much for being here.

I will simply, why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself, then I'll provide a couple comments, and then you can go ahead.

SPEAKER_09

Liz Schwitzen, Council Central staff.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

Okay, so at our meeting on August 8th, we had a presentation from OED on the citywide BIA program, and we also had a presentation from West Seattle Junction BIA Director Chris McKay.

And we heard public testimony from the directors, all in solidarity, wearing the same t-shirt.

The directors of BIAs across the city, from Mike Stewart of the Ballard Alliance to John Scholes of the Metropolitan Improvement Area, which is administered by the BIA, to Lisa Howard of the Alliance for Pioneer Square, all in strong support of this legislation.

So with that, Lish, please go ahead and if you would like to say some comments about the boundaries or any other specifics, please go ahead.

SPEAKER_09

I thought I would just share the map to remind you of the two areas that are being added to the BIA under this legislation.

It's one block on California Avenue Southwest at the north end of the business improvement area, and then a half block along Fauntleroy Avenue, or Fauntleroy Way Southwest in the southeast corner of the BIA.

And I'm happy to answer any questions.

You got a detailed presentation last time.

SPEAKER_21

Colleagues, are there any questions or comments?

All right.

Seeing none, I will I will simply say that it looks like we're ready for a vote today, and we need to suspend the rules to allow a vote on the same day that we have a public hearing.

So if there's no objection, the council rules will be suspended to allow the committee to vote on Council Bill 120831 on the same day the public hearing was held.

All right, hearing no objection, the rules are suspended and the committee now may vote.

I will simply, since there are no questions about the specifics of the proposal, I will simply say that this city without the business improvement areas and the assessments that property owners and businesses pay would not be the same Seattle that we know right now.

They were mandated with the The ability to provide what is sometimes referred to as supplemental services, but we have seen over and over again that those services, additional cleaning, security, and of course all of the events which enliven our business districts, all of those I would say are essential and really make this city what it is today.

So I always say that when the business districts come to us and ask to be renewed, or in this case, expanded to allow for more assessments to provide more services, I usually err on the side of saying, of course, that is fine with us.

But in any case, I strongly encourage my colleagues to support this legislation.

All right.

That said, I move that the committee recommend passage of Council Bill 120831. Is there a second?

Second.

Thank you.

It's been moved and seconded to pass Council Bill.

Are there further comments?

Yes, go ahead.

The chair of this neighborhood.

SPEAKER_07

Just a little old me over here.

Thank you, Madam Council President.

No.

So first off, let me just say that I totally acknowledge and appreciate and respect and I have endless empathy for the fact that not every small business that is directly impacted by the proposed expansion is going to support this kind of thing and that the impact that it has on their bottom line and their p and l that they're accountable profit loss margin it's going to have it's going to have other impacts and i'm mindful of that um i'm I'm committed to working with you.

I'm looking at the public commenter who spoke on behalf of her friend, the small business owner directly in the junction who spoke in opposition to this proposal here.

Right in front of you, ma'am, is my chief of staff, Elaine Coe.

And so we would love to connect with you to see if there's anything that we can do to help facilitate this.

And...

make it a soft landing, so to speak.

But I do know Chris and the West Seattle Junction BIA to be—well, Chris to be a great person leading this organization and that organization itself to provide profoundly impactful work and services on behalf of their member organizations, potentially including your friend.

and they I know they're interested in building community and expanding and So again, just I just want to acknowledge what I heard I've been paying very close attention to this end-to-end from inception to here.

We are today.

I Will say that is that is the first Opposition that and I checked with my staff, you know now I'm hearing but Your voice and your perspective matter.

And again, committed to doing whatever we can and helping to build community together.

And that said, I also am proud to support this today.

And colleagues, I urge you to do the same.

West Seattle Junction is a great place.

We previously bantered, Councilmember Rivera and I, about the great Husky Deli ice cream.

But it's not just ice cream, it's deli.

Also, I heard Molly Moon, someone from Molly Moon's public commenting earlier.

And my wife absolutely loves Molly Moon's ice cream.

I'm a fan as well, but I'm glad there's going to be another option there to supplement, not replace the great ice cream options that we already have in the junction.

And so we can all exist here, guys, is where I'm going.

But anyways, I'm proud to support this today and looking forward to continuing our partnership, all of you all, to do more.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

Council Member Rivera.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Council President.

And I would just want to underscore what Council Member Saka said.

And, you know, I've worked with the BIA, as I said, at the last meeting in the past.

And I know them to be very collaborative.

And they really watch out for the businesses in the junction.

So I am sure that they will be helpful in this capacity.

And I appreciate my colleague for...

you know acknowledging that you know some folks may not like um a piece of legislation only because they're having challenges and so our jobs up here is to make sure we're helping everyone who's having challenges and so we're doing things you know for as many people as possible and for them the folks that are having the particular challenges helping with that as well and being collaborators and connectors and so appreciate your working with the BIA at the junction to make sure that this particular business is also thriving because we want all our businesses all our small businesses to thrive and so I will be supporting this but know that I too care even though it's not my district I care about all of Seattle we I know I can say we all do and so thank you for coming today on behalf of your friend I hope their relative is fine.

And then also I look forward to hearing about the conversation on how we can, as a body, help.

So thank you.

Thank you, Council President.

And thank you, Council Member Saka, again.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you.

Actually, point of personal privilege, my FOMO is still going crazy, raging right now with love, love, love the Junction shirt.

Where's mine?

Anyways, thank you.

SPEAKER_21

All right.

All right.

I'll run enthusiasm for what we're doing here.

Okay.

Any other?

No other comments.

All right.

Will the clerk please call the roll?

SPEAKER_20

Councilmember Kettle.

Aye.

Councilmember Hollingsworth.

Yes.

Councilmember Rivera.

Aye.

Councilmember Saka.

Aye.

Chair Nelson.

SPEAKER_99

Aye.

SPEAKER_20

Five in favor, none opposed.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

The motion carries and the committee recommendation that council pass council bill 120831 will be sent to the September 24th, 2024 city council meeting.

All right.

Will the clerk please read item two into the record?

SPEAKER_20

Agenda item number two, Council Bill 120827, an ordinance relating to music venue zones and their use, establishing rules for parking and loading at music venue zones, and adding new sections 11.14.376, 11.23.425, and 11.72.2552, and amending sections 11.23120, 11.23.440, 11.30.040, and 11.31.121 of the Seattle Municipal Code, briefing, discussion, and possible vote.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

All right, the proposed legislation would authorize SDOT to designate curb space as a music venue zone parking space and issue permits to music venues that they can then allow the musicians to use when they are on premise.

And when we talk about venues, they must host live music and charge a fee for admission on at least two days a week.

At our August 8th meeting, we had a presentation from the curbside management team at SDOT.

They are at the table.

I will allow them the opportunity to introduce themselves.

And SDOT went through a history of previous attempts to solve for the problem of the lack of convenient, safe, and reliable parking for our musicians and crews.

So then also we did go through some of the history.

In 2014, as part of Seattle's City of Music Initiative under Resolution 31173 to support Seattle's music community and economy, Seattle initiated a pilot program to provide musician loading zones near five participating music venues.

But as you heard some of the public comment that today and last time, the pilot program wasn't ideal because it was voluntary, it lacked enforcement, and you couldn't park for the duration of the gig.

It was only for loading and unloading.

And since then, there's been sustained advocacy on the part of musicians, venues, and the Seattle Music Commission commissioners to come forward with a solution that will really work all around.

And I have to say thank you very, very much to SDOT and also to the Music Commission for working so closely together over the years.

So with that, I would ask you to just introduce yourselves and then I'll continue talking and see if there are any questions.

SPEAKER_06

Calvin Chow with Council Central South.

SPEAKER_26

Mike Kesti, Manager of Curbside Management for the Seattle Department of Transportation.

SPEAKER_00

Virginia Nademi, Curbside Management, Strategic Advisor with Festop.

SPEAKER_22

Scott Plooskelec, Nightlife Business Advocate in the Office of Economic Development and support for the Music Commission.

SPEAKER_21

Okay.

Well, I was going to describe what the program does, but since we've got the experts at the table, would you like to provide a summary?

SPEAKER_26

Sure, I'm happy to actually did a good job starting there with the history We provided a pretty detailed presentation at the last meeting The quick summary is the legislation allows us to do a couple basic things one is to create a use at the curb That is something that we can regulate that exists that we can enforce so a formal sign that is enforceable unlike the last situation where we had what was an advisory sign and The second is to allow us to put together a permit for use of that space at the curb so that music venues can apply for a permit and if they meet the conditions.

their permits for the folks using those spaces to load into park.

That's the general gist of what we're trying to accomplish here that was reflected in a lot of what you heard in public comment, I think, earlier in this meeting for an ability to allow folks, musicians and the venues, to really utilize the space adjacent to their venues a little more efficiently.

recognizing the work that we do at SDOT, managing the curb, we'll be working with the others on those blocks and in those areas to make sure we're thinking about everybody's needs.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you for that summary.

And you might have said this, but I understand that the annual fee would cost $250.

And it would authorize each venue to apply for up to three on-street spaces, but that would depend on the uses throughout the block and whether or not that's really doable and what their particular needs are.

And also that parking and loading is allowed 24 hours a day, seven days a week, as long as a valid permit is displayed in the vehicles.

So I must say that council, so that's the basic program.

I'll provide a little bit more background.

Council has provided SDOT with the authority to establish curb use zones, and this lives in the section of our municipal code, 1123440, zones four.

Things like taxicabs, official career console vehicles, moving or loading disabled persons, curb space parking including no parking zones, service parking, carpool parking, car share parking, food vehicles, vending units, and our restricted parking zone or RPZ program which exists in various parts all over the city.

And then of course during the pandemic, The city turned on a dime and allowed for streeteries to be built to sustain the business of restaurants during the pandemic.

And many people think that that has enlivened our business districts throughout the city.

So I mentioned this, and thank you, Cal, for including that in your memo, to note that we have allowed for prioritized parking and also to acknowledge that there is fierce competition for curbside space.

And during last meeting's discussion, I heard questions about taking up valuable space 24-7.

And one of our commenters did comment on the fact that we're not just talking about the hours of a show.

We're talking about the fact that, and I didn't realize this, musicians show up HOURS IN ADVANCE TO UNLOAD, AS DO OTHER CREW MEMBERS.

BUT FOLLOWING THAT DISCUSSION, I DID ASK S.2 TO MAKE SURE THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD CHAMBERS AND ALSO BIAs ACROSS THE CITY WERE AWARE OF THIS LEGISLATION.

SOMETIMES ONE IS SO IN THE WEEDS OF DEVELOPING A PROGRAM THAT WE It takes somebody else pushing to say, are you sure that folks know about this?

And in the intervening time, SDOT has gone into an extensive outreach project, if they hadn't already, they tried to contact a whole list of businesses and business districts, entities, et cetera, and that list.

But for here, it's many lines on an Excel spreadsheet long.

That outreach had been conducted.

So thank you very much for doing that.

And also, just to ensure that I want to point out what I think is really important to recognize, that just because this legislation authorizes SDOT to create this program and eventually issue these permits, it doesn't mean they will do so for all of the 33 or 32 venues that have been identified as currently meeting that criteria of hosting a live show two nights a week, and charging for admission.

So that is only the first step, meeting the criteria.

Then it is understood that SDOT will conduct the proper outreach and analysis of competing uses on that block.

But just to be sure, I have an amendment.

And so as the sponsor, I will move that amendment.

And then we can continue talking about this.

First, though, we have to move the actual legislation.

I move that the committee recommend passage of Council Bill 120827. Second.

Thank you very much.

It's been moved and seconded to confirm passage of Council Bill 120827. And I move that Amendment 1 to Council Bill 120827 and presented on the agenda be adopted.

Second.

Thank you very much.

It's been moved and seconded to adopt Amendment 1 as presented on the agenda.

Now, with all of that, Calvin, could you please explain what this amendment does?

SPEAKER_06

Sure, Councilmember.

Your amendment would add a new section to the legislation that directs the department to engage in adjoining property owners and businesses when they are implementing the music venue zones to make sure that they are balancing the needs of other local curb uses and access.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

Are there questions about this amendment?

SPEAKER_02

I have a question, Council President.

Thank you.

I'm wondering if, you know, while generally supportive, let me start there.

I know sometimes there are unintended consequences when we do things.

So is there a point in time in which we can reevaluate and just or get from SDOT an update on how the program is going to make sure we are not experiencing those unintended consequences?

SPEAKER_21

There is no, to my knowledge, point in the legislation right now where that reporting is required.

You're welcome to bring an amendment if you would like, or you can have on the record that you are asking and then bug them periodically for that information if you would like.

have it funneled through the Transportation Committee, whatever you prefer.

SPEAKER_02

I think I would like to just request SDOT to give updates on how this is going.

So if we're hearing that this isn't working for the adjoining businesses or the residents who are living nearby, that we can look at this again.

That is fair.

SPEAKER_26

Yeah, I'd say we're happy to provide that.

Presuming that council adopts the legislation, we'll need to go through a process to actually pull together the permit itself that will require some process.

So we're probably not issuing until later this year, early next year.

And then, yeah, happy to come back and share with you progress and how things are going.

If there are specific sticky blocks or venue locations or things like that that are proving challenging or not, I think we're happy to provide that information for you.

SPEAKER_02

That's terrific.

Thank you.

I would welcome that.

And I understand in some places it might be a little stickier than others.

And that's what I'm thinking about.

So thank you for that.

And I think that that satisfies my.

wanting to make sure we're giving the attention.

So I can follow up.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you.

And I'll note that as Chair of Economic Development, the last thing I want is a lot of negative impact on small businesses that I take it as my mission to represent and support.

So thank you.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Council President.

SPEAKER_21

I really appreciate that.

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Council President.

As the District 7 representative, there's a lot that's located within my district and so I definitely support the amendment because we have to have these conversations going on because the old idea of an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

And we've been doing a lot of this with my own office because these things are happening all the time regarding confusion and or disagreements related to parking.

I won't mention any specific, but it's an ongoing thing.

And so having this kind of dialogue between SDOT with the neighboring residents and businesses will be instrumental for a smooth implementation of the program.

Because at the end of the day, what we don't want is the pendulum to go the other way where, to your point, Council President, having businesses say, oh, we can't be whipsawed.

So this engagement by SDOT is going to be crucial.

And so thank you.

SPEAKER_02

I think you, go ahead.

May I say one more thing?

There are a number of amazing live music venues in the district I represent that I very much support.

And so would love to see something like this to help those venues.

And then there are neighboring businesses.

So I'm seeing where there might be things that we, I super appreciate that Estat will be, thank you, Council President, for bringing the amendment.

And I appreciate that Estat will be looking at making sure that the businesses and everybody's needs are taken care of, but super support live music, so thank you.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

Will the clerk please call the roll on the amendment?

SPEAKER_20

Councilmember Kettle?

Aye.

Councilmember Hollingsworth?

Yes.

Councilmember Rivera?

Aye.

Councilmember Saka?

Aye.

Chair Nelson?

Aye.

Five in favor, none opposed.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

The motion carries and Amendment 1 is adopted, and we now have the amended legislation before us.

First of all, we've given some information.

Are there any Okay, well, I think this merits some bloviating on my behalf by me.

But first, I will say that we talk a lot about supporting the creative economy, growing the creative economy.

But what does that really mean?

We live in a state where, per the Washington state constitution, we're not allowed to give monetary support directly to private interests, be they musicians or venues, et cetera.

sometimes the support that we're talking about is hearing feedback and then helping them through our policies.

And that's exactly what this legislation seeks to do.

And in fact, that is why we have commissions like the Music Commission, the Film Commission, to bring reality to policymakers so that we can help them.

So that is what this legislation seeks to do.

But don't take it from my don't take it from me, we heard some public comment earlier and I just wanted to read some of the emails that you might have received or might have just come to me.

So let's start first of all with the Music Commission and Jason Clackley sent this email.

And having listened to and being present for the last committee meeting, he's speaking directly to the parking impact issue.

And the commission notes in their letter, quote, as representatives from SDOT explained in their presentation, their approach is to tailor spaces according to the needs of the block in conversation with each venue and neighboring businesses.

If BIAs raise concerns or offer pushback, It should be noted whether they actually have venues in their area.

Music venues are an economic multiplier, increasing revenues for neighboring businesses and supporting industries.

As Seattle struggles to recover from the pandemic and bring life back to its urban core, supporting live music venues is an important strategy in cultivating a thriving arts ecosystem.

The Seattle Music Commission urges council to pass the music venue parking and loading zone permit legislation.

That is from the official voice of the music scene.

All right, here's one from Dave Dieterer saying, Dear City Council, this is Dave Dieterer, founding member of Seattle's multi-platinum selling two-time Grammy losing, How could we possibly have beaten Kurt Cobain and John Lennon, professional rock and roll group known as the presidents of the United States of America?

I've been engaged in issues related to the local political landscape around music in the past, and then has a whole paragraph talking about his engagement.

I currently play in four local bands around town and beyond.

Loading gear in and out of these venues is universally a tremendous hassle and creates hazards for both the artist and the community.

Aside from the obvious frustrations for artists of finding places to park and the risks of threat or theft as one takes multiple loads to and from a vehicle, Please consider the hazards to pedestrians, cyclists, and other motorists when vehicles inevitably are double parked, parked in crosswalks at corners, et cetera, to allow load in and load out of musical gear.

The world knows Seattle for a few things, coffee, software, jet airplanes, and music.

It seems the least we can do is meet the basic needs of those making this globally impactful music by facilitating safe and convenient access to load gear in and out of Seattle's world-famous clubs and concert halls.

That covers a lot of points, and I hadn't considered the impact to our Vision Zero goals.

All right, here's another one.

My name is Sean McKillop.

I'm the brand director of Rainier Beer and I support the music venue load zone legislation.

Before being tasked to reinvigorate Rainier Beer, I worked in music venues across Seattle.

Despite the role of indie venues in shaping Seattle's identity and culture for decades, the financial and logistical burden of hosting touring acts has fallen largely on independently owned venues.

Let's support our venues and artists with a simple, low-cost solution, venue load zones.

I'm of the opinion there's no reason Nashville should get more music tourism than Seattle.

Seattle has produced such a wide range of talent from Hendrix to Heart, Sir Mix-a-Lot to Macklemore to the whole grunge genre, Death Cab for Cutie and so much more.

Let's start that journey of marketing Seattle as a music city by passing venue load legislation.

As it, you know, and I would add, to market it as a music city where it's easy to find safe and convenient parking.

On and on and on.

I have emails going on and on and on.

We've heard from musicians themselves, venue owners, et cetera.

And I would just simply add my point that musicians and venues in this town need a break.

They've been through a lot.

And please support this legislation.

Yes.

Go ahead, Council Member Kettle.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Council President.

I didn't get my hand up early enough to speak.

And I was looking at the map and highlighting the District 7 pieces that I was referring to earlier.

One thing that strikes me with this, and I think it's important to state for the record, is the the uniqueness of Seattle.

One, I often talk about, you know, if you're at the waterfront or other parts of the city, you know, the water spaces, the bay, the lakes, the cut and the like, and then having the Cascades on one side and the Olympics on the other.

No other city has that.

And to add...

like the evergreen nature of our city, you know, the trees, the evergreen trees, and unique compared to other parts of the country.

I've lived across the United States.

But then also the native community.

Those things that make Seattle unique.

And I think, and I had my own version of Sean's email, and so I was going to highlight but you did so well, you know, from a music scene, and that is another thing that really separates us out, and as Sean notes about Nashville, you know, we can go toe for toe, and I think that's another thing, music is another thing that separates Seattle from other cities across the country, and it should be embraced as part of the package from when people come here, from near or far, whether they're coming from across Lake Washington or across the country.

And I think we should be promoting the music scene and as Sean noted in the marketing and the like, but we should do what we can to ensure the viability of the music scene here.

Because it is special.

And I feel it every time if I'm driving up I-5 and I crest a hill and all of a sudden Seattle's there.

And I hear one of the bands, as Sean noted, from the grunge genre.

And it's part of what Seattle is.

So we should be looking to support.

So thank you very much.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21

All right.

I'm not seeing any other questions or comments.

I will simply say it's been a long road.

And what a long, strange trip it's been.

Just kidding.

That's a really, whatever.

Anyway, you get that musical reference.

The point is, you've been at this for a long time.

And I think that your sustained work on this, I gave it a little push coming in at the final hour here.

But I think that we all agree that this is extremely important and took a lot of work.

And thank you very much for keeping your eye on the ball.

All right.

With that, will the clerk please call the roll that the committee recommend passage of Council Bill 120827.

SPEAKER_20

Council Member Kettle.

Aye.

Council Member Hollingsworth.

Yes.

Council Member Saka.

Aye.

Council Member Rivera.

SPEAKER_21

Aye.

SPEAKER_20

Chair Nelson.

Aye.

Five in favor, none opposed.

SPEAKER_21

Excellent, the motion carries and the committee recommendation that the council pass this bill will be considered for final consideration on September 24th.

Thank you very much and congratulations.

SPEAKER_26

Thanks for your support.

SPEAKER_21

Let's proceed to the next item on the agenda.

Clerk, can you please read agenda item three into the, is it three or four?

Three.

Three and four, that's right.

Three and four into the record.

SPEAKER_20

Agenda items number three and number four, appointment 03004, appointment of Denise Wells as member Civil Service Commission for a term to December 31st, 2024, and appointment 03005, reappointment of Denise Wells as member Civil Service Commission for a term to December 31st, 2027, briefing discussion and possible vote.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

I want to note that Denise Wells was planning on joining, but she is sick.

We are joined by folks that can represent her well.

Will the presenters please introduce yourselves?

SPEAKER_28

Thank you very much, Council President Nelson.

My name is Andrea Scheele.

I am the Executive Director of the Civil Service Commissions.

Sarah Butler, Operations and Policy Advisor, Civil Service Commissions.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

You're welcome to take it away and present what the commission is, et cetera.

SPEAKER_28

Thank you very much.

As you mentioned, unfortunately, Denise Wells, the candidate that I am here to introduce, was too ill to be here with us today, but I think she is watching on the Seattle channel.

I'll first provide a very fast overview of the work of the Civil Service Commission, and then I'll speak to an introduction of Denise Wells.

The city of Seattle established a civil service system in 1896 to ensure that hiring and promotion in the city is based on an employee's merit, that it's fair to employees, and provides value to taxpayers and users of city services.

Today, approximately 7,000 city employees are covered by the civil service system.

Most regular city employees are members of the civil service, and they are served by the commission.

Some classifications are exempt from the civil service, including appointed positions, elected positions, assistant city attorneys, and positions in the executive series, as well as the entire Seattle Public Library.

There is also a separate civil service system for sworn firefighters and police officers, and that is overseen by a separate commission.

The duties of the Civil Service Commission are to hear employee appeals of serious discipline and render decisions on those.

They only hear appeals of demotion, suspension, and termination.

And that is usually an alternative pathway for employees who are also represented by a union.

And they can choose whether to pursue the Civil Service Commission or their collective bargaining, grievance, and arbitration processes.

The commission also conducts political patronage investigations.

They are able to investigate whether hires and promotions comply with Seattle's merit-based hiring requirements.

The commission is also able to make recommendations on city personnel systems, including rules, policies, programs, and legislation related to the city's personnel system.

They make those recommendations on occasion to the mayor and or the city council.

The Civil Service Commission staff provides training to employee groups, departmental decision makers, HR units, and other audiences.

I'll turn now to the candidate.

Denise Wells is the candidate for civil service commissioner.

The position that you're considering her for today or you may consider her for today has been vacant since May.

And the term, it is a three-year term that actually is scheduled to end at the end of this year.

And so I very much appreciate you considering her for this short period and also for reappointment to the next term.

As executive director of the commission, I am pleased to speak in support of Ms. Wells for appointment to the position of commissioner.

The commission's work is grounded in the principles of integrity, equity, and accessibility, and these are values that Ms. Well has exemplified in her professional and personal conduct.

She recently retired after 18 years as a strategic advisor at the Seattle Center During her tenure, she gained a wealth of relevant experience and expertise, serving in key roles such as legislative liaison, public disclosure officer, privacy officer, and risk manager.

Her contributions as the Seattle Center's representative on many community boards related to transportation and safety were invaluable for our community, and she was a trusted and respected member of the director's executive team for many years.

In addition to Ms. Wells' impactful work at Seattle Center, her career history includes service to the city of Bellevue, the Seattle Animal Shelter, and the Seattle Human Services Department.

Throughout her career, she has consistently demonstrated intelligence, good judgment, and a deep commitment to public service.

These are qualities that align with the mission and values of the Civil Service Commission.

We at the commission are honored by Ms. Wells' interest in serving the city of Seattle as a commissioner even into retirement, and we are confident that her extensive expertise and deep knowledge of city operations make her well qualified for this role.

I wholeheartedly recommend Ms. Wells for appointment to the role.

I thank you all for your time and consideration, and I'm also happy to answer any questions that you have about the commission or about Ms. Wells.

SPEAKER_04

No questions for me.

SPEAKER_21

I have a question.

Ms. Wells has been serving since May.

SPEAKER_28

She has not been serving since May.

She has not served at all.

The position that we are seeking to fill has been vacant since May.

A commissioner named Charlene McMillan had to vacate the position for personal reasons.

SPEAKER_21

OK, got it.

Thank you very much for that clarification.

Colleagues, there are only three people on the Civil Service Commission.

There's one city appointment, there's one mayor appointment, and there's another that is employee elected.

There's a lot of power condensed in three positions, and they impact our city employees' lives in various ways.

And so this is an important and significant confirmation and piece of legislation before us.

And I poured over her agenda.

I mean, her appointment packet, and I was looking forward to being able to interact with her live, but I understand that it's not possible today.

I will say that upon seeing that she worked for years and years and years at the Seattle Center, I happened to have Director Foster in my office and just basically said, do you know this person?

And he spoke extremely highly of her dedication and passion.

It's clear from her history, having worked for so long but in various capacities, she knows government work pretty much inside and out, it seems like.

So I feel comfortable going forward with this.

And I invite any further questions or comments before we actually get to the meat of moving and voting.

All right.

Is there anything else that you would like to say?

SPEAKER_28

I really appreciate you sharing Director Foster's perspective.

That's nice to hear.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

Okay.

If there are no further questions, I move that the committee recommend confirmations of appointment 03004 and 03005. Is there a second?

SPEAKER_23

Second.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you.

It's been moved and seconded to confirm appointment 03004 and 03005. Will the clerk please call the roll?

SPEAKER_20

Councilmember Kettle.

Aye.

Councilmember Hollingsworth.

Yes.

Councilmember Saka.

Aye.

Councilmember Rivera.

Aye.

Chair Nelson.

Aye.

Five in favor, none opposed.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

The motion carries and the committee recommendation to confirm the appointments will be forwarded to the city council for final consideration on September 24th.

Thank you very much for coming today.

Thank you all for having us.

And congratulations, Ms. Wells.

All right, would you please read our last item into the record?

Of course.

SPEAKER_20

Agenda item number five, appointment 02930, appointment of Mina Hashemi as director of the Office of Intergovernmental Relations, briefing and discussion.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much.

While our folks are coming to the table, I just want to thank you very much for your patience.

You've been sitting back there for a long time.

Yay, you watched historic legislation get voted on.

But I just wanted to explain that it is my practice to finish business that we started previously in other committees.

And then the second priority is to get through faster things before spending time on longer things.

So thank you very much for being here.

I appreciate the answers to your questions.

And so before we get into the meat of your responses, I will let you introduce yourselves and then please proceed, Deputy Mayor, with your presentation or your introduction.

SPEAKER_24

Thank you so much, Council President, and very much appreciate you handling the substantive business first.

I also know many ice cream options in West Seattle now that I look forward to also pursuing.

We're here today to present Mina Hashemi as the mayor's nominee for director of the Office of Intergovernmental Relations.

Thank you, Council President Nelson and council members for hearing us today.

Our city's success is often tied to the relationship we have with the governments around us.

That includes regional, state, federal, tribal, and international governments.

our Office of Intergovernmental Relations plays a critical role in building and strengthening our relationships with these neighboring governments.

That allows us to tackle common issues more efficiently and to amplify our city's voice.

We couldn't be more excited to have you consider Mina Hashemi as Mayor Harrell's nominee for the Director of OIR.

There we go.

Thank you.

I understand each of you have had the opportunity to engage with Interim Director Hashemi over the past several months since she has joined the city.

She's been hard at work building relationships with each of you, with our city departments, and with representatives of other governments.

I know she's also been busy gearing up for the forthcoming state legislative session, including strategic planning on a refresh of the city's state legislative agenda.

Interim Director Hashemi brings extensive experience collaborating with the various levels of government.

She joins us after several years at King County, where she was a pivotal member of Executive Constantine's leadership team, fostering relationships with county council members and regional governments.

She also has strong ties with state legislators, having served as the executive director of the House Democratic Campaign Committee.

Her reputation as a collaborative problem solver preceded her when we were looking for our next director.

And we heard this as a consistent message and those who know her work.

She has a clear track record of navigating complex, tricky intergovernmental issues in a diplomatic way that brings diverse voices to the table, ensures everyone feels heard.

Director Hashemi also has broad community support.

Our team spoke with state legislators, tribal governments, representatives from business and labor associations, all of whom strongly supported her nomination.

Also, her staff at OIR, who had worked with her in her previous capacity at the county, could not have been more enthusiastic in supporting her as their next director.

She's a natural leader who excels at bridging political divides and finding common ground.

And as I have personally interviewed and worked with her, I am confident in her ability to steer OIR and our city towards success.

I'd like to say beyond her resume, her experience, her skills, I have found her to just be a strongly proactive person who seeks to create positive and tangible change for the betterment of our city, both its government and its people.

And I think you will find, as I have, that she does it with intelligence, with positivity, and with mutual respect for all.

Council members, I greatly appreciate your consideration of Mayor Harrell's nominee, and I know the mayor does as well.

With that, I'll turn things over to Meena for her introductory remarks.

SPEAKER_25

Thank you.

Thank you Deputy Mayor Wong for your kind words and your confidence in me.

And good afternoon Council President Nelson and members of the committee.

Thank you for the opportunity to be here today and for your consideration of my appointment as Director of the Office of Intergovernmental Relations.

I also want to thank you for your support for me personally over these last four months, as well as your support for the team at OIR and our diverse work portfolios.

I hope in the short time that you have known me, I've also gained your trust and your confidence.

I'm so excited about this position.

It's been an honor and a privilege to serve as interim director and to use my passion and expertise to lead an incredible team of talented staff, build relationships with the new council, and to serve Mayor Harrell and our departments as we work together to produce results for our city.

While I've done this type of work for a while, it's rewarding to finally serve the people of the Seattle, the city that I call home, in District 3. I've had the opportunity directly to serve elected officials at the state, regional, and local level, working directly for an executive and a legislative body.

In each role, I've gained valuable perspective and demonstrated my ability to forge relationships with people from diverse regions, backgrounds, and political ideologies.

I'm excited to use this experience to help the council achieve your policy goals.

We all know that the city is most effective when we are regular and collaborative participants in conversations with other governments.

through many avenues, including on-the-ground lobbying, effective communication about the city's priorities, organized and compelling funding asks, and regular engagement.

OAR plays such an important role building and stewarding positive relationships on behalf of the city and connecting us with government partners at the regional, state, federal, tribal, and international level.

and our work spans every department in the city.

But we can only be successful when we have a focused, organized agenda and plan, the right team in place, and strong relationships and understanding of our external partners.

Most recently, in my role at King County, I was also a stakeholder of OIR.

So I knew coming in that I had a talented staff, some of whom have served multiple administrations.

So it's been a matter of how we organize and focus moving forward on issues that are important to the city's needs and how we effectively communicate with our government partners.

My vision for OIR is action-oriented, so it was important to hit the ground running on day one.

In the four months that I've been here, I focused on setting the city up for more success in the 2025 legislative session, by working closely with the council and the executive to redesign the city-state legislative agenda to a shorter and more concise document.

This coupled with earlier engagement with legislators and stakeholders this fall to find shared alignment will be a key component to our success next session.

I've also put a heavy emphasis on OIR's critical role identifying funding solutions to address our city's budget crisis.

I've begun meeting with partners at CBO, Innovation and Performance, and across departments to understand the grant making process and identify system improvements to make sure we're seeking more opportunities for funding and delivering compelling asks.

Finally, under my leadership, OIR is talking more frequently with regional partners and seeking opportunities to better coordinate on state and federal asks and policy development.

and implementation at the regional level.

As director of OIR, I will always fight for Seattle to have a seat at the table.

And you can count on OIR for fierce advocacy, open communication, transparency, and a deep understanding and respect for the intricacies of this city and our elected officials, as well as our diverse government partners.

I'm very grateful for Council's collaboration as we work as one Seattle.

And I want to thank you again for your time today and your consideration of my appointment.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much for that introduction and for letting us know a little bit more about yourself that's not covered in these responses to questions.

I would like to now open it up to see if my colleagues have any comments or questions.

Council Member Hollingsworth.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you, Council President.

I'll just say I'll be really brief.

Had the chance to meet with you and talk and really excited about the work that we're going to do together.

And I don't want to...

I will promote, but you do live in District 3, so we won't ask you who your favorite council member is, but just playing.

But I'm looking forward to all the work that we're doing, and I really appreciate the time that you spent with our office, and I'm assuming other people to ask us, like, hey, what are our priorities are, and how can we help integrate those with city departments and the executive and all the pieces that, you know, go into that.

the legislative sausage making that will happen, you know, soon in January.

So just want to thank you and looking forward to the work that we'll do.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_25

Likewise.

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21

Council Member Saka.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you, Madam Council President.

And thank you, Director Asimi, for being here.

A terrific level of engagement and initial collaboration that I've had directly with you, that we've had together in our respective offices.

And yeah, also excited to partner together.

Let us continue these motions, but I do I really appreciate the initial collaboration and willingness to partner together to achieve our shared goals and so many things.

So this is a really important role, I think.

One of the most important of the 40-something executive departments, just because it kind of highlights the importance of relationships.

relationship building, maintenance, and the potential power that can unlock to achieve any number of things.

And also this role is, one could make the valid argument that this role is sort of a mini Secretary of State, if you will.

You are principally responsible for directly engaging and representing the city's interests with other governments.

And so because of the strong diplomatic overlay, I heard Deputy Mayor Wong talk about diplomacy and teeing this up today.

Given the diplomatic overlay, I would just be curious to better understand your approach, generally speaking, to diplomacy.

SPEAKER_25

Thank you for the question, Councilmember.

You know, I appreciate that.

I appreciate the comparison to a secretary of state.

I think that my general approach has always been to be a consensus builder.

And so the way that I approach that is to make myself available.

actively listen and try to come from a place of yes.

So I think throughout my career, I've had the benefit of working for a lot of different types of elected officials from all over the state and different ideologies.

And it's helped me really understand what sort of drives people.

And again, you know, I just try to really focus on listening and building consensus.

SPEAKER_07

That's great.

Listening starts with listening and understanding people's interests is critically important because sometimes we all get hung up on, oh, I don't like this word on a paper or this...

But if you take a step back and understand people's underlying concerns, you can only do that really from listening.

So anyway, yeah, great answer.

My second and final question for now is, so you've been enrolled now on an interim basis for I guess almost four months now, which is great.

Do you have any initial observations In terms of the work you and the OIR team does, and with respect to potential opportunities for launching new strategic initiatives, you shared your vision earlier, which is great.

But are there any...

potential strategic initiatives that you're thinking of in this role.

You'd be working on behalf of to help enact the policy agenda of our mayor and this council.

But you have a lot of operational flexibility to do exactly that.

But yeah, do you have any initial observations based on your four months here on any potential strategic initiatives, systems reform to help the team do better and do more?

SPEAKER_25

Sure.

Thank you for the question.

As I said, I was a stakeholder of OIR before I came in.

So I had the opportunity to really observe the team.

And I knew that we had a strong team coming in.

So I focused my time on identifying system improvements.

I think one of the biggest challenges that we're facing and also opportunities is back to the budget crisis.

And so Seattle has already done a very good job at applying for and being competitive with state and federal grants.

But there's always room for improvement.

And one place that I've really been focusing is on developing some systems that are cross-departmental and some systems with our innovation and performance team.

We've been looking at some potential solutions for how departments can work better and more effectively together.

And OIR really has a strong role in developing compelling cases.

and maintaining really positive relationships with our elected officials at the state and federal level so that we understand their priorities and we can find alignment with the city's needs.

Another area that I touched on was the state legislative agenda.

I think that before I came to Seattle, as well as in my conversations since I've been here, What I've learned is that we could just be more clear and concise in our communication with legislators about the city's needs.

And so we've spent a lot of time focusing on how we can improve the state legislative agenda process.

And we've been so grateful for council's willingness to engage with us on that and collaborate.

SPEAKER_07

Thank you.

No further questions.

SPEAKER_21

Just to follow up on that particular point, that was one of my banging my fist on the table demands when I started was to shorten that legislative agenda.

Because colleagues, you might remember it was 16 pages long.

And it just read like a wish list of all the good things we want.

And staffers can't read that, legislators can't, etc.

And this is a tool.

that you give somebody as you're passing them in the hall, they allocate 15 minutes per meeting if you're lucky, et cetera.

So I'm really glad that that is a priority.

Council Member Kettle.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you, Council President.

Welcome.

I appreciate the opportunity to ask questions and to look to approve you as the director.

I do have two questions and it kind of goes to your role in developing the city state legislative agenda and really promoting our legislative priorities in a one Seattle way.

deputy mayor and I'm thinking about how we can do this better and and move forward and to use as like a Case study if you will or a subject area as the chair of the Public Safety Committee It's such an important issue as we see right now with the race for Olympia if you will and with our strategic framework plan a key and is engaging the and in actuality, potentially the federal too, but really the county and state on public safety issues, because for example, the county has public safety and public health responsibilities.

And then on the state side, they have like mental health, which is so key.

I've said many times, if we were number two, like our dogs were last year in college football and mental health spending over the last decade, the capacity that would equate to would have such a dramatic impact on our, public safety posture because, as I've said many times, you can't succeed in public safety without succeeding in public health.

And so we need to engage on these pieces.

And with the RCW, there's been different things with the laws and updating on a whole host of public safety issues.

And then to bring those two together, one of them is the Blake decision.

And then there's the Blake fix.

And the Blake fix basically took an issue at the felony county level and then pushed it to a misdemeanor municipal level.

And I haven't seen a lot of follow-on pieces to kind of make that transition better because all of a sudden we have that responsibility.

And obviously we're working at, including right now in council, And so we need to be working these issues.

And that's something that has both a county and a state issue.

And I just thought to ask, based on setting the agenda and how to work it and make it more efficient and make it more effective, if you have any thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_25

Sure, thank you, council member.

I know this is a very important issue to the council as well as to your constituents and the residents in Seattle.

And so it's been very helpful to hear from all the council members directly in our meet and greets about the issues that are important.

This is an important issue to other legislators and stakeholders around the state.

And so OIR's job this fall is to coordinate with these other interested parties to sort of develop a strategy and also find ways that Seattle can be helpful in achieving our shared goals.

Specifically around these issues, I mentioned we've been seeking to coordinate more with King County and to open up more communication.

and sort of find that shared alignment.

They're also going through their legislative goal setting right now too.

But there's certainly a group that we'll be coordinating with as we approach the session.

Seattle obviously has our own unique needs and priorities.

So while there will be some coordination, our team is prepared to work on council interests, sort of regardless of the county's position.

But legislative committee days is late this year.

It's in December.

That's the time when the legislature comes together to set their own agendas.

And that's when we'll know the final committee makeup.

So we're not waiting for that to happen to start talking about these priorities, but that will be a critical piece of the timeline.

So you can expect to hear from OIR throughout the fall.

with updates on that.

And then, of course, as long as you'll have us, we would like to continue our weekly briefings with council to give you and the public updates on these pieces of legislation as well as offering check-ins with your offices individually on your personal priorities.

SPEAKER_04

Great, thank you.

We have that same responsibility.

We did have a meeting on the King County Jail discussion with a number of county representatives.

One was missing, my counterpart on the King County Council Committee Chair.

And I did meet with him, so I need to meet with him on a regular basis too.

So as I asked that question, I'm reminded that we also have our responsibilities to do that kind of engagement as well, which I think would be helpful in terms of what you're looking to do in your role.

The other question I have comes from my interest in international affairs and my nearly decade on the World Affairs Council Board and engaging in that way with the international community here.

It's not been particularly strong as it could be.

I mean, this is overall.

I think we could do more.

I think it's on an upswing.

I've met with the Council General of India, South Korea last week at an event.

I met with the representative from Taiwan.

These things happen partly because of my own interests.

And I just think maybe I know we have the commission, but what can we do to better facilitate the linking of Seattle to the world and then the world back to Seattle?

SPEAKER_25

Thank you.

I appreciate the question.

And we've appreciated your engagement with the International Affairs Program.

You know, we've got a director who is...

We've got two positions in that portfolio, and we...

There's certainly more that we could do with our sister cities.

It's a big body of work to the point that I think that we have a moratorium on accepting more sister cities.

But our team has been talking about ways that we can engage our sister cities next year, especially now that folks are back in person.

It's been a while since we've actually been able to bring folks in and do some networking.

And so we're looking at some opportunities for more in-person events next year.

especially given that there will be some budget challenges that might make it more difficult for us to do international travel.

We're trying to look at ways to find ways to do that here at home.

I would welcome your ideas and feedback and probably will be reaching out very soon to set up some time to meet with you and hear some of your ideas too.

SPEAKER_04

Thank you.

I'm a little dismayed that we can't have a sister city in England like Manchester.

The fact that I'm first generation with parents from in between Liverpool and Manchester had nothing to do with that question, so let's strike it from the record.

Let's strike it from the record.

All right.

Thank you, Council President.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you.

I have a question.

I can go after you.

One thing that you noted in your comments and also in your response to the written questions is one of the greatest challenges and opportunities is getting Seattle money for our infrastructure projects.

And I completely agree.

And I have three staffers in my office who all worked in Olympia.

And they remind me that the capital budget is one of the most bipartisan things that Olympia does and that comes out of Olympia.

And so therefore, it's important to really have relationships with people across the aisle.

And the first question that you received does say, how can you bring your experience to bear on the need to work with both parties?

And I note that in one of the paragraphs, you say, I've worked closely and effectively with members of the House leadership, as well as freshmen from urban and rural districts, and members who identify as progressives, as well as members who identify as moderates, period.

And so I'm really hoping that you've also had experience working with Republicans and conservatives, because that's really going to be important for getting us the dollars.

So can you speak a little bit to that?

SPEAKER_25

Sure, sure.

Thank you.

Since the time that I've been with the House Democrats, I served at King County for several years, and I pride myself on the experience that I earned there working with both Democrats and Republicans on the county council.

There was a number of challenges that the county was facing that it was important that we were hearing from both members or members from both parties.

And so there were multiple examples of times that I worked with the Republican council members help them get their legislation through the council and to gain the executive support, as well as working with them to gain their support of the executive's policy.

So again, I think it comes back to being a consensus builder and making really compelling asks.

I can tell you from time in Olympia, sometimes it's hard to even get a meeting with Republicans when you're representing the city or King County, but it certainly never stopped our team.

And so we are very persistent.

And I think that the relationships that we have with the key members of the budget committees will go a really long way for us this session.

So I'm confident that my team and I have the right relationships to to champions Seattle's capital needs.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you for that.

I forget sometimes that the county is still partisan, right?

They run nonpartisan, but they are members of both parties.

OK, we have always been nonpartisan in the city of Seattle.

And you're absolutely right that we have a reputation to fight, in a way, in Olympia.

And we need to, by that I mean, sometimes our reputation precedes us as being not necessarily collaborative across the board, across the ideological board, and also when it comes to asking for resources.

So I really appreciate that response.

So thank you very much.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you.

SPEAKER_21

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_02

Thank you, Council President Mina.

Thank you for taking the time a few weeks ago to meet and you answered a lot of my questions there.

I really enjoyed our conversation.

So I wanted to say that for the record.

And like Council Member Kettle, there's some things that Council Member kettle raise that I will raise as well.

But just the things that are important in terms of Seattle and Olympia are things in the education space.

Obviously, we know that Seattle Public Schools is struggling.

They might have to close some schools.

Our constituents are very upset about that.

So this is something I really care about.

So working on that.

Then in the housing and homelessness space, obviously, affordable housing is huge in Seattle.

We know we have a lot of folks that are unhoused and we're trying very desperately and we just passed a housing levy.

But we know it's just no matter how much we raise, it's not enough.

And we want to make sure that we're getting resources from olympia as well and then council member kettle raised this in the you know public health in the mental health space particularly again with children making sure that we have resources to add to ours so we can robustly meet these needs and um uh you know the the fighter i don't I don't mind that image, Council President.

I'm scrappy, I'm from a rough neighborhood and you had to be scrappy and so I'm okay with that, but I'm also very collaborative and we know that you can't just be fighting, that you have to work together and there's a lot of compromise involved when you are trying to get something done for the city.

And so I very much appreciate all your experience in this space.

It is really of paramount importance to be collaborative.

And we know that there are a lot of needs, competing needs with other cities, et cetera.

So we really need someone who's going to be laser focused as well as very collaborative and willing to compromise where necessary, but not in other instances.

It's a balancing act.

And so very much appreciate all your experience in that realm.

So thank you.

SPEAKER_25

Thank you, Council Member.

SPEAKER_21

So let's get to the elephant in the room.

Okay, maybe it's only an elephant to me, and that's not a partisan comment.

So you report to the mayor.

You will be the head of one of the executive departments.

At the same time, it's always been the case that the director of OIR also represents the policy positions of council.

And not only is that difficult, two branches of government, now you've got nine council members to serve as well.

And there were some questions that aimed to get at this in here, but have you ever had an experience where, let's not be hypothetical, We've already talked about some public safety things.

Council member Saka has expressed interest in having some law changed around another public safety item in there.

Now, what will happen if there is a bill and the mayor has one position and council has expressed or a lot of council members have expressed a difference?

I understand who you really have to work for, but how can you also at the same time help us as you note in your response?

SPEAKER_25

Thank you, council member or council president.

OIR takes our very unique role of reporting to the mayor and the council very seriously.

Throughout our history, there have been examples of times where the executive and either the collective council or an individual council member have had differing views.

And so it's something that the team at OIR thinks about a lot and we talk about a lot.

I see OIR's role as providing avenues for our elected officials to express their views, whether they are aligned or differing.

So our official legislative agenda is a document that both the council and the mayor have sort of agreed upon.

but that's not the only legislation and policy that our team work on in Olympia.

And so we're still available to sign in on bills and also have conversations even if they don't make the agenda.

Furthermore, if there's a piece of legislation that just one council member is supporting or maybe a few, Even if it's not an official policy of the city of Seattle, our team wants to make sure that any representatives from the city are well positioned and prepared to provide effective testimony.

So whether that's sitting with you and helping you write your testimony or role-playing testimony, preparing letters in opposition or support, were available to do all of that.

And to illustrate that with a couple examples, last session when Council Member Wu joined, the legislative agenda was already sort of set.

And so she expressed interest in supporting the historic preservation bill.

And so our team worked with her to help prepare some comment and testimony on that.

I think another unique example is the AWC, which stands for the Association of Washington Cities, to which Seattle is a member.

Council members Strauss and Morales are the council's representatives there.

So they often have to be prepared to speak on issues that are AWC priorities, but not necessarily priorities of the city of Seattle.

So we take a lot of pride in being very responsive to council and making sure that you've got what you need during the legislative session.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you.

I'll note that because our legislative agenda was so long and contained so much that I abstained the past two times because there were things in there that I did not agree with, and I didn't want to have my name on a piece of legislation endorsing a 16-page document that I didn't fully agree with.

So I appreciate differences of opinion.

And some of the things that I can think of is if there is—and also— The legislative agenda is simply a template.

It's a guide.

Because things come up all the time in Olympia.

You have no idea what bills are going to be live.

And so therefore, you spend a lot of time on things that don't even see the print.

You know what I mean?

So I can just anticipate that what I would all express, that if something is coming up and the executive has a position on a live bill that we really didn't see coming, When you provide the briefings on Monday mornings, if you could just be articulate about that, be transparent about the position.

And then if there are council members that do not agree, if you are open to just letting them know when there will be a hearing and when they might have the opportunity to express their position, at least we kind of know where the differences lie.

That would be really helpful.

SPEAKER_25

Sure.

Yes.

Yes.

And I'll add that the software that we use to track legislation, we do have the ability to keep an eye on individual pieces of policy in real time.

So we can absolutely commit to working with you to make sure that you've got that information.

Got it.

SPEAKER_21

And I will note for my colleagues that every single department has a legislative agenda too.

So you are some, you're tracking a lot more than we actually know right now.

So I do want to acknowledge that.

Okay, are there any other questions?

Okay, seeing none, thank you so much for your time here.

And we will, this is not, we're not voting obviously today.

We will consider your appointment and a possible vote at the council meeting, no, at the committee meeting on the 16th, if I'm not mistaken.

Can you please confirm that?

SPEAKER_20

Yes, that's confirmed.

The possible vote will be this upcoming Monday, 9.30 a.m.

in the Special Governance Accountability and Economic Development Committee.

SPEAKER_21

Thank you very much for your time.

Thank you, Council President.

SPEAKER_25

Thank you, Council Members.

SPEAKER_21

If there is no other business, this meeting is adjourned at 3.51.

Thank you very much.